The £50K Hyundai - A tough sell?

[Ari]

Surely, surely they won't sell a single one of these in the UK (beyond pre-registering and offering as a secondhand car at 50% of list)?

http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/genesis

Next year's minicab!

[Ari]

snapdragon69 said:

We have a black one at work - it looks superb from any angle. A real head-turner and everyone stares at it.
The interior looks like a Lexus though - nothing special.
If it was £29k it would sell well.

Wow, really? I'd love to know the rationale behind whoever decided that was the best way to part with £50,000!

[Ari]

MysteryLemon said:

Stick an Audi badge on it and a diesel lump under the bonnet and it would sell bucket loads.

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

[Ari]

HTP99 said:

Ari said:

snapdragon69 said:

We have a black one at work - it looks superb from any angle. A real head-turner and everyone stares at it.
The interior looks like a Lexus though - nothing special.
If it was £29k it would sell well.

Wow, really? I'd love to know the rationale behind whoever decided that was the best way to part with £50,000!

Probably works for the Council.

[Ari]

MysteryLemon said:

Ari said:

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

You think people are buying an audi for the level of quality, detailing and finish?

Yes I do. I know Internet bores like to drone on and on 'knowingly' on here about how people are 'only buying the badge' and how a Ford Mondeo is exactly the same as an Audi A4 apart from the dash plastic but it's nonsense.

Audis are genuinely nice cars that, in particular, are beautifully finished. That's why they're popular, not because people go boss eyed at the badge.

If it were as easy as running a flash marketing campaign every manufacturer would be doing it, why wouldn't they?

[Ari]

Fittster said:

Ari said:

MysteryLemon said:

Stick an Audi badge on it and a diesel lump under the bonnet and it would sell bucket loads.

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

Why do you think reducing the quality levels of the Hyundai would help with sales?

Yeah, brilliant.

[Ari]

balls-out said:

Volume sales are probably not expected nor the point.
You have start somewhere, and Lexus has proved that establish brands can be challenged.

Lexus had the brand and the quality/finish though. They did it properly.

They didn't just bring out a great big Toyota and stick a whopping great price ticket on it.

[Ari]

Andy665 said:

Going by your own rationale if the Genesis is as well finished as an Audi then you believe it will sell in numbers comparable to the equivalent Audi - we both know that it won't therefore there has to be badge appeal - nothing wrong with it but sayng that people do not buy a badge is extremely short sighted

I've obviously not made my point very well.

Yes of course the badge has appeal, but only if it is backed up by the product.

So yes, if Hyundai build all their cars to the same standards as Audi (finish, quality, engineering, longetivy etc etc) and then market it correctly they will end up as a premium product. Look at Skoda, who have made huge gains by upping the quality of their product.

The point is, despite what the Internet bores like to insist, you cannot just wake up one day and announce that your car range is a premium product with a prestige badge via a flash marketing campaign and expect people to buy that.

An Audi has cachet as a premium product, because, guess what, it's a premium product. Not because 'oh everyone just gets taken in by the badge'.

It only works that way on Internet forums by people who perpetually regurgitate nonsense (see also 'all manual Mercedes have awful gearboxes, all Bentleys are driven by footballers, the BMW 5 Series is a reps car' etc etc etc).

[Ari]

Howard- said:

Ari said:

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

No, 95% of Audi buyers couldn't give a shat about any of that.

Ok, for the sake of argument, lets say you're right.

Why?

Could it be because Audi is seen as an expensive well finished high quality prestige car?

And could that be because an Audi is an expensive well finished prestige high quality car?

After all, if it really is as so many like to suggest 'just the badge', why does the Audi badge have the kudos and the Ford badge doesn't?

Ford made a big push a couple of years ago for the Mondeo to be seen as a prestige Audi A4 alternative (based mainly around the fact that you could suddenly option it with nappa leather). And god knows, the list prices are high enough to be 'in the zone'. It was a joke, you can't just acquire high quality status with a bit of leather and an ad campaign.

So even if, as you suggest, 95% of Audi buyers are buying them 'just for the badge', the badge still has to stand for something, the engineering still has to be behind it, otherwise 'the badge' doesn't become a respected and coveted status symbol.

Just ask Ford.

[Ari]

DoctorX said:

Ari said:

Howard- said:

Ari said:

You don't think it might need Audi levels of quality, detailing and finish too..?

No, 95% of Audi buyers couldn't give a shat about any of that.

Ok, for the sake of argument, lets say you're right.

Why?

Could it be because Audi is seen as an expensive well finished high quality prestige car?

And could that be because an Audi is an expensive well finished prestige high quality car?

After all, if it really is as so many like to suggest 'just the badge', why does the Audi badge have the kudos and the Ford badge doesn't?

Ford made a big push a couple of years ago for the Mondeo to be seen as a prestige Audi A4 alternative (based mainly around the fact that you could suddenly option it with nappa leather). And god knows, the list prices are high enough to be 'in the zone'. It was a joke, you can't just acquire high quality status with a bit of leather and an ad campaign.

