Road rage; is it getting worse?
Discussion
As many regulars may know; I'm a driving instructor.
I have to be fairly skilled in teaching and communicating clearly and sometimes quickly.
I don't let pupils hold people up any more than is absolutely necessary and if needed, I step in and take the control from the passenger seat with the dual controls & steering.
But it's becoming a daily occurrence that Joe Public will tailgate, overtake (when pupils are at the maximum speed limit); overtake just as we are turning right; blast the horn if we take a fraction of a second longer than they do to move off.
I had a van driver pull into a space today that my pupil was mid way through reverse parallel parking into then the driver had a go at me asking what the F*** we were doing.
Well, we had reverse lights on and were at an angle just entering a parking space. It's a tough one to recognise but yes we were reverse parallel parking mate!
We didn't just stop in front of him; we had actually passed him earlier where he was parked half on the pavement. It was several minutes later that he arrived behind us.
Another van driver today stopped to let us out of a side road (nice gesture) but my pupil who was on her 2nd lesson isn't super fast just yet at moving off (that's why we were on quiet back-roads).
He then gets irate; screeching his tyres and redlining his van effing and blinding with a very angry face.
I've also had the comment "why do you have to bring your learners out on public roads"
Uhhm, so where would be best to teach them to get used to junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights, crossings, level crossing, traffic and other road users. Perhaps the private roads around the mansion that I and all other driving instructors are privileged to own?
The toughest part of the job is dealing with these morons & trying to keep the pupil and other mambers of the public safe as a result of their stupid actions, all whilst trying to teach the pupil to drive with good observations, accuracy and control and respect for all other road users.
Learning takes some time; not everyone is a naturally gifted driver and achieves perfection in the first hour of training having never driven before.
Even one of my naturally gifted pupils (virtually test ready after just 8 lessons having never driven before) got blasted once because she gave way to another driver coming from our right at a roundabout. The car was coming at speed, not signalling and straddling both lanes. If we'd gone we'd have been hit!
Are people getting worse and more angry behind the wheel?
And why the hell would anyone with any sense expect a learner driver to do everything text book, they certainly don't & they are FLH's!
I have to be fairly skilled in teaching and communicating clearly and sometimes quickly.
I don't let pupils hold people up any more than is absolutely necessary and if needed, I step in and take the control from the passenger seat with the dual controls & steering.
But it's becoming a daily occurrence that Joe Public will tailgate, overtake (when pupils are at the maximum speed limit); overtake just as we are turning right; blast the horn if we take a fraction of a second longer than they do to move off.
I had a van driver pull into a space today that my pupil was mid way through reverse parallel parking into then the driver had a go at me asking what the F*** we were doing.
Well, we had reverse lights on and were at an angle just entering a parking space. It's a tough one to recognise but yes we were reverse parallel parking mate!
We didn't just stop in front of him; we had actually passed him earlier where he was parked half on the pavement. It was several minutes later that he arrived behind us.
Another van driver today stopped to let us out of a side road (nice gesture) but my pupil who was on her 2nd lesson isn't super fast just yet at moving off (that's why we were on quiet back-roads).
He then gets irate; screeching his tyres and redlining his van effing and blinding with a very angry face.
I've also had the comment "why do you have to bring your learners out on public roads"
Uhhm, so where would be best to teach them to get used to junctions, roundabouts, traffic lights, crossings, level crossing, traffic and other road users. Perhaps the private roads around the mansion that I and all other driving instructors are privileged to own?
The toughest part of the job is dealing with these morons & trying to keep the pupil and other mambers of the public safe as a result of their stupid actions, all whilst trying to teach the pupil to drive with good observations, accuracy and control and respect for all other road users.
Learning takes some time; not everyone is a naturally gifted driver and achieves perfection in the first hour of training having never driven before.
Even one of my naturally gifted pupils (virtually test ready after just 8 lessons having never driven before) got blasted once because she gave way to another driver coming from our right at a roundabout. The car was coming at speed, not signalling and straddling both lanes. If we'd gone we'd have been hit!
Are people getting worse and more angry behind the wheel?
And why the hell would anyone with any sense expect a learner driver to do everything text book, they certainly don't & they are FLH's!
All that jazz said:
Kentish said:
Stuff
In a lot of cases I don't think that a driving instructors' idea of "ready for the road" is the same as other folks. I regularly come up against learners dawdling along a busy 30mph road at 15-20 mph with the driver looking petrified. There is just too much traffic these days to have them bumbling along at half the speed limit on main roads. Instructors should keep them on quiet residential side roads until they can drive confidently at the speed limit and also maintain it.This is just what Joe Public appear to think.
That all driving instructors just send the pupil out to drive on busy main roads without giving them any coaching; just sitting back watching them and critiquing what they are doing.
