The more I look the less I find...

[danlightbulb]

Its getting worse.

The more threads I read on here, about cars, bangers, 4k cars...etc, the less I know what I should be going for.

I started out looking for a 7 seater 4x4 in the £6k price range because I really like 4x4s. Then i started looking and asking questions and got extremely disappointed with what was available and its quality.

I now find myself looking at £2k 15 year old BMW 5 series tourers. But I really don't think I can take a risk like that.

So now I have literally no clue how much I should be spending, or the age or mileage I should be targeting, or even what type of car I now want. It seems that I can spend anywhere in the range from £250 to £6000 with no guarantee any car will be behaving itself at either price bracket or anywhere inbetween. I can get a 50k miler that is old or a 150k miler that is newer and I'm unable to decide which is the better option. Economy seems awful on everything except another bloody Mondeo.

HELP ME!!!

[danlightbulb]

I came in here really wanted a nice 4x4. Big, robust, mean looking mutha. Then I looked at how much fuel they use, and the fact that the 10 year old 4x4s don't really look big, robust or mean.

Then I looked at MPVs and hated all of them because they look like vans.

So then I looked at older higher quality (at the time) estates like the beemer 5 series, but another 'normal car' is not really what I wanted in the first place. I carry my kids bikes and my own so its got to be pretty big. And 15 years ago I'm sure the wooden dash trim was top class but now it just looks old fashioned.

I went from driving my dads proton to a Rover 400 to a Vauxhall Astra to a Ford Mondeo over the past 17 years. Now I want something better not worse.

Edited by danlightbulb on Sunday 30th August 21:33

[danlightbulb]

Pebbles167 said:

Buy a shogun sport?

Exactly the type of big truck look I really love. But 27mpg....I would be doubling my annual fuel costs. Its so frustrating.

[danlightbulb]

hman said:

big car = big mass + 4x4 transmission = big fuel consumption. and st dynamics typically.

Unless you need a 4x4 get an estate car if you need the load lugging ability.

The new 4x4s manage 40+ mpg. Cant afford them. In the same way as my 12 year old mondy gets 45mpg which is not bettered (by much) on the modern version, I didn't expect such a gap down to these 4x4 mpgs from the modern lot.

What I really needed was 7 seats. And 4x4 >>>>>>>> MPV in the looks department.


And even if I didn't want a 4x4, I don't see anything special about any of the hatchbacks or estates I'm looking at. I think in comparison to the truck look which I love, any estate is going to look dull. Even the old BMW's I'm looking at have pretty poor mpg's so I'm not winning here either.


I feel as if I could go out and spent £6k and, other than it being newer, the new car would have nothing over and above my current car.

Edited by danlightbulb on Sunday 30th August 22:19

[danlightbulb]

Mr Tidy said:

So maybe just keep your current car??...At least you know what you've got!

Its most likely going to fail its MOT next month. Previous MOTs have been costing me 3 to 4 hundred each time, and things have been going wrong inbetween MOTs as well. The thing is only worth 6 or 7 hundred at best.

noell35 said:

I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest the very non-PH Kia Sorrento 2.5 diesel. But only because I'm confused about whether you need or want 7 seats.

Looked closely at it and like it, cannot find a 7 seater in the used market. Think that may have been a later addition to the range?

Hyundai Santa Fe by far the best option so far, but hardly any to choose from in the used market.

It would be simple if I just wanted another Mondy. But I want something better in some way, to upgrade in some way, something that I'll enjoy owning.

[danlightbulb]

Mr Tidy said:

Mumsnet - PH don't do that sort of cr*p (hopefully)!

Or buy a proper car FFS!

What proper ph car can i get for 6k? All i see are the same old hatches and saloons. Thousands of the same cars.

And re the ropey old american pickups. I dont want a ropey old pickup. I want a modern reliable car that looks nice. I have to drive my kids and missus round in this. I have to commute 12k miles a year on motorways.

I saw a jeep cherokee a few weeks back. Like the look but it was way too small inside. I need something larger than average.

Large and spacious.
Good fuel economy.
Modern and good looking.
Comfortable on the commute.

Edited by danlightbulb on Monday 31st August 09:47

[danlightbulb]

Ive been looking at those. For what i can spend it will be older than my mondeo, fairly high mileage, and wooden dash trim that is out of the 70s. Fuel economy not very good and ive been scared off by reports of expensive repair bills.

