Taped over warning lights
Discussion
Hi PH,
As you may know if you followed the thread in Readers' Cars, I recently bought a BMW 325ti. It was a bit of a bargain, though it came with a few faults that I have since rectified.
Tonight I decided to take the instrument binnacle apart to see why the trip counter reset button was not working. When I disassembled it, I found that several warning lights have had their LEDs covered with black electrical tape. Specifically:
t and implies deliberate deception (and dangerous deception too). Assuming that these lights illuminate once I remove the tape and put the binnacle back in the car, do I have any recourse with the seller? I bought from a dodgy looking used car lot near Luton, and perhaps I should have known better, but this seems unacceptable (blah blah etc).
Any thoughts PH?
As you may know if you followed the thread in Readers' Cars, I recently bought a BMW 325ti. It was a bit of a bargain, though it came with a few faults that I have since rectified.
Tonight I decided to take the instrument binnacle apart to see why the trip counter reset button was not working. When I disassembled it, I found that several warning lights have had their LEDs covered with black electrical tape. Specifically:
- Brake warning light
- ABS warning light
- Brake pad level light
- Traction control light
- Airbag warning light
t and implies deliberate deception (and dangerous deception too). Assuming that these lights illuminate once I remove the tape and put the binnacle back in the car, do I have any recourse with the seller? I bought from a dodgy looking used car lot near Luton, and perhaps I should have known better, but this seems unacceptable (blah blah etc).Any thoughts PH?
Defcon5 said:
To be fair they may all be down to a single fault (bar the airbag)
Or maybe it's had a replacement cluster and not wired up right?
Does the abs and traction control work?
Luckily I have had no reason to test ABS or traction control, I will put the instruments back later and see if there is any glow under the tape that I didn't notice. I am reluctant to remove the tape until I know what my legal position is (I have emailed a lawyer friend).Or maybe it's had a replacement cluster and not wired up right?
Does the abs and traction control work?
I am reluctant to return the car for a refund as I have spent a considerable amount of money fixing problems so far. An acceptable solution to me would be for the supplying garage to pay for a BMW specialist to resolve all problems associated with whatever warning lights are coming on. The likelihood is that this just means one or more new brake wear sensors, wheel speed sensors, and perhaps the passenger occupancy sensor or a new airbag. I will try to get the codes read tomorrow and find out more.
From a legal position, I found this: "Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to sell, supply or offer to sell or supply, or expose for sale an unroadworthy vehicle.". In my opinion, having essential warning lights obscured makes a car unroadworthy. I will pop along to citizen's advice tomorrow and see what they say.
From a legal position, I found this: "Section 75 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 makes it an offence to sell, supply or offer to sell or supply, or expose for sale an unroadworthy vehicle.". In my opinion, having essential warning lights obscured makes a car unroadworthy. I will pop along to citizen's advice tomorrow and see what they say.
Ghibli said:
It's probably best to see if any lights come on.
Did the dealer put an MOT on the car before you bought it ?
No, the last MOT was in January. There is some mention in the MOT history of lights not coming on around 2012, then a retest at a different centre and no problems any more. I will pop it back in and see if I can spot any light.Did the dealer put an MOT on the car before you bought it ?
300bhp/ton said:
If you are reselling a car with a current MoT and you allow the purchaser to inspect the vehicle fully, then you are probably covered by the term reasonable.
The same would apply if you MoT'd a vehicle before selling it.
Of course intentional deception to either gain an MoT or to hide a known fault of a vehicle from the prospective buyer is not legal. But you would need to be able to prove this was the case. Tape covering warning lights will be very hard to prove who and when. The law will also take into context the circumstances of the purchase. So if you are spending £500-2500 on a 10 year old+ vehicle, then it is far more reasonable to assume such cars will have issues, known or unknow.
If you were buying a brand new car at full retail price from a dealership or manufacture, then it would be viewed very differently.
I spoke to someone about this today, and I am covered by consumer laws. If a vehicle has an undisclosed fault, it is the responsibility of the dealer selling the car to make that right (refund, replacement, or repair). In this case it does not matter whether the dealer was aware that the lights had been deliberately obscured, they are still responsible for the sale of a faulty vehicle. Of course they can pursue the person who sold it to them, but that is their problem not mine.The same would apply if you MoT'd a vehicle before selling it.
Of course intentional deception to either gain an MoT or to hide a known fault of a vehicle from the prospective buyer is not legal. But you would need to be able to prove this was the case. Tape covering warning lights will be very hard to prove who and when. The law will also take into context the circumstances of the purchase. So if you are spending £500-2500 on a 10 year old+ vehicle, then it is far more reasonable to assume such cars will have issues, known or unknow.
If you were buying a brand new car at full retail price from a dealership or manufacture, then it would be viewed very differently.
More information here https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/cars-an...
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