Why are people buying expensive diesels?
Discussion
I’m trying to buy an expensive sporty saloon but they are all diesels.
First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
First car on the list was a Panamera but the 3 main dealers I rang had nothing but diesels available.
Keeping an open mind I was persuaded by the salesman to drive the diesel, "they are better than the petrols these day sir, with your mileage it'll suit you to the ground and the residuals are far better than the petrol".
Do you think he says this to people asking to buy a Panamera Turbo I wonder?
An extended test drive confirmed it was every bit as bad as I had thought, clattery, dull, slow, boring, and not economical enough to justify the former.
So while I keep an eye on autotrader for a suitable Panamera I looked at 6 series gran coupe, only 5 petrols available on auto trader and all hundreds of miles away but over 100 diesels.
Keeping an open mind I went to view a 640d but I aborted the test drive after a few seconds of hearing the engine idling. The salesman tells me if they get a petrol in stock they will charge a premium for it because all their petrol models are exported to Asia where the market is quite different…
One would assume that anyone who spends £50k on a car has a lot of money and isn't overly concerned with running costs. So why are people still choosing diesel? Can they honestly not tell the difference between a petrol and diesel these days?
Has the general population fell for the decade long propaganda that diesel is the saviour of motoring?
Before anyone gets offended, I am not talking about taxi drivers, reps, or HGVs that do 50,000 miles a year. I’m talking specifically about expensive saloons which you can pick up a year old with 5k on the clock with one former private keeper.
Rickyy said:
Most people aren't car enthusiasts and like the effortless, torquey power delivery of modern diesels. They also consider fuel consumption and road tax to be the only factors to consider when working out ownership costs. Which may well make the car cheaper to own and run in certain circumstances, but not in all.
I'd say the forced induction petrol equivalents are just as effortless, only a lot smoother and pleasant, and if we're talking about base models then even cheaper than the diesels. 
hole! Diesel is for the weak.Muzzer79 said:
Really don't understand the anti-diesel-ness on here in general
Its not really anti diesel is it, most of us accept they have their place just not in £50k+ cars.If you bought a house for £5 million pounds you wouldn't want it decorated in furniture from Ikea would you.
Also is the range argument even valid? Something like a Panamera has a 100litre tank, and in some cars such as the Audi A8 the 4.2 TDi only returns mid 20's in real life so hardly good considering the draw backs.
Ares said:
Your first point, you are wrong. Just because you can afford £70k, doesn't mean you ignore economics, even if your second point wasn't true. You may indeed find that people can afford £70k BECAUSE they consider economics, and have done previously.
Your second point is likewise wrong. If you compare the diesel to the top of the range petrol - yes it is likely to be left wanting (see my 640d Vs M6 analogy above). However, like for like the difference simply isn't there. I drove the 640d and 640i, back-to-back. Both use forced induction 3l straight sixes. You would struggle to get a more like-for-like example. The 640d is quicker and feels a lot quicker, costs less to run, is nicer and smoother to drive, suits the brilliant ZF gearbox better, does significantly more to the gallon (so less stops at a fuel station)...in fact quite in contrary to your statement, it is better in every way, with the exception of engine noise - but from inside you can hear neither 99% of the time, so it becomes a comparative non-issue.
As you say, sales figures speak volumes.
That is a load of tosh.Your second point is likewise wrong. If you compare the diesel to the top of the range petrol - yes it is likely to be left wanting (see my 640d Vs M6 analogy above). However, like for like the difference simply isn't there. I drove the 640d and 640i, back-to-back. Both use forced induction 3l straight sixes. You would struggle to get a more like-for-like example. The 640d is quicker and feels a lot quicker, costs less to run, is nicer and smoother to drive, suits the brilliant ZF gearbox better, does significantly more to the gallon (so less stops at a fuel station)...in fact quite in contrary to your statement, it is better in every way, with the exception of engine noise - but from inside you can hear neither 99% of the time, so it becomes a comparative non-issue.
