BMW 330i or Mondeo ST220

[GreenArrow]

Bit random this, but I fancy a sports saloon/hatch with a nice n/a 6 cyl engine....these two appeal the most!

Which do you think would be best? Surprisingly, perhaps, I have found several 330is for less than the cheapest reasonable condition ST220..

[GreenArrow]

Absolutely not buying a ZS, sorry!

Mondeo ST220 appeals because I have always rated the Mk3 Mondeo having driven my neighbours TDCI a few times. They handle tidily, seem to go on forever and the ST is a proper rare beast and I love the paint job and wheels.

The 330i E46 I just think looks classy and having already driven one and nearly bought one a few years back I know how well they drive.

The reason for my post (In response to Dave ST220) is simply to gather views of people who have owned them or driven them, after all its what we do here isn't it, gas about cars?!!

[GreenArrow]

hmm, if I could pick up a E90 330i for the price of a good ST220, that could swing it.

Is this a mismatched comparison? Not really, both cars have about 220-230 BHP, if you take out the advantage the 330i has on traction, they cover 30-100 in about the same time or thereabouts....

The Mondeo appeals because they have masses of room and my eldest daughter is already 5'10 and legs that go on forever at age 14....also, its rarer. The BMW appeals due to the perfect balance of that RWD chassis and the lovely straight six engine....

...a curve ball thrown today by me into my own debate, I bought a cheap Mk2 MX-5, so...I don't need a 330i simply because I want to drive a RWD car. On a daily all year round driver, a FWD car is fine by me....less bother if it snows too!!

[GreenArrow]

Clivey said:

GreenArrow said:

hmm, if I could pick up a E90 330i for the price of a good ST220, that could swing it.

Is this a mismatched comparison? Not really, both cars have about 220-230 BHP, if you take out the advantage the 330i has on traction, they cover 30-100 in about the same time or thereabouts....

The Mondeo appeals because they have masses of room and my eldest daughter is already 5'10 and legs that go on forever at age 14....also, its rarer. The BMW appeals due to the perfect balance of that RWD chassis and the lovely straight six engine....

...a curve ball thrown today by me into my own debate, I bought a cheap Mk2 MX-5, so...I don't need a 330i simply because I want to drive a RWD car. On a daily all year round driver, a FWD car is fine by me....less bother if it snows too!!

"Bother" if it snows? Fit the right tyres and the BMW would be even more fun in the snow!

The Ford's far from a bad car and I'm hardly a badge snob but in this case it'd be E46 all the way. I don't think I've ever driven a more "complete" car and TBH if our Mini JCW doesn't start behaving itself, it'll probably be swapped for one - a 330Ci (coupé)!

Well that's good to know, tbh I have hankered after a 330i for some years. I came so close to buying a 330i in 2009, but it wasn't to be. I still think it looks classier than the E90 that followed, indeed a 330ci still looks a lovely thing indeed.

Similarly, the ST220 has always been a favourite of mine. Not sure why, but I do like my Q cars and I know the ST is highly rated by those in the know...

[GreenArrow]

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

RobM77 said:

cerb4.5lee said:

lauda said:

The ST220 definitely felt more of a sports car to me and the engine made a nicer noise

I have a E90 330i too and I struggle to see why many rate BMW`s straight six engines so highly because I have had ST24/V6 Ghia X mondeo`s previously and I think that the Duratec Ford V6 trumps it for sound easily so I would imagine the 3 Litre in the ST220 makes a great noise.

Nothing wrong overall with the N52 engine as its smooth and pulls pretty well at the redline but for noise and an overall sporty nature it certainly lacks a little something I think and I prefer a V6 engine over a straight six engine every time.

I think those that rate the BMW 3 litre straight six (me included) do so for its combination of power, mpg and smoothness across the rev range. My Z4 Coupé for example had a low ratio final drive as standard, so not great for mpg, but it could still manage over 40mpg on a long run, whilst putting out over 260bhp from a very torquey, smooth and drivable engine. I'm not sure the Ford n/a V6s have ever managed that power or mpg in standard trim have they, let alone both together?

Don't get me wrong I still rate it as a good engine and the Ford V6 will be thirstier and comparing a ST220 to a E90 330i I believe the 330i trumps it for performance and economy, I am far from an expert on engines but from what I have read a straight six set up is smoother than a V6 set up too.

Its just that the sound isn't very inspiring with the N52 330i when compared to the Ford but I have always thought that the E46 330i engine sounds far throatier and more meaningful than the E90 330i too.

That goes back to what I was saying about the mismatch of the cars' raison d'être. The 330 is a 'do it all' car designed as much for pensioners to drive to church as much as it is families and boy racers. The ST220 has more of a hot hatch brief behind its engineering. If the 330i was a genuine ST competitor, you can bet that BMW would give it a different intake at the very least, probably different exhaust too. The reason that we're comparing the two is that BMW build their standard cars to handle very well, so its talents do cover a wide sphere including the ST, but the key point is that that also includes quiet motorway cruising and gentle town use.

I absolutely agree, I guess its why a 330i is on my list against a specialist model ST220.