This couldn't be further from the truth; we carefully select the quietest of back roads as nursery roads (this annoys residents of course; can't win). We then venture out onto main roads when they are competent with steering, clutch, brakes, accelerator, observations, control of the car and accurate placement of the car. In other words, we develop their psycho-motor skills to a point where they can concentrate more on the road situation than controlling the car, so that car control is extinctive rather than tentative whilst they go through a thought process for what they are doing.
Unfortunately, I certainly don't have any quiet back roads where the local council have inversted money in building mutliple lane roads and large roundabouts with multiple exits. So until our local council invest tax payers money in building features of large roads into back roads we have to venture out to main roads to find them. All lessons are carefully planned including routes which depend on the time of day.
However, do you think it is in a learners interest and the interest of the general public to not expose learners or upset people who have full licences by restricting the learner to roads without anyone on them. Letting them get used to traffic, awkward busy junctions on their own when they go solo after they pass their test or do you think it is best done under the guidance of a very experienced fully qualified driving standards agency approved instructor?
hora said:
johnS2000 said:
I haven't read all posts but I too used to be a driving instructor albeit some years ago now as I'm now retired and can sympathise wit the OP.
I do drive an S2000 mostly now and don't really bother with the minor points of driving strictly to the highway code and can push the limits of "making progress" to the extreme shall we say .
However , my wife , due to the mileage she does in the course of her work ,has a diesel ,and ,When I drive it ,I do like to drive it as if I'm on a test !!
I.E. properly !
Not speeding (and I mean on the in car speedo so less than GPS speed ie properly ) Taking left and right turn's at a very appropriate speed ,stopping at amber lights ,negotiating roundabouts in the proper lane and using the proper signals etc etc really really winds people up !!!
And the worse part ???
I absolutely love it .
Thats called smooth driving. The same can be done quicker with the right conditions including the motorway with lift off/coast rather than brake/gas/brake I do drive an S2000 mostly now and don't really bother with the minor points of driving strictly to the highway code and can push the limits of "making progress" to the extreme shall we say .
However , my wife , due to the mileage she does in the course of her work ,has a diesel ,and ,When I drive it ,I do like to drive it as if I'm on a test !!
I.E. properly !
Not speeding (and I mean on the in car speedo so less than GPS speed ie properly ) Taking left and right turn's at a very appropriate speed ,stopping at amber lights ,negotiating roundabouts in the proper lane and using the proper signals etc etc really really winds people up !!!
And the worse part ???
I absolutely love it .
It's safer, it's much kinder to the car, it's much more comfortable for passengers.
Lots of really good comments on this thread.
Training on a mock up of roads with real life urban features is a great idea but sadly I don't know of anywhere like that at all and I couldn't expect pupils to drive a few hours for a lesson and they certainly wouldn't want to pay for the time it would take to drive to one miles away. We'd effectively be training people at cost or even a loss.
We do driving taster sessions for 16 year olds (and younger) in fields but it's nothing like driving on a road, we rarely get out of 1st gear as it's too bumpy to go at any speed.
Ahimoth said:
My own personal theory about the prevalence of tailgating is that it is actually just shoaling.
They're not trying to speed you up, they just get within a certain distance of the car in front and sit there. I've tested it out by accelerating fairly hard up to 30mph, they drift up to 35 until they're close behind you and then just sit there.
They're habitual speeders and don't maintain safe distances, but they're not trying to hurry you up particularly, they just have to be close to the car in front.
I was on the M2 at the beginning of the week and a Vx Corsa (DU15 WMM; I think was the reg) was weaving and driving over the separation lane markings and then I noticed that he was driving half a car length from the car in-front of him at 70+ mph. I could see that it was only that distance because I decided to pass & get ahead of him in case the car in front of him braked for any reason. It was absolute lunacy!They're not trying to speed you up, they just get within a certain distance of the car in front and sit there. I've tested it out by accelerating fairly hard up to 30mph, they drift up to 35 until they're close behind you and then just sit there.
They're habitual speeders and don't maintain safe distances, but they're not trying to hurry you up particularly, they just have to be close to the car in front.
He then appeared in my RVM about a car length or less behind me at 70mph; I lifted off so that he'd pass but he stayed put for a mile or two at roughly one car length or less distance behind me.
His wife in the passenger seat appeared completely at ease; as a passenger, I'd have been s
tting myself!I wish I'd been in my instructor car as it has front and rear cameras.
It was the worst tailgating I have ever seen.
We had a bit of a situation earlier today.
Pupil with 10 hours under his belt; drives well and doesn't hesitate or hold anyone up.
We had our first go at dual carriageways and overtaking.
We are on the DC going around a very shallow long bend to the left.
We identify that we need to pass a lorry ahead.
We check the mirrors, the blindspot to the right and signal out and then move.
There was nothing at all within sight behind when we checked.
We are now out there and getting back up to 70 as our speed had dropped a little during mirror checks (new sensation looking away from the road at 70mph for the pupil so it's only to be expected).
We notice a Citroen C1 (sporty version) approaching really fast behind, he doesn't slow until his is almost a car length or less behind and he starts flashing his lights.
We are alongside the HGV.