[danlightbulb]

Thanks doublesix. Ill have to have a closer look. A brief glance at AT shows i can get a newer car but it would have nearly 200k on it. What max mileage would you consider for a 530i?

I have a bad feeling my insurance would skyrocket too...

[danlightbulb]

I've been focussing on the diesels up to now which return mid 30's. Still 25% worse than my 12 year old mondy but I guess for the size of car, not too bad.

Seems the 530i is similar for petrol, which is now more expensive than diesel in my area.

Also confused on the quoted mpg. A 2005 523i which is a 2.5l petrol is quoted at 32.5mpg, whereas the more powerful 530i 3.0litre petrol is quoted as 35.8mpg. I'd be wanting to get very close to this quoted figure otherwise can't afford to run it.

swisstoni said:

Well? 7 seats, can be had within budget, decent fuel consumption for a 4x4, halfway butch ...

I had looked at these, but again have been put off by people saying that beyond a certain age (the age I can afford) they are prone to very expensive repairs.

Edited by danlightbulb on Monday 31st August 10:47

[danlightbulb]

bockaaarck said:

Citroen C-Crosser 2.2 HDi VTR perhaps?

Thanks for the suggestion but French cars are off my list full stop. Don't like them at all.

[danlightbulb]

It would appear that way. I thought 6 grand was a very reasonable amount to have available to spend on a used car. I still do really. The problem is im wanting something that isnt a run of the mill hatchback.

I really like those 5 series, but only a tiny handful of manual 530i around for under 6k.

Why i really wanted a 4x4? Because its exciting. I cant have a sports car or a hot hatch so where does my excitement come from? Size size size. Massive chunky wheels. My 2 boys (8 and 6) would love it whereas they wont really appreciate a straight 6 bmw petrol engine under the bonnet of an estate.

There are many bmw diesels around. Why the issue with these engines? Diesel should be a simpler fuel than petrol not more complex.

[danlightbulb]

Bennet said:

danlightbulb said:

I feel as if I could go out and spent £6k and, other than it being newer, the new car would have nothing over and above my current car.

In my opinion this can and should be a very liberating realisation - you suddenly realise you were about to spend £x000 on something that won't add to your happiness one bit, and after all, the old car still works and serves you faithfully after all these years. I peruse the ads and often look out the window at my old (mk2) Mondeo and realise it still works and I still like it so I just save up and find contentment in things that matter.

(Furthermore, your kids loving the bad ass looks should be, to me, the lowest thing on the priority list. You could come home in a hummer and they'll be over it within a month.)

Well yes and no. It is very likely that my mondy will cost me several hundred to get through the MOT in a few weeks time. So its whether I stump up at this point or take the opportunity to get a replacement. You are right about the kids of course, but I do like 4x4s too. In fact, 4x4 vs sports car - i wouldn't be able to get anything out of a sports car where i live (middle of the west midlands). Low speed roads, speed bumps everywhere, loads of traffic, no twisty stuff. In fact the 4x4 will be very useful given all the poor roads and potholes, so it would have a small reason to exist.

Alex@POD said:

Which modern 4x4 are you looking at that does 40+MPG? I don't think it's a fair comparison, 12 years ago 4x4s were usually 4x4s, but nowadays, apart from the bigger ones, it's all electronic diffs and part-time 4x4. A "good" MPG will be measured in the best conditions possible and not "real-world".

A few have claimed 40+mpg although take your point. My mondy gets within 3 mpg of the original ford claimed figure of 48mpg. But nowadays the claimed values are fantasy I agree.

Rovinghawk said:

So what you want is a newish 7 seater, ideally 4WD, decent performance, great style, excitement, nice interior, excellent fuel economy but at a relatively low price?

We all want one of those, so surely they must have been produced as there's such a massive demand?

To answer this I would say that I'm not after something perfect, am willing to compromise provided that there are aspects of these things in the car I buy. Firstly, 6 to 7 years old is not really newish, and that's reflected in my £6k budget. If I had a 4x4 then blistering performance isn't a priority as long as its not a total slouch. If I don't get a 4x4 (i.e a 5 series) then it would be nice to have some decent punch. Style is subjective. I like the truck look, I like the 5 series. I don't like the Bongo (sorry ehonda). I don't really like the boxy MPVs. I'm not really a fan of supercars either. Interior - comfortable, modern looking (i.e no mahogany), decent stereo. Fuel economy is pretty much a given these days yes? I'm not after the best in class in all of these things, just something that is average at all of them.


