Starter Track Car (yes this is another what car thread)

[maurauth]

Hi all, I'm looking to get into track days etc

I'd love to track the SLK but couldn't afford to repair any damage as it's my P&J and in pristine condition.

The mrs is learning to drive and so looking for a cheapish car that I can buy as a track toy but still have her drive

Requirements:
-preferably less than £1k so I have some cash for mods, could stretch to £2k for the perfect box ticking car
-fun
-good starter track car stock
-variety of mods available
-still has some scope after getting better at track driving, won't need to be replaced after 6 months
-road legal and can be used as a DD for the mrs
-as reliable as possible for the price point, would like one that can take some abuse on track and still survive another 20-30k miles, and if it could make a trip to the ring next year that would be great
-would like RWD if that's a possibility
-convertible / coupe would be nice but open to hatchbacks etc

Considerations:
-Mazda mx5 / eunos: had a couple mk3s before and loved the handling, I know I'd get a mk1 maybe a mk2 for this price and have heard that the milage doesn't matter as much as the condition of the bodywork. Is it better to go for a high milage with little to no rust or a lower milage with some rust considering this will mainly be for track days and some pootling round town? 1.6vs1.8- owners of the smaller engine say it's more free reving, handles better and takes modifications better. Owners of the larger engine say that its much quicker and handles no worse than the 1.6, any objective opinons?

-Saxo VTS: the car of choice for 17 year olds of my youth, heard it takes a turbo well but even N/A it's quite quick, most will be closer to 150k miles on the clock than 100k, how long lasting are these cars? Have most of them died to boy racer write offs rather than age/wear and tear related deaths? Are parts still plentiful for them?

-Clio 172: bit too pricey?

-206 GTI: don't know much, opinions?

-Golf GTI (Mk3/4): again not much of a hatchback fan so don't know much.

Would really like any ideas and thoughts about these considerations and am open to any suggestions?
Again, I've never driven on track before and despite considering myself a good driver (we all think we're F1 quality right?) I know that I'm probably going to have to start right at the beginning.

[maurauth]

frisbee said:

Your Mrs won't want your track toy, plus a modified car and new driver is going to be horrible for insurance.

She really liked the Mk3 mx5 and thinks small french hatches look "cute' so unless I strip out all the seats etc she won't mind. It's a free car at the end of the day!

[maurauth]

Codswallop said:

Given the criteria it's hard to go wrong with some sort of MX5. Rust can be dealt with, and miles aren't a problem if the car has a good maintence record.

Light weight is useful on track as you'll spend less on consumables. Mk3 MR2 would be a good alternative to look into as they are very light and fun. Prefacelift cars (changeover was about the 2002/52 plate timepoint) can have precat failure which can wreck the engine, so worth bearing in mind. Most will have had preventative work by now I should imagine.

MG TF could be worth a look too. I've heard one or two people have expereinced some sort of cooling and or head gasket issues with the k-series (;)), but overall not a bad motor and the common faults are fairly easy to rectify.

Hadn't considered the MG, will have a look at the MR2s as well as they look interesting.

Leaning on the MX5 a bit though

[maurauth]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd say FWD will be a good starting point because there's more choice.

Clio 172/182
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Clio-172-road-tr...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-RENAULT-CLIO-SPORT-...

Peugeot 206 GTI
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2005-05-Peugeot-206-2-0-...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Peugeot-206-GRAND-T...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PEUGEOT-206-GTI-180-17-I...

If it has to be RWD take a look at the BMW Compacts
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-3-SERIES-325TI-COMPA...

I'll check those out, will also look at the BMW as I've never owned a bmw other than e92/e90.

[maurauth]

Seem to be leaning between the Clio and MX5 at the moment, will look into the Pumas though!

Any first hand experience of the Clios or Mk1/2 MX5s here?

[maurauth]

Come across this on Autotrader whilst looking, at least it's an entry for the horrors thread haha

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2015...

[maurauth]

feef said:

I'm using my MK2.5 MX5 both as a DD and a track toy with a view to competing in hillclimbs and/or sprint when I get my race suit and helmet sorted out (car's prepped and I've got my licence).

I'm also driving it to the South of France in July with my 4yr old as co-pilot. Just shows how versatile the MX5 really is, and still be fun.

