Someone Dented my P&J and Drove Off
Discussion
Saturday morning and the sun is shining so I decide to use my E30 M3 Sport Evo to take the kids to the Park Run. Parked in the road adjacent to the park and off we went for the run. Upon returning my son who is getting in the passenger (RH side) door complains that the door is stiff. I tell him to man up and get in. Upon arriving back at home, I discover that the RH front wing an door has been pushed in and causing the door to jam up against the wing. Obviously, when parked up someone backed in to my car and drove away leaving a dented wing and door behind. W***ers.
After a quick shower I return to the scene of the bump and try to establish how this may have happened. There are some properties adjacent to the parking space, but no cars present. During subsequent drive pasts I have identified a likely culprit. Opposite the place where I was parked there is a Silver Ford Focus fitted with tow bar (matching the 42cm height of the point of impact on my car), parked front first in a driveway.
At this point there are no witnesses, although the wife has posted up on the local park run social media site and on FB.
What is the PH collective advice? I don’t believe I have anything to take to the Police, who are busy enough.
Do I go around and give them the opportunity to cough up?
After a quick shower I return to the scene of the bump and try to establish how this may have happened. There are some properties adjacent to the parking space, but no cars present. During subsequent drive pasts I have identified a likely culprit. Opposite the place where I was parked there is a Silver Ford Focus fitted with tow bar (matching the 42cm height of the point of impact on my car), parked front first in a driveway.
At this point there are no witnesses, although the wife has posted up on the local park run social media site and on FB.
What is the PH collective advice? I don’t believe I have anything to take to the Police, who are busy enough.
Do I go around and give them the opportunity to cough up?
Thanks for the useful and not so useful, but entertaining suggestions.
I have a VRN, mane and model from a drive past tonight and policy info from the MID. The car is taxed MOT'd and insured.
I will speak to them tomorrow. The worst that could happen in that the deny all knowledge in which case I'm no worse off.
I have a VRN, mane and model from a drive past tonight and policy info from the MID. The car is taxed MOT'd and insured.
I will speak to them tomorrow. The worst that could happen in that the deny all knowledge in which case I'm no worse off.
Thread update time.
I paid the owner of the car a visit and told him I believed his car was reversed in to my car at the stated time and presented him with pictures of the damage including a height measurement of the dent and how that compares exactly with the height of his tow ball which had a cover with a shiny polished area on the rear most side.
He responded by stating his wife backed the car off the drive that morning but came in to the house asking his help as she couldn't negotiate the parked cars in the street. He also stated that he then drove the car away to run the errand his wife was intending to run.
Below is the email traffic between the owner of the suspect car and myself. Chronologically earliest on the top.
On 22 Feb 2016, at 20:54, car owner wrote:
Hi Steven
We are sorting this in good faith despite struggling to afford to do so, despite there being no guarantees of who hit your car and despite your car being parked in a residents permit only zone.
Be assured that you can just knock on my door if you have any issues.
Please see below original message.
Hi Steven
My wife thinks it is possible that she has hit your car so it looks like I am probably going to have to cover the cost of the repair of the panel.
If you can send me the photo of the damage I will make some enquiries.
Kind regards
Car owner
On 24 Feb 2016, at 20:22, car owner wrote:
Hello
The body shop requires a zoomed out image of the damaged panel.
If you can send this and put your reg on the email we will have a clear idea of cost.
Car Owner
On 22 Feb 2016 20:57, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
<image1.JPG>
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Feb 2016 20:58, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
Sir,
Picture attached
The car is a 1990 BMW M3 Sport Evolution.
From: car owner
Sent: 24 February 2016 21:12
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: Re: Car
Yes its a zoomed out image of the damaged panel he needs. If I can get that off you at the weekend we'll take it from there.
On 28 Feb 2016 21:10, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
Sir,
Some more pics for you.
Which body shop are you talking to?
Steve
From: car owner
Sent: 29 February 2016 08:27
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: RE: Car
Was talking to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX car repairs. These pics will now enable them to give me a price .
From: car owner
Sent: 01 March 2016 16:10
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: Car Repair
Hi Steven
I have spoken to the bodyshop and showed him your photos.
He informs me that the cost of repair will be £300.
This is a very large sum for us to cover and as my wife is not completely sure she is responsible, and with the lack of witnesses, we can never be sure, as a gesture of goodwill on my part I am willing cover half of the cost.
If you can get back to me, we can get this sorted asap.
Regards
So, although they haven't stated "yes it was me", there is a tacit admission in the first email and it is implied that they have some responsibility it that they are offering to pay 50/50.
Incidentally, IMO the wing needs replacing along with the broken wheel arch liner.