This whole diesel thing. I'm confused by it. The only thing that's gone wrong with my mondy engine was the DMF, which cost about a grand to replace about 6 or 7 years ago. You guys saying there is nothing on a petrol engine that can cost a grand to repair, EVEN on a straight six BMW engine? And where have these DPF's come from? My mondy doesn't have one of these as far as I know. So this whole 'total cost of ownership' thing, well I see the point being made but in my experience the diesel engine has been pretty reliable. I would not want to stump up for another DMF repair though.


I've had the 530i recommended to me here, and I like it very much, but can't find any. So while I am grateful for the recommendations, it seems they are as unrealistic as my own expectations.


Been on a trip to north wales yesterday and today. Mondy did great on a run. Its not a bad car. But if Im changing it its natural to want something better isn't it. Saw lots of 4x4s parked up at the seaside. Love the chunky truck look. Hate 4x4s on 19" alloys, looks stupid. 15" wheels and high profile tyres - perfect. Some of them are bigger than I thought they were when up close.

Edited by danlightbulb on Tuesday 1st September 21:50

Edited by danlightbulb on Tuesday 1st September 21:55

[danlightbulb]

hman said:

X5 petrol.

30mpg I could handle. 20 mpg on the x5 petrol is just too much of a added cost for me.

Plus, I don't actually like them, lol. I don't really like 4x4s that are really just cars. If I'm not getting a 4x4 that looks like a 4x4 should, then I'd rather have a 5 series.

[danlightbulb]

Think am finally narrowing down what I would like.

Option 1, a 2005 530d tourer, automatic, 35mpg claimed, approx £5.5k.

Option 2, a 2007 530d tourer, manual, 44mpg claimed (big difference from above), approx £6k.

Option 3, a 2006 nissan pathfinder 2.5D, 31mpg (ouch), approx £5 to £6k for a 130k miler.

[danlightbulb]

Would a 8/10 year old BMW which had done 100k be shagged?

Why would repair bills on a 530d be any more than on a mondeo TDCi? I had to have the DMF done on my Mondy and it cost the best part of a grand. Why would the DMF be any different on the BMW? My mondy has never had an injector fault (thankfully), I know its a risk though as with any car. Why wouldn't a petrol engine have injector failure?

Isn't a 8/10 year old BMW better built than a 5/6 year old mondeo, which is all I can get for the cash? Both will have done around 100k miles give or take 20k.

Im getting very mixed messages. Everyone is saying avoid the diesel but there are hardly any petrol models around and they cost the same as the diesel. Economy is important but i can live with 35mpg. Don't want lower than this it starts to cost alot more. There will always be a risk of major expense with any car won't there, diesel or not?

Bill said:

With the best will in the world any 4x4 you get will struggle to get 30mpg (how many miles pa do you do?). And do you really need a huge amount of load space? There are a hell of a lot of fast, fun 4 seaters in budget.

You're lucky in many ways, I have three kids (two in boosters) so most estates are out, particularly as we often carry their friends about too. (Watch the mumsnet whingers froth at the idea of someone who actual needs a 7-seater. )

I do 10 to 12 k a year, town, motorway, dual carriageways, a run out every so often. I do need a decent load space for carrying bikes mostly.

I have 2 kids in boosters and my missus has one toddler in a full car seat. So we tend to take 2 cars most places at the moment.

Edited by danlightbulb on Wednesday 2nd September 10:42

[danlightbulb]

Ok so I can get a 2007 Nissan X trail in 2.2 diesel with 100k miles for my £6k. Honda CRV is roughly the same. How is this any more or less of a risk than a similarly aged, similarly miled, BMW 530d?

If I should be avoiding diesels then shouldn't I be avoiding them in all marques?

[danlightbulb]

technodup said:

Because BMW?

It's the old cheap, reliable, fast question. Choose two.

If 5-10 mpg is a factor then you're looking at the wrong cars.

BMWs are all over the place just like Mondeos. A new mondeo is just as much out of my price range as a new beemer. They may have been expensive when new, but all cars are expensive when new. I don't use main dealer garages or pay for OE parts if I can help it.

Ghost91 said:

I would sooner have an avensis if I were in your situation, there's no point skinting yourself to impress people.

This isn't about what the neighbours might think when they look out of the window. I just want something that I will enjoy owning, that I think is a bit special compared to what I have had before.

