In the news - Jaguar Land Rover Manager - Road Rage Crash

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http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-26/driver-in-road-...

A very, very sad story.

A custodial sentence definitely in order for this utter tool. Bet he won't feel so big and powerful and protected by his super macho chintz mobile when he's making friends behind bars. Hopefully will also serve as a lesson to others, particularly those that behave in a similar fashion, driving in an aggressive, bullying way. We're all just trying to get around FFS. Don't be pr**ks.

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AJXX1 said:

I can't work out from the video if he lost control or just literally drove head on into the dash cam car?

I've watched a few times now and it seems fairly clear from the video and the witness testitomonies he made the turn on purpose as he was chasing down the Mazda that was trying to get away. The Mercedes had been in front, in between Discovery and Mazda, but he undertook the Mercedes and attempted the turn almost in the same manoeuvre.

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Deerfoot said:

Looked like a case of red mist to me, he was totally focused on chasing the other car.

Fairly typical (although obviously an extreme example) of the kind of behaviour drivers of cars like this often seem to think is ok. Tailgating their way around the country with their little fairy lights twinkling away assuming for some reason that everyone is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible. Utter brainless, selfish, arrogant tools the lot of them.

Edited to clarify that "tools the lot of them" refers to all those who drive like tools. Which should be obvious but clearly isn't to some. I don't think everyone driving a nice car is a tool so try not to get so upset over this and direct your anger to the driver.

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 11:05

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 11:07

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alec.e said:

Very sad and terrible driving from the JLR Driver.

But no need for the OP to tar all SUV drivers with the same brush.

"kind of behaviour drivers of cars like this often seem to think is ok"

That's not "all" is it. I also didn't specify SUVs.

Edit to also add that, after re-reading my earlier post, and the offence it caused, I should clarify that "Utter brainless, selfish, arrogant tools the lot of them." was referring to the drivers that assume "for some reason that everyone is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible", and categorically not to all drivers of "cars like this".

But, I would maintain, that anecdotally, in my experience, drivers of "cars like this" (by which I meant expensive, powerful, prestige etc, and not necessarily SUVs) are more likely to be excessively aggressive in their driving manner. There is probably someone more intelligent than me that has carried out research into the types of personalities that 'typically' drive such cars, and/or the effect that driving such cars can have on the manner of driving.

Anyway, that is all very inconsequential in the scheme of things. As mentioned above, hopefully this sorry episode will make at least one silly little boy think twice before losing his cool and having a temper tantrum at the wheel.

Edited by nffcforever on Thursday 26th May 22:02

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Jimmy Recard said:

No, you're just a bell end. As is the man who caused this collision.

The type of car is irrelevant.

How very pleasant of you. No, actually rather aggressive. A Discovery driver by any chance?


Edit to also add that, after re-reading my earlier post, and the offence it caused, I should clarify that "Utter brainless, selfish, arrogant tools the lot of them." was referring to the drivers that assume "for some reason that everyone is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible", and categorically not to all drivers of "cars like this".

But, I would maintain, that anecdotally, in my experience, drivers of "cars like this" (by which I meant expensive, powerful, prestige etc, and not necessarily SUVs) are more likely to be excessively aggressive in their driving manner. There is probably someone more intelligent than me that has carried out research into the types of personalities that 'typically' drive such cars, and/or the effect that driving such cars can have on the manner of driving.

Anyway, that is all very inconsequential in the scheme of things. As mentioned above, hopefully this sorry episode will make at least one silly little boy think twice before losing his cool and having a temper tantrum at the wheel.

Edited by nffcforever on Thursday 26th May 23:19

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Slimbull said:

Absolutely.

So you don't agree that people that drive around assuming everyone else is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible are tools then?

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Slimbull said:

Absolutely.

Or are you suggesting I'm a bell end because, in my experience, drivers of cars that are commonly seen as status symbols tend to be more aggressive? If you don't agree with that, that's obviously okay. I don't think it's really a reason to label me a bell end.

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A.J.M said:

He believes that people who drive like that are tools.

