B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3 vs. C63 AMG
Discussion
Ok, so B7 RS4 vs. E90 M3 vs. W204 C63 AMG, which would you buy? They all seem to be available for 20-25k (the M3 possibly a bit less) and all offer ample performance and a V8 soundtrack.
When I was 25, my boss had one of the first B7 RS4s and I thought that it was awesome. I drove it once but only a few yards around to the front of the building as it was raining and he didn't want to get wet! The controls felt nice and tight and weighty and I thought that it looked and sounded good too. Having owned a WRX, I also like AWD in a performance car, as you can corner about twice as quickly and stop in half the time
Only joking but I do love the traction and it does inspire some confidence. However, 5 years later my neighbour had a B7 RS4 Avant and I actually thought it looked a bit too blingy (not RS Audi's best effort, as the earlier cars and the current RS4 for that matter look a lot more subtle in a good way) and it was really loud on start-up. I don't know if I want everyone on the estate to know when I've gone out or when I've come home and I think an Audi RS should be more of a Q-car than that. I have also read that they have a surprisingly high bork factor (active dampers leaking and engine coking up etc). Unusually, as estates are a bit of an Audi RS thing, I always preferred the looks of the saloon too but these are quite rare compared to Avants and the other two cars for that matter. Outside of PH, arguably the coolest image though.
For the last few years, I have been convinced that the M3 is the one to have. I like the subtle looks, the engine is a bit more subdued at low revs but still screams at high revs, which for me is a good thing and supposedly, the M3 has the edge for handling but they are very thirsty apparently (although I expect all of these cars are) and I don't know how much of an impact the infamous M-tax has on running costs! This may be offset by slightly lower prices compared to the RS4 and C63 though.
The C63 hasn't interested me much until recently. I have traditionally favoured Mercedes over Audi or BMW but I just think their recent efforts (W204 included) have been brash and ugly. That being said, I saw a black one with straight-spoke alloys the other day and it looked awesome (and evil and mean)! Sounds great too and they seem to be well-liked on PH. In general, I'm also an estate car fan and think the estate version looks just as good and adds an extra dash of practicality to the package (never a bad thing when you're trying to justify a new purchase).
So which one would you buy and why? Which is the best to drive/easiest to live with/least expensive to run etc?
When I was 25, my boss had one of the first B7 RS4s and I thought that it was awesome. I drove it once but only a few yards around to the front of the building as it was raining and he didn't want to get wet! The controls felt nice and tight and weighty and I thought that it looked and sounded good too. Having owned a WRX, I also like AWD in a performance car, as you can corner about twice as quickly and stop in half the time
Only joking but I do love the traction and it does inspire some confidence. However, 5 years later my neighbour had a B7 RS4 Avant and I actually thought it looked a bit too blingy (not RS Audi's best effort, as the earlier cars and the current RS4 for that matter look a lot more subtle in a good way) and it was really loud on start-up. I don't know if I want everyone on the estate to know when I've gone out or when I've come home and I think an Audi RS should be more of a Q-car than that. I have also read that they have a surprisingly high bork factor (active dampers leaking and engine coking up etc). Unusually, as estates are a bit of an Audi RS thing, I always preferred the looks of the saloon too but these are quite rare compared to Avants and the other two cars for that matter. Outside of PH, arguably the coolest image though.For the last few years, I have been convinced that the M3 is the one to have. I like the subtle looks, the engine is a bit more subdued at low revs but still screams at high revs, which for me is a good thing and supposedly, the M3 has the edge for handling but they are very thirsty apparently (although I expect all of these cars are) and I don't know how much of an impact the infamous M-tax has on running costs! This may be offset by slightly lower prices compared to the RS4 and C63 though.
The C63 hasn't interested me much until recently. I have traditionally favoured Mercedes over Audi or BMW but I just think their recent efforts (W204 included) have been brash and ugly. That being said, I saw a black one with straight-spoke alloys the other day and it looked awesome (and evil and mean)! Sounds great too and they seem to be well-liked on PH. In general, I'm also an estate car fan and think the estate version looks just as good and adds an extra dash of practicality to the package (never a bad thing when you're trying to justify a new purchase).
So which one would you buy and why? Which is the best to drive/easiest to live with/least expensive to run etc?
RobM77 said:
I've had a decent drive in the Audi and I must confess I don't know what the fuss is all about. It felt slow, barely sounded like a V8 and the handling was steady but dull. I'm not for one second saying it was a bad car, but to me it didn't feel substantially different from the lesser A4 models - everything that I liked about it would be present in a well specced 2.0TDi. I posted on PH at the time asking whether the car I drove was broken (approved used at an Audi dealer) and was told the lack of performance was fairly normal due to coking issues and 4WD drivetrain losses. To me it felt 330i fast and certainly not M3 fast. I'm not denying it's the easiest for numpties to drive fast on days like today and if that's what you want from a car then that's great, but it's a long way from what I would call a driver's car or in any way interesting.