Thanks for the avensis suggestion. They seem quite nice actually, as far as average everyday cars go. Just looking at a 2009 estate with 78k on the clock, a 147bhp 1.8l petrol engine, and it has a claimed 43mpg. Can anyone tell me whether these petrol engines (or the diesels also) are any good? Are the cars generally good, handle well, comfortable, good room inside etc?

I did have a 1.8l petrol Vauxhall Astra previously - that engine was rubbish. Would be worried a 1.8l 4 cyl petrol is pretty un-robust.

Bennet said:

Dear danlightbulb,

I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but when I was in the position it sounds like you're in, the relief I felt from deciding to just stop looking at car ads and not care about what I drove for a while was very pleasant. I'm still enjoying it now.

So I'd keep the Mondeo for another year.

I think you're right Bennet. I've not found something Im entirely happy with so best hold off. Mondy MOT in three weeks - a £600 car, what if it needs £600 of suspension repairs - pay it or scrap it?

Edited by danlightbulb on Wednesday 2nd September 18:53

[danlightbulb]

Willy Nilly said:

This is the car you need. You might not want it. No need to thank me.

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds?Category=us...

Ha ha yeah the classic 3 seats across in the front look. You were dead right, I don't want it

[danlightbulb]

Willy Nilly said:

Then walk.

Would rather walk than drive that. (ok that might be an exaggeration). but i'd still feel like I was in a Transit.


I think I might forget the 7 seats thing altogether. The missus will have to deal with that problem when she comes to change her car. 99% of the time I'm in it on my own anyway.


Here is a very rubbish anecdote. Last year I was a member of an air rifle club. The parking was on a grass field next to the club. One Sunday, after a bit of rain, I drove on to this field in my Mondy. I could not get off again and had to be towed off. An almost flat grass field with a bit of mud on it and my Mondy could not cope.

4x4 would just be very useful thing to have, even if I don't need it 99% of the time. Its the same with the 7 seats thing. 99% of time do not need them, but when I do need it and don't have it? Stuck.

99% of the time I don't need a satnav. How many people have inbuilt satnavs in their cars? Lots.

99% of the time I don't need to carry my bikes, but when I need to carry the bikes I need to have the space.


We all buy things for the 1% situation.



I need to clear up this reliability issue we've talked about in this thread.

Diesels can have more big things go wrong than petrols right? But suspension components, bushes, brakes, PAS pumps, coolant pumps, alternators, Cambelts, clutches, auxiliary belts etc, all these things are common to both petrols and diesels. On my mondy, the only thing specific to the diesel engine that failed was the DMF, at somewhere around 130k miles. Yes it cost a lot, but should I be ruling out a whole class of readily available vehicles at reasonable prices because of one possible component failure? It seems very restrictive to do so.

Will there be any real difference in reliability between a used 2006 BMW 5 series at 100k miles and a used 2008 Ford Mondeo at 100k miles? Really? I could drop unlucky with either or neither in equal measure? Are people here saying that if I buy Toyota (diesel or petrol) then I SIGNIFICANTLY reduce my risk of repair costs, given a 2008 100k miler?

Whilst I'd love a 3 litre 6 pot 200 bhp petrol, it will cost me alot more to insure it and fuel it. Its not the sensible choice.

Any car better than a Mondeo or an Avensis, i.e any large BMW, Audi or Volvo, will have originally cost £40k+. Does this mean all parts will be equally as expensive? Lots of people have these cars second hand, are they all stumping up twice or three times as much for parts all the time? It just seems like something that would be common knowledge if it were so.

I just find myself wondering how much of these things I am hearing are scaremongering, or whether its me that's in denial.


Re the mpg thing. If it was guaranteed that the petrol choice would save me in repair costs then I'd happily live with a lower mpg petrol car. But it doesn't seem that way to me, and therefore the higher economy is more of an immediate and visible cost driver than hidden low likelihood repair costs.


The 4x4 thing is just because i like the truck look and the feeling of size and robustness. Its a personal thing, just as the man next to me might like camper vans, and the man next to him might like Lamborghini's.

[danlightbulb]

ExPat2B said:

If you really want a 4x4, buy a cheap Suzuki Jimny as well and go green laning with your kids, find some muddy bog holes and have some fun. I do it with my kids and its a total blast they will love it, a cheap light Jimny will go places a big heavy 4x4 can't dream of.

I wanted to do this initially. Saw a great Jeep Cherokee for sale for £900 quid down the road. Could not insure it, even on a specialist limited mileage policy, for less than £500 (more than I pay for my main car). Some places wanted over a grand!! Robbing bds. So I was forced to give up on that idea.