Is it time to have an age limit for driving on the road?

[CorvetteConvert]

Today there has been an absolutely terrible and fatal crash on the M1, close to where i am staying presently. It involved an 87 year old man driving the wrong way along the M1.
Now i know every driver is different, but there have been far too many crashes involving very old drivers in the past few years, one that comes to mind closed the M6 earlier this year for 5 hours.
Whether we like to admit it or not 80+ means less awareness, poorer eyesight, poorer decision making, poorer hearing, less physical ability and more forgetfulness, to name just a few.
Would a test every year from say 75 be the answer, a blanket ban at 80, or something else?
Surely something has to be done?

[CorvetteConvert]

smithyithy said:

While I do see what you're getting at, I'd like to see statistics that show fatal accidents involving elderly drivers, young drivers, drunk drivers, drugged drivers etc..

This is indeed my point, we ban drunk drivers, we ban drugged drivers and you instantly compared them to very old drivers. That is what i am saying, they are all high risk drivers!
Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!

[CorvetteConvert]

julian64 said:

Done to death on PH.

Statistically the safest population of drivers, so your request is illogical

Young drivers far more likely to injury themselves or others so you would be better directing your attention toward them.

People deteriorate with age but at different rates, and age is a very poor measure of someones safety, or ability in a car.

There is an argument for everyone to get regular retests but it would be unpopular with the masses and cost a fortune.

Anyone can report anyone to the DVLA if they suspect they aren't safe in a car, but we live in such a fractured society that these people are often left to report themselves, or be collected by the bucket that is the overstretched police service.

here endeth the thread.

I disagree.
An 87 year old will have the problems i listed above and you cannot tell me that makes them safer than say, YOU. Does it? The statistics showing a 90 year old is safer than a 40/50 year old is patently flawed.
I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done and i agree with the person above about retests.

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 09:09

[CorvetteConvert]

julian64 said:

CorvetteConvert said:

This is indeed my point, we ban drunk drivers, we ban drugged drivers and you instantly compared them to very old drivers. That is what i am saying, they are all high risk drivers!
Young drivers crash generally through inexperience or an excess of zeal!

Oh, thats okay then. When I get T boned on a roundabout it will make a hugh difference that the accident was caused by inexperience or an excess of zeal rather than they just didn't see me.

Just out of interest who are the highest risk drivers on the road in your opinion, and why aren't you focussing your efforts at them?

I have done. I fronted a group of people campaigning (many years ago) to get the alcohol limit dropped by 50%. That does not change the fact that people like my father in law are a liability on the roads, because of the deterioration in their physical and mental abilities because of the process of reaching the twilight of your life.
Of course this will split opinion, but the old fella is a perfect example as is the dead 27 year old today minding his business driving the right way down the M1. RIP.

[CorvetteConvert]

yonex said:

Age limit, no. Mandatory driving test every five years for everyone, yes. But since when have the Police and our ruling parties been interested in safety?

This is the sort of thing i am wondering about, hence why i said 'something else?'.

[CorvetteConvert]

Mr2Mike said:

CorvetteConvert said:

I disagree.
An 87 year old will have the problems i listed above and you cannot tell me that makes them safer than say, YOU. Does it? The statistics showing a 90 year old is safer than a 40/50 year old is patently flawed.
I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done and i agree with the person above about retests.

So you'd have no qualms about removing your dads freedom? Nice. Also why have you suddenly jumped from discussing 80 year olds to 90 year olds? There can't be many 90 YOs on the road, I suspect the risk they pose will be in the noise compared to the rest of the driving population.

If you really want to remove a high risk group from the road then you need to take a look at young drivers.

I would have no qualms about his or MY freedom, if either of us are a danger to us or others, no. You take away the freedom of someone who had a pint too much Fosters or has mild epilepsy so yeah, freedom is irrelevant if safety is at stake, obviously!!!

[CorvetteConvert]

TooMany2cvs said:

CorvetteConvert said:

I know what my father in law drives like, now he is 89. He was a driver in the forces and a very good one indeed, driving everything from wagon and drags to jeeps to chauffeur cars. But i have been out with him a few times recently and i am afraid like most people his age, he is hesitant, he doesn't see like he used to, or hear the same, so he waits forever for a gap big enough to allow 6 cars out, never mind him and he is very apt to forgetting to signal, etc.
For my sins i think something should be done

So what have you done to persuade your father to stop driving? Or have you just confiscated his keys, cancelled his insurance, and sent his licence back to DVLA without his consent?