I paid the owner of the car a visit and told him I believed his car was reversed in to my car at the stated time and presented him with pictures of the damage including a height measurement of the dent and how that compares exactly with the height of his tow ball which had a cover with a shiny polished area on the rear most side.
He responded by stating his wife backed the car off the drive that morning but came in to the house asking his help as she couldn't negotiate the parked cars in the street. He also stated that he then drove the car away to run the errand his wife was intending to run.
Below is the email traffic between the owner of the suspect car and myself. Chronologically earliest on the top.
On 22 Feb 2016, at 20:54, car owner wrote:
Hi Steven
We are sorting this in good faith despite struggling to afford to do so, despite there being no guarantees of who hit your car and despite your car being parked in a residents permit only zone.
Be assured that you can just knock on my door if you have any issues.
Please see below original message.
Hi Steven
My wife thinks it is possible that she has hit your car so it looks like I am probably going to have to cover the cost of the repair of the panel.
If you can send me the photo of the damage I will make some enquiries.
Kind regards
Car owner
On 24 Feb 2016, at 20:22, car owner wrote:
Hello
The body shop requires a zoomed out image of the damaged panel.
If you can send this and put your reg on the email we will have a clear idea of cost.
Car Owner
On 22 Feb 2016 20:57, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
<image1.JPG>
Sent from my iPhone
On 24 Feb 2016 20:58, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
Sir,
Picture attached
The car is a 1990 BMW M3 Sport Evolution.
From: car owner
Sent: 24 February 2016 21:12
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: Re: Car
Yes its a zoomed out image of the damaged panel he needs. If I can get that off you at the weekend we'll take it from there.
On 28 Feb 2016 21:10, "Steven Singleton" wrote:
Sir,
Some more pics for you.
Which body shop are you talking to?
Steve
From: car owner
Sent: 29 February 2016 08:27
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: RE: Car
Was talking to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX car repairs. These pics will now enable them to give me a price .
From: car owner
Sent: 01 March 2016 16:10
To: Steven Singleton
Subject: Car Repair
Hi Steven
I have spoken to the bodyshop and showed him your photos.
He informs me that the cost of repair will be £300.
This is a very large sum for us to cover and as my wife is not completely sure she is responsible, and with the lack of witnesses, we can never be sure, as a gesture of goodwill on my part I am willing cover half of the cost.
If you can get back to me, we can get this sorted asap.
Regards
So, although they haven't stated "yes it was me", there is a tacit admission in the first email and it is implied that they have some responsibility it that they are offering to pay 50/50.
Incidentally, IMO the wing needs replacing along with the broken wheel arch liner.
Because I don't have a witness. I approached them to see if they would admit liability and then offer to go the insurance route. I don't think I have a cast iron admission of liability, and if I approach my insurance, I don't think it will fall in my favour and I'll be left with an excess to pay and loss of no-claims.
Got a couple of quotes for the repair which came in at £400-£450 plus parts which for the wing and liner is £420+VAT.
So I just sent him an email below...
Owner,
I have taken the time to visit two body repair shops today, as I believe a quote of £300 is unrealistic. I come to this opinion as the person who conducted a full restoration of my car and therefore have a full understanding of the realms of possible.
Bartlets Automotive Bodywork Solutions in Dalton, states that the wing is beyond repair and suggests a labour, paint and material cost of £450 plus the cost of a new wing which is £337+VAT and arch liner which is £83+VAT.
Crooklands Auto Body, also in Dalton, also states that the wing is beyond repair and suggests a labour, paint and material cost of £400 plus the cost of a new wing ans liner.
Although we have insurance for such an eventuality where I cause damage or loss to myself and others, this incident is obviously something that I feel I shouldn't be responsible for paying, nor sacrifice my no-claims discount or insurance excess for.
Regards
Steve
Let's see what he has to say? Not holding my breath.
So I just sent him an email below...
Owner,
I have taken the time to visit two body repair shops today, as I believe a quote of £300 is unrealistic. I come to this opinion as the person who conducted a full restoration of my car and therefore have a full understanding of the realms of possible.
Bartlets Automotive Bodywork Solutions in Dalton, states that the wing is beyond repair and suggests a labour, paint and material cost of £450 plus the cost of a new wing which is £337+VAT and arch liner which is £83+VAT.
Crooklands Auto Body, also in Dalton, also states that the wing is beyond repair and suggests a labour, paint and material cost of £400 plus the cost of a new wing ans liner.
Although we have insurance for such an eventuality where I cause damage or loss to myself and others, this incident is obviously something that I feel I shouldn't be responsible for paying, nor sacrifice my no-claims discount or insurance excess for.
Regards
Steve
Let's see what he has to say? Not holding my breath.
