Bangernomics verses New Cars
Discussion
I've spent my whole driving life being smart. I've never had a new car because, as everyone knows, they are a waste of money. Oh how I've laughed at those people who pay hundreds each month, and never own their car. How I've chuckled at drivers whose cars loose thousands in value each year. How I've nodded in a old sage way at youngsters driving around proud in the latest model, knowing their new car will soon go out of date so save your money and buy one already out of date.
The two of us have two cars, bought and paid for. A 13 year old Golf and a 17 year old Volvo V70. Both bought and paid for, and costing us peanuts.
Sure, there are maintenance costs. Repairs. MOT costs. But I'm still winning. Right?
The Golf is showing its age, and will need to be replaced soon. The central locking is playing up. It's become incontinent since having a new windscreen. First gear expects to be wined and dined before you are allowed access: no just banging it in there without a thought to it's feelings.
The Volvo will go forever. If ever we have a nuclear holocaust there'll will only two things left moving on the earth, cockroaches and old V70s.
My employer has recently started a new car salary sacrifice scheme. Get a new car every two or three years. In an idle moment, went in and had a look at the deals on the app. As we need to look at replacing the Golf, I thought I'd have a look at how much a new one would be. The GTD looks nice. Sporty yet practical. Very shiny. Tapped in a few details and one over two years, no deposit with everything included except fuel and a 15,000 mile allowance each year comes to £320 per month.
Oh yes, very nice, I thought over my coffee. My old Golf costs nothing. And that's £320 each and every month for the pleasure of driving a new car. I don't even know anyone called Jones, let alone having any wish to keep up with them.
Ok, do I pay about £20 each month for road tax. And about £20 for insurance. So that brings the £320 down to £280 as these costs are included. Still £280 wasted. Smugness resumed.
Slight wobble when I consider that a GTD is more efficient than the old Golf. Maybe I'll save a bit on fuel each month, but no more than say a tenner or so a week. So £280 becomes about £235.
I'm sitting here typing this while I get a puncture repaired for the bargain price of £25. That's a cost I wouldn't have to pay on a new car, and it gets me thinking about all the other costs that add up. Repairs over the last couple of years must be more than a couple of grand (not helped by having to do the clutch and flywheel). So let's knock a hundred off each month.
That brings it down to £135 per month.
Then of course there is depreciation. Even a banger looses money. A £1,500 car might/will suffer a breakdown at some point which is uneconomic to repair. Say you get £200 spares or repair, that's £1,200 lost over three years (could be more, or less but I think that figure and time scale sounds about right). £400 per year brings the total cost of a new car to £100 a month.
£100 per month. For a brand new shiny, won't breakdown, comfortable, modern mode of transport with lots of modern features my older cars don't have.
Have I been wrong all along? Swap one takeaway per week for a brand new car? Maybe I'm the fool, and all those people who are driving their new cars are the smug ones.
I can see from the app I could have a Golf R for just £80 more per month. Only £40 per week, to trade in an asthmatic 13 year old Golf for a brand new Golf R.
Am I missing something here? Why would anyone (like me, D'oh!) continue to drive an old banger when a new car is only the cost of a takeaway each week?
or
(Other takeaways and cars are available).
The two of us have two cars, bought and paid for. A 13 year old Golf and a 17 year old Volvo V70. Both bought and paid for, and costing us peanuts.
Sure, there are maintenance costs. Repairs. MOT costs. But I'm still winning. Right?
The Golf is showing its age, and will need to be replaced soon. The central locking is playing up. It's become incontinent since having a new windscreen. First gear expects to be wined and dined before you are allowed access: no just banging it in there without a thought to it's feelings.
The Volvo will go forever. If ever we have a nuclear holocaust there'll will only two things left moving on the earth, cockroaches and old V70s.
My employer has recently started a new car salary sacrifice scheme. Get a new car every two or three years. In an idle moment, went in and had a look at the deals on the app. As we need to look at replacing the Golf, I thought I'd have a look at how much a new one would be. The GTD looks nice. Sporty yet practical. Very shiny. Tapped in a few details and one over two years, no deposit with everything included except fuel and a 15,000 mile allowance each year comes to £320 per month.
Oh yes, very nice, I thought over my coffee. My old Golf costs nothing. And that's £320 each and every month for the pleasure of driving a new car. I don't even know anyone called Jones, let alone having any wish to keep up with them.
Ok, do I pay about £20 each month for road tax. And about £20 for insurance. So that brings the £320 down to £280 as these costs are included. Still £280 wasted. Smugness resumed.
Slight wobble when I consider that a GTD is more efficient than the old Golf. Maybe I'll save a bit on fuel each month, but no more than say a tenner or so a week. So £280 becomes about £235.
I'm sitting here typing this while I get a puncture repaired for the bargain price of £25. That's a cost I wouldn't have to pay on a new car, and it gets me thinking about all the other costs that add up. Repairs over the last couple of years must be more than a couple of grand (not helped by having to do the clutch and flywheel). So let's knock a hundred off each month.
That brings it down to £135 per month.
Then of course there is depreciation. Even a banger looses money. A £1,500 car might/will suffer a breakdown at some point which is uneconomic to repair. Say you get £200 spares or repair, that's £1,200 lost over three years (could be more, or less but I think that figure and time scale sounds about right). £400 per year brings the total cost of a new car to £100 a month.
£100 per month. For a brand new shiny, won't breakdown, comfortable, modern mode of transport with lots of modern features my older cars don't have.
Have I been wrong all along? Swap one takeaway per week for a brand new car? Maybe I'm the fool, and all those people who are driving their new cars are the smug ones.
