Forgive me: what car?
Discussion
Driving back and forth to France / French Alps four or five times a year is taking its toll on my wallet; the MPG on my trusty old 07 W164 ML is not great despite a 7th top gear. I need a more modern (read - dare I say it - more economical) 4x4 to do the journey.
It has to be 4wd, luxurious so that the 12 hours behind the wheel doesn't phase me - and hopefully double my MPG / half my fuel costs - which over the next few years will probably amount to a few thousand quid... I get around the 20 mpg mark currently.
It'd be easy if I had an unlimited budget but really, 12 to 16k max...
I see the smaller 4x4s like the Q5 or X3 and the X3 I've sat in, especially, seemed tiny inside. Any tips...
It has to be 4wd, luxurious so that the 12 hours behind the wheel doesn't phase me - and hopefully double my MPG / half my fuel costs - which over the next few years will probably amount to a few thousand quid... I get around the 20 mpg mark currently.
It'd be easy if I had an unlimited budget but really, 12 to 16k max...
I see the smaller 4x4s like the Q5 or X3 and the X3 I've sat in, especially, seemed tiny inside. Any tips...
Thanks; yes a treg; same as ML; fuel will cost as will the Porsche. From what I can tell, if I want large luxurious 4x4 - only the really modern - read expensive - ones will fit 
X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.
X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.
Slushbox said:
LDN said:
Thanks; yes a treg; same as ML; fuel will cost as will the Porsche. From what I can tell, if I want large luxurious 4x4 - only the really modern - read expensive - ones will fit
X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.
Someone else will be along in a minute, but I went through this last year, looking for a 4x4. The X-trails and Qashqai seem to have varying reports of reliability, the CRV has varying reports of how the 4x4 systems work, or don't, and the Kia-Thing seems capable if uninspiring. X-Trail, Kia thing, Qashqai 4wd, CRV? It doesn't need to climb rock faces - but winter in some parts of the Alps will test a car - so it should be capable.
A lot of the newer crossovers now use 'on-demand' electro-clutches in the rear diff, so improve economy, and it might be useful to Google pics and see what the Alpine and German locals are driving.
It seems that test-drives are in order, but do include the Tiguan, plus a little over for winter-tyres.
There are a couple of left-field options, the new 2015 Suzuki Vitara and S-Cross are available in electro-clutch on-demand 4x4 versions, as is the noble but unexciting RAV4. All can be seen cavorting about in snowy You-Tube vids, with the requisite knobbly rubber.
RammyMP said:
LDN said:
Love the Benz... ground clearance may be an issue unfortunately...
Just spent an hour researching XC60's - seem to tick many boxes and can get 40 ish mpg depending on spec - but I've just read reports of leaking windscreens and that it's common; doesn't fill me with confidence
A mate of mines just got a XC60, got in it the other night and guess what, the footwell is full of water!Just spent an hour researching XC60's - seem to tick many boxes and can get 40 ish mpg depending on spec - but I've just read reports of leaking windscreens and that it's common; doesn't fill me with confidence
gizlaroc said:
What W164 have you got?
I have done a few thousand miles in a 350cdi over the last couple of years, my old mans, nice enough car, fairly decent load space (although boot is small for the size of the car) interior is OK if nothing more than that though, but the MPG is poor. OBC says 29 most of the time. Does seem to matter what journeys, it always ends up back at 28/29. Calculated is about 26/27 though.
Last autumn I went through all the above trying to find something a bit newer and more economical than my old Ml270, which I bought when I didn't get on with my E350 estate, bought as a stop gap for a month or two and kept for 2 years.
I tried the XC60, Q5, FL2, Evoque, X3, GLA, W166 ML and new X5.
In the end the X3 won, it was comfier than the other, felt more fun, and so much better economy wise.
The other thing was the infotainment and connectivity made all the others look so dated and so many more used ones had decent options, heather seats and steering wheel, adaptive xenons, decent nav, internet, bluetooth with audio streaming, ipod connectivity with album art etc., pano roof, blah blah blah.
I get 37mpg from it just round town, and a genuine 50mpg on a run. It is only the 20d, but have a CRD-T+ on it and 0-60 is now just over 7 seconds and it is quicker than the ML350 and never feels lacking.
The OBC was well out, often showed close to 60mpg on a run, but I calibrated it and now absolutely bang on.
The XC60 was struggling to hit 35 on the day I had it, FL2 was 32mpg, Evoque was better but only 35mpg and far too small and flash looking for me, Q5 was quite nice to be fair, but not a patch on the X3, GLA was tiny but quite economical.
The new X5 was OK, but actually far more crashy than the X3, didn't ride anywhere near as well.
The ML350 was better than the W164 and much nicer interior, but it was only hitting 30mpg.
I was basically looking for something to do 20k miles a year in that was comfortable, practical, also fun to drive and cheap to run. The X3 hit all those criteria.
A year on I seriously can't fault it, in fact it is getting better and better, my problem with it is I was using it all the time, as was my wife, so ended up putting 20k miles on it in the first 6-7 months, which was going to slaughter the value. But that is not really a negative.
I did get a 30d for the day when it was serviced, it was around 6-10mpg worse off, a nicer engine for sure, but not worth the sacrifice in economy compared with the mapped 20d. This was a workhorse and it does what it is mean to do so well.
Mine is on 19" wheels with Pirelli P-Zero all seasons, not run flats BTW. When I collected the car BMW had put on 4 new tyres for me, I got 10 miles down the road and realised they had put run flats on, it was crap! Turned round and went back and they fitted proper tyres. So if testing cars, consider this.