Hi Steve
The body shop that gave me the quote committed to that price even though he was aware that the man hours may actually warrant a higher price. They are a reputable firm and a client of mine. I have witnessed their good work on other valuable cars and they have guaranteed a spot on job. I am clearly not going to pay £700+ plus vat when an expert who I trust has guaranteed the restoration at at a rate I think is reasonable.
As discussed previously we can't be 100 percent sure that my wife is at fault and you knocked on my door on the basis that the damage is at the same height as our towbar. As a gesture of goodwill we are willing to contribute to the repair but If the price is going to escalate beyond a reasonable contribution on our part we are clearly struggling to reach a solution.
I have no reason to believe that the work carried out by the company I have received the quote from will not be suitable.
Therefore I think a more than fare contribution on my part would be £240. This figure represents the cost of the repair I received the quote for, minus the would be penalty for your illegally parked vehicle. After all, if it hadn't been illegally parked, the accident would not have occurred.
I think it is fair that either we use my quote and you contribute the £60 or I will contribute £240 to your choice of quote.
I feel we are being more than fair on this matter given that no one can be sure who actually damaged your car and I look forward to a swift and amicable solution.
Kind regards
Car Owner
The body shop that gave me the quote committed to that price even though he was aware that the man hours may actually warrant a higher price. They are a reputable firm and a client of mine. I have witnessed their good work on other valuable cars and they have guaranteed a spot on job. I am clearly not going to pay £700+ plus vat when an expert who I trust has guaranteed the restoration at at a rate I think is reasonable.
As discussed previously we can't be 100 percent sure that my wife is at fault and you knocked on my door on the basis that the damage is at the same height as our towbar. As a gesture of goodwill we are willing to contribute to the repair but If the price is going to escalate beyond a reasonable contribution on our part we are clearly struggling to reach a solution.
I have no reason to believe that the work carried out by the company I have received the quote from will not be suitable.
Therefore I think a more than fare contribution on my part would be £240. This figure represents the cost of the repair I received the quote for, minus the would be penalty for your illegally parked vehicle. After all, if it hadn't been illegally parked, the accident would not have occurred.
I think it is fair that either we use my quote and you contribute the £60 or I will contribute £240 to your choice of quote.
I feel we are being more than fair on this matter given that no one can be sure who actually damaged your car and I look forward to a swift and amicable solution.
Kind regards
Car Owner
UPDATE:
After getting tired of dealing with this twerp, I obtained the owner's insurance details from ASKMID and made a call to his insurer.
I explained that their insured party had damaged my car and I would like to make a claim. The person who took my call was deeply unimpressed that their policy holder hadn't reported an accident. They asked if the insured party had admitted liability, and I explained the series of emails. Copies of emails sent over with pictures of both cars.
Two weeks goes by and I call for an update. I'm informed that the insured party is contesting the admittion of liability and seeking legal advice. Good luck with that, I hope that advice costs you I think to myself
Another week goes by and I receive a phone call stating that the insured party has admitted liability and the insurance company will cover all costs. They gave me the option of the insurance company handling the repair or using my preferred repairer. I am currently awaiting a quote from my preferred body shop.
After getting tired of dealing with this twerp, I obtained the owner's insurance details from ASKMID and made a call to his insurer.
I explained that their insured party had damaged my car and I would like to make a claim. The person who took my call was deeply unimpressed that their policy holder hadn't reported an accident. They asked if the insured party had admitted liability, and I explained the series of emails. Copies of emails sent over with pictures of both cars.
Two weeks goes by and I call for an update. I'm informed that the insured party is contesting the admittion of liability and seeking legal advice. Good luck with that, I hope that advice costs you I think to myself
Another week goes by and I receive a phone call stating that the insured party has admitted liability and the insurance company will cover all costs. They gave me the option of the insurance company handling the repair or using my preferred repairer. I am currently awaiting a quote from my preferred body shop.
aka_kerrly said:
OR alternatively, park somewhere that is legal & doesn't interfere with local residents thus reducing the chances of this happening again.
Legally or illegally parked does does not make the vehicle fair game to damage, nor does it absolve the person involved in the accident of their responsibility to report the incident.Hackney said:
As above, presumably his insurers are deducting £60 for your illegal parking 
Out of interest - and be honest OP - was the car illegally parked?
Does the other guy think it's 7 days permit controlled when it's actually only Mon to Fri or something?
Out of interest - and be honest OP - was the car illegally parked?
Does the other guy think it's 7 days permit controlled when it's actually only Mon to Fri or something?
shost said:
Where did it become fact that your car was parked illegally?
As it happens I was illegally parked, not deliberately I hasten to add and it is a fact I never disputed. I did not realise it was residents only.
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