I can see from the app I could have a Golf R for just £80 more per month. Only £40 per week, to trade in an asthmatic 13 year old Golf for a brand new Golf R.
Am I missing something here? Why would anyone (like me, D'oh!) continue to drive an old banger when a new car is only the cost of a takeaway each week?
or
(Other takeaways and cars are available).
Thanks for the interesting and varied replies.
No deposit. Just click accept and the car will be delivered to home (or wherever) and you just start paying the monthly fee. Everything included, including tyres. Just add fuel.
As for the chap who hates his A1, and the others who talk about daily hacks to get from A to B, this is why I was looking at a GTD (or an R) as it is interesting to drive. I could, for less, get a "normal" Golf Diesel.
No deposit. Just click accept and the car will be delivered to home (or wherever) and you just start paying the monthly fee. Everything included, including tyres. Just add fuel.
As for the chap who hates his A1, and the others who talk about daily hacks to get from A to B, this is why I was looking at a GTD (or an R) as it is interesting to drive. I could, for less, get a "normal" Golf Diesel.
My quote:
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
I agree about the nearly new market: the figures just don't add up, and I can't see the point of buying a car a few years old unless you are intending to keep the car for many many years and/or do lots and lots of miles. Nearly new often seem more expensive than brand new, when you include all costs.
I disagree.
I was T-boned by the clutch failing (two days before Christmas, joy), and that little gem came to a grand alone. Without that, my repair bills would have only been £50 per month, which I think is very good for an older car to include everything.
The other factor is DIY. Some people can take out and replace a gearbox in their lunch hour. Me, I might do a bit of light tinkering on a sunny afternoon. Anything more demanding than (my current job on my to-do list) fixing a rear wiper that has stopped working goes to a garage.
I take my hat off to those who get in there and get on with it. I'm a driver and not a fixer and as the years go by I do less and less on cars. I've never even looked under my V70. I want a car that just works, and someone else to fix it when it doesn't.
Back to the clutch and flywheel. These here who run older cars (like me) have this Russian roulette forever spinning. Most the time you get away with it but every now and then....bang, a very big bill blows your savings away.
hairykrishna said:
JumboBeef said:
Repairs over the last couple of years must be more than a couple of grand (not helped by having to do the clutch and flywheel). So let's knock a hundred off each month.
I reckon this is where your man maths kicks into high gear. If you're spending £1200 a year on repairing your 'banger' then you're doing it wrong.I was T-boned by the clutch failing (two days before Christmas, joy), and that little gem came to a grand alone. Without that, my repair bills would have only been £50 per month, which I think is very good for an older car to include everything.
The other factor is DIY. Some people can take out and replace a gearbox in their lunch hour. Me, I might do a bit of light tinkering on a sunny afternoon. Anything more demanding than (my current job on my to-do list) fixing a rear wiper that has stopped working goes to a garage.
I take my hat off to those who get in there and get on with it. I'm a driver and not a fixer and as the years go by I do less and less on cars. I've never even looked under my V70. I want a car that just works, and someone else to fix it when it doesn't.
Back to the clutch and flywheel. These here who run older cars (like me) have this Russian roulette forever spinning. Most the time you get away with it but every now and then....bang, a very big bill blows your savings away.
Edited by JumboBeef on Monday 31st August 10:05
Condi said:
JumboBeef said:
I was T-boned by the clutch failing (two days before Christmas, joy), and that little gem came to a grand alone. Without that, my repair bills would have only been £50 per month, which I think is very good for an older car to include everything.
Um... yeah but isnt that daft logic. Ignoring this one really big bill, my bills are actually very small. But you cant ignore the one really big bill, because you have to pay for it to keep the car going. And its a cost you wouldnt have had with a new, or company car. You're fudging the maths to suit yourself.
That's sort of my point. If I had sold that car at 3.5 years instead of 4.5 years of ownership, I wouldn't had had to pay for the clutch. But I did, and I know in the fullness of time there will be other big bills. I'm explaining my man maths to the poster who said £1,200 per year was high.
AudiSport said:
Both current cars fit inline with the above, and apart from a £150 service each have not cost a penny in 12 and 6 months. We both do less than 8k a year miles mind.
Apart from tax of course. And insurance. And the MOT test cost (as you've had one 12 months). And tyres....? Do you never change your tyres?
bobbsie said:
brickwall said:
This is precisely my point. There is real value in predictability and stress-free motoring.
i have no proof, but i wonder if the most stress-free years would be 2 - 5?My own experience has had me broken down more with very new cars than with slightly older ones.
nickfrog said:
Presumably you pay BIK tax ?
Already posted a few pages back....JumboBeef said:
My quote:
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
Make VOLKSWAGEN Range GOLF
Model GOLF DIESEL HATCHBACK
Fuel Diesel
Derivative 2.0 TDI GTD 5dr [Nav] Colour Pearl - Deep black Options Pearl - Deep black~Jacara cloth - Grey
SALARY DEDUCTION SCHEME
Deduction from net (take home) pay £368.76 Monthly Car Tax Liability £0.40 VAT £73.75
Total Estimated Monthly Cost £442.91 SALARY SACRIFICE SCHEME
Monthly Gross Salary Sacrifice £374.17 Savings on NI (£39.66) Savings on Tax (£67.88) Savings on Superan (£34.80) Total Savings per month (£142.34) Monthly Take Home Pay reduced by £231.83 Monthly Car Tax Liability £88.90 Total Estimated Monthly Cost £320.74
Snowdrop_ said:
JumboBeef said:
I can get almost anything through my scheme. Just asked for a quote on a Lamborghini Huracan out of interest.....
Which company do you operate it through?We had it at my old place, through Venson. I am looking at doing it for my employees but need to meet up with lease companies.
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