Bought a rot box, how much to fix?
Discussion
Oh dear. Last week I finally bought myself an ST200 Limited, a car I have fancied since pretty much the day I passed my test. Unfortunately my joy has been short lived as when I put it in the garage to get a couple of bits looked at, they've discovered some nasty rot behind the bodykit (outwardly, the car looks great for it's age).
I'm already in too deep to give up on the car, and to be honest, any model I replace it with stands a chance to have the same issues as even the youngest ones are now 15 years old. Just thought I'd get the opinion of people on here as to what may be vaguely reasonable for a repair.
There are the three patches of the sills that are very poor, and also worth mentioning that there will be a few other bits of underseal to be blasted off and redone (it appears that a previous owner has clagged underseal on top of rust...
).
NSF area
OSR
NSR
Any advice appreciated but please don't anyone say to scrap the car, I appreciate that the sensible thing to do would be to sell it on ebay for parts and use the money as a deposit on a diesel Golf lease. However, I want an ST200, and this one is actually lovely up top, the interior is spotless and well looked after, history is good etc. I can't see any point in selling it for scrap to then try and buy another and probably end up with the same problems, especially as I believe there are only about Limiteds 100 left in the UK...
I'm already in too deep to give up on the car, and to be honest, any model I replace it with stands a chance to have the same issues as even the youngest ones are now 15 years old. Just thought I'd get the opinion of people on here as to what may be vaguely reasonable for a repair.
There are the three patches of the sills that are very poor, and also worth mentioning that there will be a few other bits of underseal to be blasted off and redone (it appears that a previous owner has clagged underseal on top of rust...
).NSF area
OSR
NSR
Any advice appreciated but please don't anyone say to scrap the car, I appreciate that the sensible thing to do would be to sell it on ebay for parts and use the money as a deposit on a diesel Golf lease. However, I want an ST200, and this one is actually lovely up top, the interior is spotless and well looked after, history is good etc. I can't see any point in selling it for scrap to then try and buy another and probably end up with the same problems, especially as I believe there are only about Limiteds 100 left in the UK...
Edited by Blue Oval84 on Wednesday 20th July 00:06
Yeah it'll be getting done properly, the car is likely to be kept for a long, long time so failure to do it right will only be storing up problems.
The plan is to get the body done before the mechanicals, that way if we uncover horrors I can always reassess whether it's worth saving. I suspect there's more under there though as the garage were pointing out areas of fresh underseal...
The plan is to get the body done before the mechanicals, that way if we uncover horrors I can always reassess whether it's worth saving. I suspect there's more under there though as the garage were pointing out areas of fresh underseal...
lilwashu said:
All from looking at pics so may be wrong:
That doesn't bad at all to me - some surface-looking rust on one sill, a bit where someone has grounded out on the underside and a bit where it looks like an MOT place has jacked it up wrong on the other sill causing it to crumple and let water in.
I would be tempted to get the car back and hit the offending areas with a hammer, if they are still strong, grind the rust back as best as possible and put some treatment and underseal on there.
Sorry I should have said, the OSR bit at least is crumbling when poked with a screwdriver, the other bits are slightly better but not by much. The garage reckoned it's a definite welding job (although the bodyshop are yet to see it themselves and give their opinion).That doesn't bad at all to me - some surface-looking rust on one sill, a bit where someone has grounded out on the underside and a bit where it looks like an MOT place has jacked it up wrong on the other sill causing it to crumple and let water in.
I would be tempted to get the car back and hit the offending areas with a hammer, if they are still strong, grind the rust back as best as possible and put some treatment and underseal on there.
You're right about the causes though, it's clear that most of this damage is caused by careless jacking.
Based in Brighton, the car is currently in a nearby BMW specialist who came recommended to me and have done exceptionally good work for friends.
They are recommending a bodyshop who will come out and look at the car on Monday to give me an idea on price. However I thought that I'd ask around to try and get a vague idea of what may be the right ballpark. I normally get major body repairs done up north at a guy in Sunderland who is excellent and cheap too, but as this has potential to be a lot of hassle, if the price is sensible then I'll just get it done down here.
I've no reason not to trust their recommendation as the garage themselves have an outstanding reputation to protect so I would certainly expect the bodyshop to be a good one. I've no intention of cutting corners that's for sure!
They are recommending a bodyshop who will come out and look at the car on Monday to give me an idea on price. However I thought that I'd ask around to try and get a vague idea of what may be the right ballpark. I normally get major body repairs done up north at a guy in Sunderland who is excellent and cheap too, but as this has potential to be a lot of hassle, if the price is sensible then I'll just get it done down here.