I'd go for one with minimal rust. The engines are hardy and cheap to replace. The 1.6 revs more freely as standard, but if you're tracking it and thinking about modding it, the 1.8 will rev just as freely with a slightly lighter flywheel and I've set my rev limiter at 7600rpm (hard limit, soft limit comes in at 7200) and it revs beautifully.

Ah I will definitely consider that then, not sure how much rust is too much, and how big an issue it is

[maurauth]

V8RX7 said:

Std road cars are crap on track.

Whilst they can be improved your Mrs then won't want to drive it nor will she be able to insure it.

The best mod you can do is to add a bucket seat and harness - that'll go down a storm.

I made my first MX5 better on track (seat, harness, rollbar, suspension) and found I was grabbing the keys to my wife's car most of the time.

Yeah I think the most I'd do whilst it still being a road use car is a roll cage, suspension, seats and harness, maybe an exhaust that meets noise regs (would love another Larini but don't know if they're too loud).

To clarify I normally drop her into work and pick her up as it's on my route but this would be for the odd days I can't and for the odd bit of shopping or going somewhere where I can drink rather than always driving.

Insurance shouldn't be an issue.

I'll definitely go out and have a look at some NA/Eunos MX-5s and some 182 Clios this weekend then.

[maurauth]

pablo said:

Fitting a cage is hugely invasive and requires a fair bit of interior removal and refit. Even 6 point bolt in cages are going to need mounting points welded in and the rear diagonal will restrict future use. If you think you need a cage, i'd look at 1-2-1 driver coaching first, prevention being better than a cure.

I'd only be fitting a cage in the MX-5 as I'm a bit dubious over how well protected a 15+ year old soft top which is prone to corrosion really could be in the event of it being rolled.

I'm not expecting to roll it but from some of the videos I've seen sometimes it's out of your control what other drivers do on the track.

[maurauth]

GreatGranny said:

Ditto the cage and harness comments.

On the road you don't want to be hitting your head against metal tubing if you crash.

Also you don't want to be fiddling with a harness every time you get into and out of the car.

Its your wife's daily first, track car second :-)

I know it'll still be a bit of an impact but I'd at least wrap the cage and at her height she shouldn't hit the cage (going on what I've seen sitting in other's MX5s. I'm quite a bit taller but can't see myself driving it other than with a helmet on at the track.

Haha it might be her daily but if I'm paying I'm sure she wouldn't mind extra safety features!

[maurauth]

s200rey89 said:

Bang for Buck, really has to be a SAXO VTS. Most you pick up for sub 1K these days have been cammed/straight through exhause/chipped/lowered etc. all of which or most of which would be great out on the track. Plus these cars get to 100/110 in seconds! So great for track fun! And not 'too bad' to put the misses in on a day to day basis, but as with most cars of similar ilk, they will fold like a packet of crisps in a RTA, so just be warely of putting your loved one in something fast & light...

How many miles would you say are too many for one of these, as quite a few I've found have truly intergalactic milage?

[maurauth]

To all the MX5 comments, yeah it seemed like a no brainer at first as I've had the Mk3 as a DD before and loved it; I'd still be looking at some rollover protection, and agree with above I think the MX5 really only needs a roll bar, that was what I was thinking of.

How much rust would be considered too much for a Mk1 if we're gonna be keeping it for 2/3 years? From what I've seen so far if you want to pay less than £1k there's gonna be a fair bit of rust.

[maurauth]

V8RX7 said:

Arches can be codged up if you aren't bothered about the looks but sills have to be welded which costs.

Always best to look around and travel to find the best one but yes under £1k you'll be lucky, best to find the latest import (fewer UK winters)

Yeah I've been looking at new imports but they seem to be in the 2k-3k range rather than 1k-2k.

So if there's a bit of rust on the arches but sills are fine then it's probably a goer?

[maurauth]

T0MMY said:

Not always that easy to see how badly the sills are rusted, mine looked pretty good but when you cut away the outer layer it was pretty horrific inside. That said, got both sides completely cut out with new metal welded in for £250 so it's not massively expensive.

Ah ok fair enough, what sort of money is it to repair the arches? Quick and dirty vs properly?

[maurauth]

V8RX7 said:

£10 for P40
£10 for paint

Could be hundreds to do them properly.

The sills price given was cheap £250 per side isn't uncommon (for a proper welded and painted job) which could be the price of the car !

Fair enough, just thinking if I get a right corroded stter that's perfect in every other regard for less than £500 and budget another £500 for repairing it might be a good shout, not sure if that's biting off more than I can chew though.