As you say, sales figures speak volumes.
The 640d is not quicker, is not nicer nor smoother to drive, plus its more expensive to buy so there's that too.
The nicest thing I can say about the 640d engine is it feels like a petrol engine without any oil, the NVH which enter the cabin at idle are simply unacceptable on a car of that value.
Edited by Ollie123 on Tuesday 1st September 20:44
danlightbulb said:
Its not a perceived savings though, its absolutely real savings, week in week out. The against argument appears to be that diesels fail more. Is this real or is it a perception? Is there nothing on a petrol engine that can go wrong and cost a wedge of cash too?
Compare a 45mpg diesel against a 30mpg petrol at 10k miles a year, which isn't particularly high. At £1.10 a litre, over 5 years the diesel will cost you £5,448 in fuel. The petrol will cost you £8,323, £2,875 MORE. You can get the DMF and DPF done for that, and would not expect only a 5 year life on these components. I don't understand the argument that the total cost of ownership is less with a petrol, with our high fuel costs.
Diesels cost more to buy, so at average mileage you need 2 years of ownership before starting to break even.Compare a 45mpg diesel against a 30mpg petrol at 10k miles a year, which isn't particularly high. At £1.10 a litre, over 5 years the diesel will cost you £5,448 in fuel. The petrol will cost you £8,323, £2,875 MORE. You can get the DMF and DPF done for that, and would not expect only a 5 year life on these components. I don't understand the argument that the total cost of ownership is less with a petrol, with our high fuel costs.
Ares said:
Ollie123 said:
Ares said:
Your first point, you are wrong. Just because you can afford £70k, doesn't mean you ignore economics, even if your second point wasn't true. You may indeed find that people can afford £70k BECAUSE they consider economics, and have done previously.
Your second point is likewise wrong. If you compare the diesel to the top of the range petrol - yes it is likely to be left wanting (see my 640d Vs M6 analogy above). However, like for like the difference simply isn't there. I drove the 640d and 640i, back-to-back. Both use forced induction 3l straight sixes. You would struggle to get a more like-for-like example. The 640d is quicker and feels a lot quicker, costs less to run, is nicer and smoother to drive, suits the brilliant ZF gearbox better, does significantly more to the gallon (so less stops at a fuel station)...in fact quite in contrary to your statement, it is better in every way, with the exception of engine noise - but from inside you can hear neither 99% of the time, so it becomes a comparative non-issue.
As you say, sales figures speak volumes.
That is a load of tosh.Your second point is likewise wrong. If you compare the diesel to the top of the range petrol - yes it is likely to be left wanting (see my 640d Vs M6 analogy above). However, like for like the difference simply isn't there. I drove the 640d and 640i, back-to-back. Both use forced induction 3l straight sixes. You would struggle to get a more like-for-like example. The 640d is quicker and feels a lot quicker, costs less to run, is nicer and smoother to drive, suits the brilliant ZF gearbox better, does significantly more to the gallon (so less stops at a fuel station)...in fact quite in contrary to your statement, it is better in every way, with the exception of engine noise - but from inside you can hear neither 99% of the time, so it becomes a comparative non-issue.
As you say, sales figures speak volumes.
The 640d is not quicker, is not nicer nor smoother to drive, plus its more expensive to buy so there's that too.
The nicest thing I can say about the 640d engine is it feels like a petrol engine without any oil, the NVH which enter the cabin at idle are simply unacceptable on a car of that value.
Edited by Ollie123 on Tuesday 1st September 20:44
And it isn't cheaper when you factor in BMW Finance.
MattHall91 said:
It would be useful to factor in how much a petrol is worth to the owner in a more intangible way.
Back to the original post - BMW AU M5?
Salesman tried to sell me an M3/M4/M5 but I declined on the fact they are all so ugly to my eyes, also I dont want a car of that genre which uses the speakers to pump fake engine sounds into the cabin.Back to the original post - BMW AU M5?
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