So even if, as you suggest, 95% of Audi buyers are buying them 'just for the badge', the badge still has to stand for something, the engineering still has to be behind it, otherwise 'the badge' doesn't become a respected and coveted status symbol.

Just ask Ford.

I tend to agree but at the end of the day they are seen as an aspirational car and people want to be seen driving them. I suspect this would be the case if the plastics came from a Christmas cracker.

Ok, going round in circles a bit here but - why is Audi an aspirational car and a Hyundai isn't? Do you believe the four rings have some mystical hypnotic effect, or could it be something else, like, I don't know, an Audi is a very stylish well put together high quality car?

If you really drill down to what is aspirational these days, in the main it is wanting to be seen as rich and successful. Rich successful people tend to wear nice clothes, quality watches, cars of a high standard (with the exception of the famed PH Yorkshireman millionaire that everyone knows who drives a shagged out Vauxhall Cavalier of course).

Thus the wannabe upwardly mobile aspire to those things so they can be seen (they believe) in the same light.

So we come back to the same thing, even if (as the PH masses seem so very desperate to believe) the ONLY reason for someone choosing an Audi is because it is a status symbol, it still has to be a desirable high quality product to become that status symbol in the first place.

If that weren't the case every manufacturer would double their prices and run an ad campaign insisting that they were now the aspirational choice and, according to PH folklore about why people buy Audis, have the world beating a path to their door.

[Ari]

Toaster Pilot said:

Ari said:

Surely, surely they won't sell a single one of these in the UK (beyond pre-registering and offering as a secondhand car at 50% of list)?

http://www.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/genesis

Next year's minicab!

I hate PH sometimes - this car has been mentioned loads in threads about Hyundai in the past "why don't they bring this over from the US" etc yet when they actually do we get "nobody's going to buy this are they?"

Make your minds up!

You missed out a rather important point there. No one is going to buy it for fifty grand!

[Ari]

Ten Four said:

I'm sorry but I can't let this slide.
Mate has an Audi A4 2009 1.8T. The interior feels mass produced and very generic but then again it is a mass produced "luxury car". He's already been through one gearbox and he isn't a car person, (aka doesn't drive hard) at 65k kms - had to shell out 8k (AUD) as was outside warranty period. As for longevity - second hand germans older than 7 years have crap resale and everyone is scared of them because they break.

Hyundai / Kia offer 7 year new car warranty in Aus.

So if we can find one broken car from every manufacturer we can prove they're all crap!

Disagree entirely about residuals.

[Ari]

thelawnet said:

To be clear, while residuals might be better on a mid-market saloon for German vs 'mass-market' brands, the residuals on German full-size luxury cars is bloody terrible. A £60k 7-series is easily £20k after 3 years.

How much do you think a £50K Hyundai will be after three years..?

[Ari]

Howard- said:

Considering I don't think the A3/A4 are significantly better-built than any other mainstream car that isn't French, I'd suggest it's probably the former.


Platform sharing is a fantastic thing but when you've essentially got Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, and Audi all sharing most things bar a few superficial soft-touch interior plastic coatings, whilst selling at vastly different price points, something's gotta give.



And before anyone asks, no I don't think I wouldn't ever buy a Hyundai. But I wouldn't ever consider buying an Audi either, unless its name began with S or RS.

Couldn't agree more that Hyundai and Kia have upped their game - what they've achieved is hugely impressive.

They're not premium cars though.

[Ari]

WinstonWolf said:

Ari said:

Howard- said:

Considering I don't think the A3/A4 are significantly better-built than any other mainstream car that isn't French, I'd suggest it's probably the former.


Platform sharing is a fantastic thing but when you've essentially got Skoda, Seat, Volkswagen, and Audi all sharing most things bar a few superficial soft-touch interior plastic coatings, whilst selling at vastly different price points, something's gotta give.



And before anyone asks, no I don't think I wouldn't ever buy a Hyundai. But I wouldn't ever consider buying an Audi either, unless its name began with S or RS.

Couldn't agree more that Hyundai and Kia have upped their game - what they've achieved is hugely impressive.

They're not premium cars though.

They're very good for what they are, the warranty is superb. If you're not bothered by the driving experience and just want to get about they're great.

Again, absolutely agree. Thing is though, most people that simply want a tool to get from A to B with minimum fuss and maximum warranty don't throw fifty grand at it!

Which is kinda where we came in: £50K Hyundai - tough sell!

[Ari]

thelawnet said:

Ari said:

How much do you think a £50K Hyundai will be after three years..?

Well you won't lose as much as on a £70k Merc, I bet.

Plus the mechanical reliability and long warranty will help compared with buying a just-out-of-warranty complex German saloon.

How about a £50K Merc...

[Ari]

mat205125 said:

Audi don't even have that IMO. They trade on the perception, and a reputation for having had that many years ago

Well actually they don't, but hey...