Oh, what's that? He's still driving? Something must be done! Stop him!

At which of your future birthdays will you be voluntarily ceasing to drive, regardless of faculties or skill?

We do his shopping for him so he doesn't have to.
He and his friend he plays Bridge with are both indecisive and a constant pain to other road users because of their indecision and lack of awareness when they go out together, taking turns to do the driving each week. When we can't take him somewhere he goes alone and his wife says he is hopeless in traffic and she won't even go on the motorway with him.
What age? I have NO desire to drive after 80 years old whatsoever. Assuming my health holds good i will hang up my keys around the 80 mark.
But it's fine most people say no age ban, many say leave it as it is and many say retesting. That's why i asked, i wanted to know. One or two need to calm down and retrieve the toys tbh.

[CorvetteConvert]

LankyLegoHead said:

I think more regular re-testing is needed. Whilst statistics may not favour me as a younger driver (I'm 23), I already have Sky high insurance to put me off driving. Not to mention the fact I can't even rent a car without paying silly money too!

The problem is, whilst I passed my test on modern roads, they didn't. How can their driver training still be applicable if they don't even understand how a motorway works? I totally understand it's only the "few" that do this. But you only have to get stuck behind an elderly driver to see some of their dangerous habits. It's not just that either, its the medical side of things.

And before anyone says it, I'm not siding with Younger drivers. 99% of them are tts too. But as said, there's already so much against us to start with (Expensive, increasingly difficult testing. Expensive cars, expensive insurance).

Good points. When 87 years olds passed their test it was VERY different.

[CorvetteConvert]

dcb said:

Vaud said:

Maybe every ten years to 60, then every 5 years, then every 2 years after 80.

+1

Interestingly, older drivers (>= 70) have to *self* certify that
they are ok to drive.

No eye check, no reaction time check, no basic check of driving competency,
no basic check of anything, just trust that the driver will be honest.

Few drivers will voluntarily give up their driving freedom.

This self certify system seems wide open to abuse to me and needs
tightening up if the majority of drivers want reduced insurance premiums
anytime soon.

+1

[CorvetteConvert]

Pickled said:

dcb said:

+1

Interestingly, older drivers (>= 70) have to *self* certify that
they are ok to drive.

No eye check, no reaction time check, no basic check of driving competency,
no basic check of anything, just trust that the driver will be honest.

Few drivers will voluntarily give up their driving freedom.

This self certify system seems wide open to abuse to me and needs
tightening up if the majority of drivers want reduced insurance premiums
anytime soon.

My Father-In-Law, in his mid seventies, had a TIA last month, told not to drive for a month, went to the doctor said he was feeling ok to drive, doc said fine carry on - now since his TIA he's had reduced mobility in his right arm and leg, gets very confused, struggles to operate a microwave, yet is still allowed to drive.
I have voiced my opinion to both him and the mother-in-law, that he shouldn't be driving, and they certainly won't be taking our daughter out in the car with him driving! I just got the "well the Dr said he's ok to drive".

PREcisely!

[CorvetteConvert]

Bennet said:

JonRB said:

Impasse said:

Sir Stirling is 86. I'd ban a plethora of PHers based on their driving ability before banning him based solely on his age.

Indeed. I was going to post something similar but thought that I should read through the thread first to check if someone already did.

Unless the OP is a driving god, I would hazard a guess that Sir Stirling Moss is a better driver than the OP is.

Which would be a good point well made, except that the OP didn't actually demand we ban everyone over age x. He just mentioned it as a possibility and asked for other ideas.

Thank you. PHers really need to be less aggressive when someone posts a genuine question.
One guy was taken apart last week by several people, for asking what car he should buy, in essence. LIGHTEN T F up!

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 13:52

[CorvetteConvert]

Not really?
Tell that to the family of the 27 year old killed today, or the entire family wiped out by the 86 year old going the wrong way down the M6.
If YOUR wife or daughter or maybe both was/were wiped out by a guy of almost 90 driving north on the southbound M1 would you think differently? I say you would.