That said, the ST220 was a product of the R parry-Jones Ford era, I believe, in what I think was the best era for Fords. I honestly don't think they have been as good since the early to mid 2000s, when the Focus was in its prime, the Mondeo was top of the class and the brilliant Puma was available-just- and this means the ST also rides smoothly and can be used for taking pensioners to church! (so I believe).

[GreenArrow]

Denaris said:

Dave_ST220 said:

Why would anyone buy a Nova????

Think about it.

That's not the point, choosing between a Ford and a BMW is like deciding if you should take your wife out for dinner at McDonalds or the Shard.

Posts like this always make me smile. Not sure if its made tongue in cheek or seriously, but if the latter, you do realise its not the 1980s any more don't you. BMWs are no longer exclusive or particularly premium in relation to the likes of Ford and Ford don't make the Escort or Sierra any more. The 3 series outsells the Mondeo and in terms of reliability, Ford was in the top 10 manufacturer chart for the most recent one, BMW was not.

That's not to say I wouldn't like a BMW, but Ford make some ok cars as testified by the number of ageing 15 year old Focus and Mondeos still going strong.

[GreenArrow]

Dave_ST220 said:

OP, this may help you, although less valid points when comparing use cars obviously!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1OBqrfIQOM

Saloon is better obviously

I Remember this episode well. Actually, as the owner of a bread and butter Mazda 6, its making me wonder whether I should add the Mazda 6 MPS to this little comparison, it looks like an absolute corker and just as rare, if not rarer than an ST220!

[GreenArrow]

TheAngryDog said:

GreenArrow said:

Dave_ST220 said:

OP, this may help you, although less valid points when comparing use cars obviously!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1OBqrfIQOM

Saloon is better obviously

I Remember this episode well. Actually, as the owner of a bread and butter Mazda 6, its making me wonder whether I should add the Mazda 6 MPS to this little comparison, it looks like an absolute corker and just as rare, if not rarer than an ST220!

No. I was hugely disappointed with mine. I sold it after 2 months. If you need reliability then an mps wouldn't suit you. If you like to be able to accelerate from 2k rpm then an mps wouldn't suit you. If you Dont want to be worrying when the VVT system is going to st itself, or when a rod is going to bend, putting a leg out of bed or worrying when the standard turbo is going to die then an mps is not going to suit you. They rust, feel Cheap and sound cheap. Engine sounds awful as it's a disi engine and runs the same type of mechanical fuel pump as the 2.0t vag engines. Air con Pipes rust through.

Saying that, the red they come in is an excellent colour and they can be made to go fast.

Good feedback, thanks! I have a boggo 6 and it has a bit of rust, but is reliable and I don't expect much given it didn't cost me much.

Back to the 330i/Mondeo then!

The only thing with 330i that puts me off is that they are all over 10 years old now and have some expensive bits that could go. The Mondeo at the end of the day is just an old Ford, meaning it shouldn't break the bank to run it.

[GreenArrow]

Wow, bit of a rumble on my little post.

I asked my mechanic once about Ford's quality vs other makes and he made a good point. The german cars like BMWs, typically get bought by people with the income and desire to keep them properly serviced and looked after as they get older. Fords inevitably are seen as a cheap car for families often on lower incomes and aren't lavished with as much TLC. A mate of mine is a good case in point. He never checks the oil on his cars and didn't even know which part of the engine the coolant went in.

So often not fair to bash Ford for what appears to be poor longevity, because any car not looked after properly will have an early death.

A properly looked after modern Ford will last a long time. Look at the high mileage Mk3 Mondeo TDCIs going. Ok, they will have been through at least one DMF/clutch by now, but with 200 or 300K miles on the clock they drive well. My neighbours pampered Mondeo TDCI drove like new with 150K on the clock, not a squeak or rattle and still on the original clutch. It was killed by a blown turbo in the end!

[GreenArrow]

BrownBottle said:

Dave_ST220 said:

I've still got a Mk1 V6 (20 years old next year, stty Ford eh) & I prefer it's rawness but the ST220 kills it in the handling department. Not sure what the Mk1 does in every other department that is "better".

I wasn't referring to the ST's in particular, more the base cars.

Much preferred the handling and ride quality of the Mk1 the Mk3 suspension just felt harsh and unyielding. Interior felt like the accountants had got a hold of it a cold harsh environment with bench like seats compared to the plush ones in most Mk1's.

Actually I could say the exact same things about the Mk1 Focus compared to the Mk2, ok maybe not the seats, Mk1 Focus seats weren't great either. In fact I've just thought about the Fiesta Mk4 released not long after the Mk3 Mondeo, it wasn't very good to drive either especially compared to its excellent predecessor. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Mk3 Mondeo, Mk4 Fiesta and Mk2 Focus all early noughties cars and none of them as good to drive as the models they replaced IMO.

Fair point and its continued into the teenies, as IMO, the Mk3 Focus and Mk4 Mondeo are still less involving that the models THEY replaced!! The MK5 Mondeo is simply enormous.

I had a Focus Mk1 1.6 Zetec, perhaps the sweetest most neutral handling FWD car I have ever owned.

In fact, bar the Fiesta, which remains brilliant, I feel Ford isn't the benchmark for FWD handling in bread and butter cars that it was, say 15 years ago when its entire range was class leading....