The choice of car they use be it a 4x4 or an Audi A1 isn't the issue.

Trying to tar a whole car segment on the stupidity of one driver is what some people are annoyed at.

This is a good reason why road rage is not worth it. Keeping calm and being the better person wouldn't have seen that poor family suffer in such a horrible and cruel way.

I appreciate the grown up response on behalf of our fellow 'contributor'; however, I wasn't trying to tar a whole car segment! It's got nothing to do with the car - I agree. It doesn't drive itself after all (yet!). It's the driver isn't it. But, let's get real here, can we honestly say that could just have easily been a driver of a Nissan Note, a Renault Captur or a Peugeot 2008??

Interestingly, it seems some of those who have taken offence have or have previously had a Land Rover of some description. So I understand if they are upset that I don't very much like the look of the fairy lights.

Edited by nffcforever on Thursday 26th May 23:13

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1. Not anti 4x4; didn't mention 4x4 or SUV or similar.

2. I've explained what I meant by "cars like this". I've reposted it twice already.

3. I didn't say "all" or "every" or "you in your twinkly lit Discovery tree".

4. A lot of football fans are thugs. Most aren't. Quite a lot of drivers of "cars like this" drive like tools. Most don't. More do than drivers of cars like a Nissan Note.

5. It's not personal. I don't dislike "cars like this". I just wish more could.be driven properly. I'm not judging anyone's driving individually.

6. I really don't like the fairy lights, especially from 4ft away.

Edited by nffcforever on Thursday 26th May 23:51

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saaby93 said:

TheJimi said:

I've seen aggressive driving from all manner of vehicles on the road. I genuinely couldn't even begin to draw correlations between the type of car driven and the propensity of that type to being driven by aggressive people.

It is possible statistically that a particular type of driver buys a particular type of car
The converse inst true that everyone who buys that type of car is that type of driver

Insurance accident stats are similar and why we've previously discussed relatively high premium for say a 17 year in a Corsa but relatively low in say a Passat.

Of American origin, but...

http://www.popcenter.org/problems/aggressive_drivi...

Research suggests that the single largest group of aggressive American drivers is poorly educated white men under 30 years old who drive high-performance vehicles.13 There is a strong correlation between such young white men and violent crimes, serious traffic offenses, license suspensions, and minor moving violations. These young white men also appear to be the most likely group to engage in more extreme road rage behaviors.14 They may be more prone to have antisocial, hostile personalities (as described in the next section). In general, younger people tend to lack the impulse control gained with age, and men tend toward more aggressive behavior than women.

Because members of this group so often break traffic laws, they will be disproportionately represented in any traffic enforcement effort. Accordingly, police officers will contact the most dangerous drivers by enforcing the entire range of moving violations.15

While young white men are the largest single group of aggressive drivers, there is no single definitive profile of aggressive-driving perpetrators.16 Otherwise law-abiding citizens commit many aggressive driving acts.17

Personality or Individual Traits

There appear to be two primary personality types prone to becoming aggressive behind the wheel. One is an antisocial, hostile personality; the other, a competitive one.18 Antisocial drivers are associated with the young white male group. There is significant overlap between the factors associated with antisocial driving and those associated with criminal behavior.19 These include:

impulsiveness,
sensation-seeking,
unrealistic thinking (underestimating risks and overrating abilities to handle problems),
poor problem-solving skills,
egocentricity (lacking concern for others' well-being), and
values (caring only about oneself).20
This antisocial group of drivers is prone to hostile aggression in and out of their vehicles. Antisocial drivers have high rates of accidents and violations and are many times more likely than the general driving population to have criminal histories.21

Retaliation and revenge are common motives for antisocial drivers who feel disrespected, slighted, infringed-upon, or endangered. This same motive is common in domestic violence, gang violence, theft, and arson.22 Seemingly trivial events such as perceived insults to drivers' self-image or safety most often provoke driving anger. These triggering events tap into a deep well of anger already present in the antisocial driver.