I've no reason not to trust their recommendation as the garage themselves have an outstanding reputation to protect so I would certainly expect the bodyshop to be a good one. I've no intention of cutting corners that's for sure!
steveo3002 said:
if its a keeper you need them to cut away all the rot then fabricate a new panel to butt weld and make a lasting repair
The garage specifically mentioned that if I wanted to take it to a different bodyshop then I should ensure they are skilled at fabrication, which I guess means that their own bodyshop guy IS skilled at fabrication. Will certainly ask the question though when the quote comes in, thanks!996TT02 said:
If you don't have the money to do it properly right now, apply lots of rust converter, then cavity wax to get into the nooks and crannies, then some undersealing spray bitumen or similar. And also apply the latter two all over wherever there is no rust yet, too, be very thorough. At least that will stop the problem getting worse until you sort it out.
Anywhere crumbling and flaking - remove all you can by hand, stops rust spreading to other panels in contact.
I think I'm going to have to get it done properly unfortunately. It seems as though a previous owner has taken the "economically restrained" approach to fixing it before as there is definitely new underseal covering good chunks of it...Anywhere crumbling and flaking - remove all you can by hand, stops rust spreading to other panels in contact.
From what I understand, the car lived in Scotland for 11 years. It really shows!
Ozzie Osmond said:
Seriously, how much have you spent on it in the week since you bought it? IMO everything about that car says run like hell before it eats you alive. A winter in Brighton's damp and salty air isn't going to help things at all.
Unfortunately, I spent quite good money on it to get what looked like a full history, low miles, low owner, well looked after car.If I sell now as it is I probably lose £2K assuming I flog it as spare or repairs. If I spend £2K doing everything on it, then I have a car that's probably worth a spot more than I paid for it, but not by much...
TooMany2cvs said:
Have a look at Kitchski's thread about the rot and welding on his BX for the kind of thing we'll be talking about once the Mondeo gets stripped down.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If this car's being viewed as a rare long-term keeper, that's the kind of work that needs to be done. If it's being viewed as short-term fun, either do what's needed for the next MOT or two, or just break it now and keep the bits for a better shell. If you can find one.
I wish I hadn't looked at that, I feel ill now lol.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
If this car's being viewed as a rare long-term keeper, that's the kind of work that needs to be done. If it's being viewed as short-term fun, either do what's needed for the next MOT or two, or just break it now and keep the bits for a better shell. If you can find one.
On the brighter side, my car doesn't appear to have rot as bad as that, I guess we'll know more once the poking around commences!
Eeek! Five figures worth of work? Sweet baby jesus!
I could be tempted to cut and run and try find another one, but in all honesty I'm not sure there will be many out there that are actually in better condition, they are all of the same age now. Everything else about this one checks out apart from this rot underneath.
I really do see myself keeping it for a long time, I sold a MK2 before and bitterly regretted it later, this one is the pinnacle of the MK2 range so I really doubt I'll part with it in a hurry.
Unfortunately however, working on it myself is a total no no at this point in my life, I have absolutely nowhere to do it, I live in a block of flats.
I will however make sure to get detailed information from the bodyshop about what it is that they intend to do with it. I've noticed that you can get new sills for about £20 each, but I think that's just the outer skin, clearly this one needs some work beyond that. I definitely want something better than just welding a piece of metal over the top...
I could be tempted to cut and run and try find another one, but in all honesty I'm not sure there will be many out there that are actually in better condition, they are all of the same age now. Everything else about this one checks out apart from this rot underneath.
I really do see myself keeping it for a long time, I sold a MK2 before and bitterly regretted it later, this one is the pinnacle of the MK2 range so I really doubt I'll part with it in a hurry.
Unfortunately however, working on it myself is a total no no at this point in my life, I have absolutely nowhere to do it, I live in a block of flats.
I will however make sure to get detailed information from the bodyshop about what it is that they intend to do with it. I've noticed that you can get new sills for about £20 each, but I think that's just the outer skin, clearly this one needs some work beyond that. I definitely want something better than just welding a piece of metal over the top...
Tinkshusband said:
someone did something similar with an amg merc on here ( think that was a cat B write off rather than a rust problem tho) put engine and all the nice bits into a nice rust free shell?
I'm not sure that such a shell exists lol.I'll hopefully hear from the garage today with a verdict. They did say at the time not to panic though as in their view it's not affecting any serious structural bits, just sills and bits of the floor that can be relatively easily replaced.
