Define Hot Hatch

[EnglishTony]

As the title says, in your own words please.

[EnglishTony]

I think I am going to have to disagree on the Golf R. Not only does it have 6 cylinders but it's just not a hot hatch. I'll go with Ultra Hatch though, to include the Focus RS (2 and 3), the Merc 4wd thing and RS/S 3 Audis.

The Escort Cosworth counts, for me, as a Homogolation special along with the Integrales and Group B stuff.

Finally, no a Golf TDI isn't a Hot Hatch.

[EnglishTony]

TheJimi said:

EnglishTony said:

I think I am going to have to disagree on the Golf R. Not only does it have 6 cylinders

The 'R is a four banger, dude.

All of them? In any case it's an Ultra Hatch in my estimation.

[EnglishTony]

Seat TDI, no.
Pulsar GTR, Homogolation
Focus ST, yes
Renault 5 mid engine turbo thing, arguably world's 1st Ultra Hatch

[EnglishTony]

ikarl said:

In your first post your ask for people's description of what makes a hot hatch, then pull them apart and come up with your own "rules".... even though I'm sure most disagree with them... I mean, a pulsar gtir not a hot hatch?? Wtf?!

Tiresome.

So by starting the thread I have forfeited the opportunity to express my opinion? Crickey, that is tiresome.

[EnglishTony]

300bhp/ton said:

EnglishTony said:

Seat TDI, no.
Pulsar GTR, Homogolation
Focus ST, yes
Renault 5 mid engine turbo thing, arguably world's 1st Ultra Hatch

So why does homoligation mean it isn't a hot hatch? Maybe sports cars aren't sports cars either if they are raced

And if a petrol car with the same power is a hot hatch, then a diesel is too.

It's my opinion. Others are available. They are, however, wrong.

[EnglishTony]

HF 4WD, hot hatch..
Integrale, homogolation special.

That's not difficult surely?

Escort RS 2000 4WD, another homogolation special. As was the Escort Cosworth and the car it was based on, the Sierra Cosworth.

Wheras the Subaru Impreza WRX STI 5 door was too hot to be a hot hatch but not a homogolation special (unlike it's ancestors) so is an Ultra Hatch.

Or does anybody want to argue that the Imprezas and Lancer Evo where just ordinary fast saloons and not homogolation specials?

[EnglishTony]

300bhp/ton said:

EnglishTony said:

HF 4WD, hot hatch..
Integrale, homogolation special.

That's not difficult surely?

They are essentially the same vehicle. So you are correct, it shouldn't be difficult. It should be 100% obvious. Yet still seems to baffle so many it's not true.

Oh and for the record, most of those 44,000 cars are Intergrale's not HF 4WD's. Do you seriously expect anyone to believe homoligation specials run to such extreme numbers? Most Grp B cars totalled 25-500 cars. And extreme cases for Grp A maybe 1500 or so. Not 44,000 cars. Are you not able to comprehend that size of a number??? To put that in perspective, Lotus only built around 11,000 S1 Elise's.

Just because it's a sales success doesn't mean it's not a homogolation special.

Look at the numbers of Evos or Imprezas sold. Both are homogolation specials.

[EnglishTony]

300bhp/ton said:

EnglishTony said:

Just because it's a sales success doesn't mean it's not a homogolation special.

Look at the numbers of Evos or Imprezas sold. Both are homogolation specials.

Erm no. Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. But I'm sure you'll continue to ignore facts and carry on as you are regardless, so ho hum.


Hint:

Some Impreza's were built for homologation, the WRX Type RA for example or Spec C. These are very specific variants. The rest of them are not, they are just normal production cars, same as any other model from any other maker.

Do you think Ford, Nissan, VW, Lancia, Subaru or Mitsubshi would have produced these cars if the rally regs stipulated, for example, 2 door coupes?

[EnglishTony]

300bhp/ton said:

EnglishTony said:

Do you think Ford, Nissan, VW, Lancia, Subaru or Mitsubshi would have produced these cars if the rally regs stipulated, for example, 2 door coupes?

Do you actually look anything up before posting, to maybe check to see if your opinion is actually correct or not?

But please continue to ignore common sense and facts...

Answer the question please. If that could be done that without resorting to abusive comments I would appreciate it.

[EnglishTony]

What, you mean like the Group B regulations?

In as much as the cars were built to the regs, yes.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Difficult to answer that without being abusive so I won't bother