[CorvetteConvert]

mygoldfishbowl said:

CorvetteConvert said:

We do his shopping for him so he doesn't have to.
He and his friend he plays Bridge with are both indecisive and a constant pain to other road users because of their indecision and lack of awareness when they go out together, taking turns to do the driving each week. When we can't take him somewhere he goes alone and his wife says he is hopeless in traffic and she won't even go on the motorway with him.
What age? I have NO desire to drive after 80 years old whatsoever. Assuming my health holds good i will hang up my keys around the 80 mark.
But it's fine most people say no age ban, many say leave it as it is and many say retesting. That's why i asked, i wanted to know. One or two need to calm down and retrieve the toys tbh.

How old are you now?

25 years to go!

[CorvetteConvert]

Sump said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Not really?
Tell that to the family of the 27 year old killed today, or the entire family wiped out by the 86 year old going the wrong way down the M6.
If YOUR wife or daughter or maybe both was/were wiped out by a guy of almost 90 driving north on the southbound M1 would you think differently? I say you would.

It's the equivalent of saying.

Tell that to the family of the 27 year old killed today, or the entire family wiped out by the cat owner going the wrong way down the M6.
If YOUR wife or daughter or maybe both was/were wiped out by a cat owner of almost 90 driving north on the southbound M1 would you think differently? I say you would.

I think there needs to be some sort of exam that must be passed before you're allowed access to the internet. I think efforts should be made here instead.

Your opinion is one i respect you have the right to hold.

[CorvetteConvert]

0000 said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Not really?
Tell that to the family of the 27 year old killed today, or the entire family wiped out by the 86 year old going the wrong way down the M6.
If YOUR wife or daughter or maybe both was/were wiped out by a guy of almost 90 driving north on the southbound M1 would you think differently? I say you would.

So we need to add age limits until there are no accidents left at all?

Thanks for telling me to think to think of my family, I'd totally forgotten about them and if they were killed on the motorway the thing I'd be most concerned about would definitely be how many birthday parties someone else had had.

You'd be pretty depressed when you found out it was a complete idiot driving the wrong way down the M1. Accidents happen, but we can get rid of many accidents by tackling some of the causes. One of the many causes is poeple at the wheel who are way past their best in respect of; sight/hearing/awareness/the ability to stay awake/reaction times/decision making in a hurry/etc

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 15:20

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 15:21

[CorvetteConvert]

0000 said:

So we need to add age limits until there are no accidents left at all?

We already do, you can't drive if you are too young. Too old is just as relevant.
You don't get A and E staff working at 90 years old, shall we let them work until they are 100 as well?

[CorvetteConvert]

Anyway, thanks for the input, i personally feel the way forward is a test every year from 75, paid for by the person who wishes to drive after that age, testing basic road knowledge, eye sight, hearing, the ability to make judgements and a basic car handling assessment. Nothing complicated, just making sure they have a basic level of ability and awareness.
Then at 90, it's thank you and good night.

[CorvetteConvert]

thelawnet1 said:

CorvetteConvert said:

So we need to add age limits until there are no accidents left at all?

We already do, you can't drive if you are too young. Too old is just as relevant.
You don't get A and E staff working at 90 years old, shall we let them work until they are 100 as well?

Right, we should increase the minimum age limit to drive.

When we've sorted out the young drivers, we can move on to the elderly ones.

Sounds good.

[CorvetteConvert]

Because just one life is worth saving in my book, but there would be maybe 100 saved every year in the UK if people simply too old and unable weren't at the wheel.

Edited by CorvetteConvert on Monday 12th October 15:46

[CorvetteConvert]

ITP said:

CorvetteConvert said:

Anyway, thanks for the input, i personally feel the way forward is a test every year from 75, paid for by the person who wishes to drive after that age, testing basic road knowledge, eye sight, hearing, the ability to make judgements and a basic car handling assessment. Nothing complicated, just making sure they have a basic level of ability and awareness.
Then at 90, it's thank you and good night.

Makes sense to me. There aren't many older folk who give would give up their licence if they didn't have to. Sometimes they stop AFTER they have had an accident, but this may be too late, as is the sad case that prompted this thread.

My grandfather gave his own in sometime in his early 80's, he was ok, but I think he had a bit of a scare one day not long after he'd swapped his Singer chamois for a Morris marina 1.3 and he'd been spooked by the extra power!

What he said.