I promise to come back with an update soon!
I think that all ST200s are at that point the cycle where they are worth little, and being scrapped en masse. Good ones are few and far between.
Although the Limited is not exactly ultra rare, they are rather unusual, this is certainly the best one to have come up in a year of searching (daily checks of AT, Ebay and Gumtree, plus scouring PH). As the interior on the Limited is so much more erm, bright (some may say it's an acquired taste!), than a standard model it's definitely the one I'd want.
I agree that a full scale bare metal restoration is not financially viable, but I'm coming round to the idea of fixing the bad bits, then maybe having the surface stuff removed and covered in a proper underseal like Dinitrol, Bilt Hamber, or Waxoyl to slow it down significantly. Certainly enough to give me time to assess what it's like to live with an old car and decide how to play it.
I sold my last MK2 in 2010 and I have to be honest, it didn't really give me much bother, I'm hopeful that once sorted, this one may be the same.
Although the Limited is not exactly ultra rare, they are rather unusual, this is certainly the best one to have come up in a year of searching (daily checks of AT, Ebay and Gumtree, plus scouring PH). As the interior on the Limited is so much more erm, bright (some may say it's an acquired taste!), than a standard model it's definitely the one I'd want.
I agree that a full scale bare metal restoration is not financially viable, but I'm coming round to the idea of fixing the bad bits, then maybe having the surface stuff removed and covered in a proper underseal like Dinitrol, Bilt Hamber, or Waxoyl to slow it down significantly. Certainly enough to give me time to assess what it's like to live with an old car and decide how to play it.
I sold my last MK2 in 2010 and I have to be honest, it didn't really give me much bother, I'm hopeful that once sorted, this one may be the same.
threespires said:
What's an ST200 Limited ?
An ST200, but a saloon version, with a chavtastic two tone leather interior and a different plastic trim on the dash.I love it because there are relatively few around. And I'm a magpie for blue cars, all the better if they have blue seats too
Zerotonine said:
I dumped this money pit in the end, served it on for a major loss. But if it was a ST200 Limited I would have persevered, the mk2 Mondeo had questionable looks but drove beautifully.
Thanks I feel a lot better!! I don't think there's any question about the MK2's looks though, easily one of the all time best looking Fords IMO ETA - if the outer sill skin is in any way rotten then it'll get replaced, a new one is only £23!
Zerotonine said:
It is the labour that costs, and the repaint. In my opinion, the mk2 looks retarded unless it has the RSAP kit. The RSAP makes a dodgy Mondeo look good...
Here it is when I got it, if you are interested.
Not bad for a 205k miler! Pulled like a train!
Certainly am interested, and I should clarify that it's the RSAP models I'm talking about too! Your's looks like it was a lovely car Here it is when I got it, if you are interested.
Not bad for a 205k miler! Pulled like a train!
Time for an update!
The car is booked in for bodywork to include-
Next I just need the mechanicals sorting which will include-
I think it's safe to say that this car would ordinarily have been scrapped by any sane owner, but by the time it's finished it should be a brilliant example, and good for quite a while longer.
I am a bit gutted that it's turned out like this as I honestly thought that I was buying a good one (and paid more for it as a result) but given the work I've ended up doing I could have bought one of the many examples that appeared to be one MOT away from the scrap yard and just fixed it up. At least my interior is pretty much mint.
Ho hum, I still love the car and even when it stands me £5K+, I'll be happy with the result.
The car is booked in for bodywork to include-
- New inner and outer sills
- Floor cut out back to good metal and welding back up where it is holed.
- Spare wheel well repair (found two holes in that!)
- Tow bar removed and any holes welding back up/rustproofing
- New Rear arches
- Respray exterior from the rear up to and including front doors (the edges were damaged, ironically by those door protector things that a previous owner fitted)
Next I just need the mechanicals sorting which will include-
- New Coil pack, HT leads and Sparks
- 2X Front lower arms
- 1X CV Joint
I think it's safe to say that this car would ordinarily have been scrapped by any sane owner, but by the time it's finished it should be a brilliant example, and good for quite a while longer.
I am a bit gutted that it's turned out like this as I honestly thought that I was buying a good one (and paid more for it as a result) but given the work I've ended up doing I could have bought one of the many examples that appeared to be one MOT away from the scrap yard and just fixed it up. At least my interior is pretty much mint.
Ho hum, I still love the car and even when it stands me £5K+, I'll be happy with the result.
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