The M3 I've had quite a nice long drive in (E92, not E90) and I really liked it. The performance is strong - not scary fast, but enough for most people on the road. The handling very neat and fluid, although it can't escape from its 1600kg+ kerb weight and it ultimately feels heavier than a lesser spec 3 series, although the suspension and rear diff are a world apart from your average '3'. The engine is a lovely thing - a high revving V8 producing 400bhp - what's not to like? I'm fairly sure it's the best four seater I've ever driven.
The C63 I haven't really had enough experience of to comment, but the engine sounds glorious, the interior nicely styled and the handling neat enough. It's only available with a torque converter auto, which is a bit annoying, but it's a good choice and well worth a look. At low speed it probably feels the most special of the three due to the engine note.
Picking up from that last note though, personally I'm not a huge fan of super saloons. If you do the maths on the running costs compared to a lesser model (A4 3.0i, 330i, C350), then they cost a lot more to run, whilst feeling the same most of the time (especially on the motorway), in fact noisier due to the big tyres. Personally I'd always plump for a lesser model of saloon in a good spec and spend the savings, in purchase price and running costs, on a dedicated sports car.
So for those who love driving I'd put the M3 first, C63 second and RS4 last; but I'd highly recommend getting a calculator out and the PH classifieds and investigating a two car option. For those who love easy performance, looks or image I can't comment, as those aren't areas I understand.
Thanks. Lots of great replies. I am dithering a bit because I haven't had this kind of budget to play with before and have dreamed of owning something awesome with this level of performance for a long time. It's good to see that all 3 are rated and have their fans. I guess being the older design, the B7 RS4 may well feel a generation behind the others but compared to other high performance Audis, it is also widely regarded to be one of the best driver's Audis ever made. I wouldn't mind a Jaguar as an option and I'm also rather fond of the W211-gen E-Class but in general I prefer something a bit lighter and more compact. The Lexus I overlooked (despite often suggesting it as an alternative myself in these kind of threads) and I guess it might be worth looking into. How do they compare price-wise though? It's easy to overlook I suppose because the RS4 is the AWD one, the M3 has the manual box and the C63 has the insane engine! I did like my Subaru, it was a great all-rounder but something RWD still appeals and without driving them, I think I still favour the M3, although I had a Mercedes once and like them from the comfort aspect.The M3 I've had quite a nice long drive in (E92, not E90) and I really liked it. The performance is strong - not scary fast, but enough for most people on the road. The handling very neat and fluid, although it can't escape from its 1600kg+ kerb weight and it ultimately feels heavier than a lesser spec 3 series, although the suspension and rear diff are a world apart from your average '3'. The engine is a lovely thing - a high revving V8 producing 400bhp - what's not to like? I'm fairly sure it's the best four seater I've ever driven.
The C63 I haven't really had enough experience of to comment, but the engine sounds glorious, the interior nicely styled and the handling neat enough. It's only available with a torque converter auto, which is a bit annoying, but it's a good choice and well worth a look. At low speed it probably feels the most special of the three due to the engine note.
Picking up from that last note though, personally I'm not a huge fan of super saloons. If you do the maths on the running costs compared to a lesser model (A4 3.0i, 330i, C350), then they cost a lot more to run, whilst feeling the same most of the time (especially on the motorway), in fact noisier due to the big tyres. Personally I'd always plump for a lesser model of saloon in a good spec and spend the savings, in purchase price and running costs, on a dedicated sports car.
So for those who love driving I'd put the M3 first, C63 second and RS4 last; but I'd highly recommend getting a calculator out and the PH classifieds and investigating a two car option. For those who love easy performance, looks or image I can't comment, as those aren't areas I understand.
I have also considered the 2 car option. Probably an E90 330i MSport manual as the other two don't really appeal in lesser trims and maybe a TVR/Elise/S2000? I'm not sure though. For by budget, the "fun" car is likely to be a 2-seater and if I only use it at the weekend/in nice weather, how much will I really use it, as I have a really busy life and like to spend the weekend with my 2 kids, which a 2-seater doesn't really fit into!
Tracking them down and driving them will be good fun though and I'll report back when I make that decision.
Ares said:
Also..... "I also like AWD in a performance car, as you can corner about twice as quickly and stop in half the time "
AWD doesn't improve cornering or braking. AWD improves traction. Subaru & EVO drivers who assumed that AWD gave them improved cornering and braking were often the ones that woke up wrapped round a tree!
That was a joke hence the "AWD doesn't improve cornering or braking. AWD improves traction. Subaru & EVO drivers who assumed that AWD gave them improved cornering and braking were often the ones that woke up wrapped round a tree!
but I do like the better traction on wet/icy roads, which is tangible 
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