Thanks for the response; much appreciated! The W164 is a 320cdi and to be honest, it rarely reads higher than 23mpg on the dash... on the run to France, it will read between 20 and 30.I have done a few thousand miles in a 350cdi over the last couple of years, my old mans, nice enough car, fairly decent load space (although boot is small for the size of the car) interior is OK if nothing more than that though, but the MPG is poor. OBC says 29 most of the time. Does seem to matter what journeys, it always ends up back at 28/29. Calculated is about 26/27 though.
Last autumn I went through all the above trying to find something a bit newer and more economical than my old Ml270, which I bought when I didn't get on with my E350 estate, bought as a stop gap for a month or two and kept for 2 years.
I tried the XC60, Q5, FL2, Evoque, X3, GLA, W166 ML and new X5.
In the end the X3 won, it was comfier than the other, felt more fun, and so much better economy wise.
The other thing was the infotainment and connectivity made all the others look so dated and so many more used ones had decent options, heather seats and steering wheel, adaptive xenons, decent nav, internet, bluetooth with audio streaming, ipod connectivity with album art etc., pano roof, blah blah blah.
I get 37mpg from it just round town, and a genuine 50mpg on a run. It is only the 20d, but have a CRD-T+ on it and 0-60 is now just over 7 seconds and it is quicker than the ML350 and never feels lacking.
The OBC was well out, often showed close to 60mpg on a run, but I calibrated it and now absolutely bang on.
The XC60 was struggling to hit 35 on the day I had it, FL2 was 32mpg, Evoque was better but only 35mpg and far too small and flash looking for me, Q5 was quite nice to be fair, but not a patch on the X3, GLA was tiny but quite economical.
The new X5 was OK, but actually far more crashy than the X3, didn't ride anywhere near as well.
The ML350 was better than the W164 and much nicer interior, but it was only hitting 30mpg.
I was basically looking for something to do 20k miles a year in that was comfortable, practical, also fun to drive and cheap to run. The X3 hit all those criteria.
A year on I seriously can't fault it, in fact it is getting better and better, my problem with it is I was using it all the time, as was my wife, so ended up putting 20k miles on it in the first 6-7 months, which was going to slaughter the value. But that is not really a negative.
I did get a 30d for the day when it was serviced, it was around 6-10mpg worse off, a nicer engine for sure, but not worth the sacrifice in economy compared with the mapped 20d. This was a workhorse and it does what it is mean to do so well.
Mine is on 19" wheels with Pirelli P-Zero all seasons, not run flats BTW. When I collected the car BMW had put on 4 new tyres for me, I got 10 miles down the road and realised they had put run flats on, it was crap! Turned round and went back and they fitted proper tyres. So if testing cars, consider this.
On paper, the X3 ticks a lot of boxes; is yours the newest one or one of the earlier models? Sitting in an earlier X3 after the ML felt like 'honey I shrunk the car' - it really did feel pokey inside - but I suppose it's all relative and the ML is a large cabin. The X3 certainly has great performance, especilly the larger engines but MPG wise, it seems your engine might be the best all-round if you are getting 50mpg on a run! That would halve my fuel bill and as I say, over the years; that amounts to a lot of £££ saved.
Edit to add; I can see you mean the newer X3... will take a look at them now.
Edited by LDN on Friday 27th November 00:23
gizlaroc said:
LDN said:
Thanks for the response; much appreciated! The W164 is a 320cdi and to be honest, it rarely reads higher than 23mpg on the dash... on the run to France, it will read between 20 and 30.
On paper, the X3 ticks a lot of boxes; is yours the newest one or one of the earlier models? Sitting in an earlier X3 after the ML felt like 'honey I shrunk the car' - it really did feel pokey inside - but I suppose it's all relative and the ML is a large cabin. The X3 certainly has great performance, especilly the larger engines but MPG wise, it seems your engine might be the best all-round if you are getting 50mpg on a run! That would halve my fuel bill and as I say, over the years; that amounts to a lot of £££ saved.
Edit to add; I can see you mean the newer X3... will take a look at them now.
If you re getting 23mog from the Ml320 around town, you will probably be down to around 36mpg from the 20 X3 auto. On paper, the X3 ticks a lot of boxes; is yours the newest one or one of the earlier models? Sitting in an earlier X3 after the ML felt like 'honey I shrunk the car' - it really did feel pokey inside - but I suppose it's all relative and the ML is a large cabin. The X3 certainly has great performance, especilly the larger engines but MPG wise, it seems your engine might be the best all-round if you are getting 50mpg on a run! That would halve my fuel bill and as I say, over the years; that amounts to a lot of £££ saved.
Edit to add; I can see you mean the newer X3... will take a look at them now.
Edited by LDN on Friday 27th November 00:23
Yeah, the F25 is a smaller, but strangely after a while you realise a lot of the extra space in the ML is space you don't use, if that makes sense?
Actual comfort it feels pretty similar.
Yes, UK so RHD a must despite spending a lot of time in France. So far, my gut is saying XC60 (windscreen leaks an issue) or a newer X3. Both would halve (or thereabouts) my fuel bill which is considerable, whilst keeoing the ride height, half decent ground clearance and some luxury to boot. Cabin space is a must also and whilst I certainly get the argument for a 4wd saloon / estate - my current ML cabin is massive and I've gotten used to it. I feel claustrophobic in many other cars and so I'll need to see how the newer X3 fares... the original X£, I have been in and it was tiny. Will hopefully look at some after Xmas.
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