So do I ask the pupil to floor it and pull back in?
That would be illegal and also when it comes to test I don't want the pupils telling examiners that their instructor told them to do 90 to get out of an impatient drivers way.
Technically; when being tailgated we teach that the pupil should slow down so that they can slow to a stop rather than braking firmly and getting rear ended.
If we do that though we would have to drop our speed a lot and drop back in when the HGV got 2 secs ahead.
Is the heavy footed citroen driver going to respond well to that?
Probably not, so we kept it at 70mph in the outer lane until we were 2 secs ahead of the lorry and then pulled in hoping that Mr Citroen would back off a few feet but he didn't of course. He just got more angry. He did drop back a little but probably because he noticed my bright yellow CCTV stickers.
I don't think he was rushing to attend the birth of his new born son or something as he was quite happy to pootle along a couple of miles further ahead.
Another incident earlier.
Obstruction on opposite side of road, learner coming towards us uses the holdback position (out and a car length or so back from obstruction), they even had their signal on. So I wave and we continue with priority being ours (the correct way). The car behind the learner coming towards who held back for us overtakes the other learner and meets us head on. We have to stop abruptly and reverse a little and so does the car following us.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Roundabouts is another where you'll find some plank trying to drive up the inside of us as we exit the roundabout because our position is perhaps 12" off because it's the 1st time the pupil has negotiated a big and busy roundabout.
Personally, the last place I'd want to be is trying to squeeze by the inside of a learner car who is signalling left at their exit. That is asking to be side swiped!
My favourite last week was the bellend in a Picanto who overtook us at speed just as we were turning right into a side road. That could have been an awful mess had I not spotted them speed up and pull out. When we checked mirrors on approach they had just been coming up the road behind us, it was literally as we were turning into the new road.
TBH it is the other way around these days, I am coaching my learner and advising them to cut the FLH some slack.
Making excuses for their foolish behaviour; telling pupils not to get rattled and reminding them of the Kenneth Noye incident.
I make every example of poor driving a teaching point; sadly I have a lot of examples to use!
I really do appreciate the comments from the majority here about cutting a learner some slack; it would be great if the majority of people thought that way.
Pupil with 10 hours under his belt; drives well and doesn't hesitate or hold anyone up.
We had our first go at dual carriageways and overtaking.
We are on the DC going around a very shallow long bend to the left.
We identify that we need to pass a lorry ahead.
We check the mirrors, the blindspot to the right and signal out and then move.
There was nothing at all within sight behind when we checked.
We are now out there and getting back up to 70 as our speed had dropped a little during mirror checks (new sensation looking away from the road at 70mph for the pupil so it's only to be expected).
We notice a Citroen C1 (sporty version) approaching really fast behind, he doesn't slow until his is almost a car length or less behind and he starts flashing his lights.
We are alongside the HGV.
So do I ask the pupil to floor it and pull back in?
That would be illegal and also when it comes to test I don't want the pupils telling examiners that their instructor told them to do 90 to get out of an impatient drivers way.
Technically; when being tailgated we teach that the pupil should slow down so that they can slow to a stop rather than braking firmly and getting rear ended.
If we do that though we would have to drop our speed a lot and drop back in when the HGV got 2 secs ahead.
Is the heavy footed citroen driver going to respond well to that?
Probably not, so we kept it at 70mph in the outer lane until we were 2 secs ahead of the lorry and then pulled in hoping that Mr Citroen would back off a few feet but he didn't of course. He just got more angry. He did drop back a little but probably because he noticed my bright yellow CCTV stickers.
I don't think he was rushing to attend the birth of his new born son or something as he was quite happy to pootle along a couple of miles further ahead.
Another incident earlier.
Obstruction on opposite side of road, learner coming towards us uses the holdback position (out and a car length or so back from obstruction), they even had their signal on. So I wave and we continue with priority being ours (the correct way). The car behind the learner coming towards who held back for us overtakes the other learner and meets us head on. We have to stop abruptly and reverse a little and so does the car following us.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Roundabouts is another where you'll find some plank trying to drive up the inside of us as we exit the roundabout because our position is perhaps 12" off because it's the 1st time the pupil has negotiated a big and busy roundabout.
Personally, the last place I'd want to be is trying to squeeze by the inside of a learner car who is signalling left at their exit. That is asking to be side swiped!
My favourite last week was the bellend in a Picanto who overtook us at speed just as we were turning right into a side road. That could have been an awful mess had I not spotted them speed up and pull out. When we checked mirrors on approach they had just been coming up the road behind us, it was literally as we were turning into the new road.
TBH it is the other way around these days, I am coaching my learner and advising them to cut the FLH some slack.
Making excuses for their foolish behaviour; telling pupils not to get rattled and reminding them of the Kenneth Noye incident.
I make every example of poor driving a teaching point; sadly I have a lot of examples to use!
I really do appreciate the comments from the majority here about cutting a learner some slack; it would be great if the majority of people thought that way.
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