Triggering incidents can include frustrations such as slow, hesitant, or distracted drivers; scares such as near-collisions; offensive behaviors such as rude gestures; and territorial encroachments such as competing for a parking space or failure to yield.23 These acts are not intrinsically aggression-inducing; it is the way a person interprets them and how the person reacts to that interpretation that causes the acts to trigger aggression.24

The second group of aggressive drivers appears prone to socially approved forms of aggression such as competition, which can easily be translated into aggressive driving behaviors. Competitive drivers dislike being passed, enjoy the thrill of speeding, and lack the internal controls to override their competitiveness on the road. Research has shown that both the antisocial and the competitive drivers have significantly more accidents and traffic violations than the general driving public.25

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swerni said:

Sad story, OP is a bell end with a rather large chip.

Hello. As you've decided to come in here and call a complete stranger a bell end would you care to set out which part(s) of my opinion you don't agree with, and why?

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Sump said:

I'm amazed you turned such a straightforward thread into something completely retarded by your own doing.

Another meaningful contribution. I'd argue it's those throwing their bell ends about and making vacuous comments that are derailing any discussion.

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swerni said:

What is a very sad story has been used to highlight your own petty and childish agenda.

sad.

Or to highlight, to a group of people with an interest in cars and driving, the possible consequences of letting your temper get the better of you. And, to spark a perfectly valid discussion about whether, or not, aggressive driving is more prevalent amongst drivers of certain types of vehicles. Whether the type of car can lead to more aggressive behaviour, or whether particular personality types possibly gravitate to certain types of vehicle.

It's just an opinion. There really is no need to be so worked up.

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 07:59

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berlintaxi said:

Seriously the only person de-railing the thread is you, nobody sane would disagree that the driver was a complete knob and deserves everything that is coming to him, unfortunately you are trying to turn the thread into some personal crusade that all 4x4 drivers are wkers, which is not the case.

So I'm not supposed to respond when someone's saunters in and calls me a bell end for having an opinion they don't like?

I've also spelt out very, very clearly that I'm not singling out 4x4s. If you have poor reading comprehension then that is unfotunate.

My 4th post concluded: "Anyway, that is all very inconsequential in the scheme of things. As mentioned above, hopefully this sorry episode will make at least one silly little boy think twice before losing his cool and having a temper tantrum at the wheel."

Unfortunately, as someone else said, a number of you can't help but get your knickers in a twist.

Let this be the end.

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 07:51

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REALIST123 said:

You haven't read this thread, have you?

Or maybe just possibly he/she does experience this and has prepared him/herself for being called a bell end.

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 08:17

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Mafffew said:

Driver is a knob, should be shot etc.


Plenty of knobbers in plenty of different cars. The stereotype of flash car/tt driver is nonsense created by morons and those with an inferiority complex. All good fun when said in jest/banter though.

Any evidence of that, or just your opinion? I can assure you I don't feel inferior.

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Mafffew said:

Driver is a knob, should be shot etc.


Plenty of knobbers in plenty of different cars. The stereotype of flash car/tt driver is nonsense created by morons and those with an inferiority complex. All good fun when said in jest/banter though.

Just for example: http://usa.streetsblog.org/2013/07/16/study-wealth...

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saaby93 said:

Some people ought to read what the OP actually said, rather than turning it around backwards and claiming he said something he didn't

Thank you!

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longblackcoat said:

I've got a little car with 70hp, a medium car with 200hp, and a big car (a 4x4) with 350hp. I drive the same in all of them, albeit at higher speeds in the more powerful ones.

Which is why OP's musings make little sense.

Aggressive people drive aggressively - I've seen utterly mental behaviour from a middle-aged guy in an old Punto - and that's really all there is to it. In this road rage case, it was a JLR company car anyway, so it may not have been the car he'd necessarily have chosen.

That'a good and I wish all were the same but you're essentially a sample size of one.

This relates to a more scientific study:

http://www.roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/4530.html

Research carried out by social psychologists from the London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) has revealed seven driving personalities, based on how drivers deal with their own feelings and their uncertainty as to the behaviour of other road users.

The findings are part of an ongoing study on the social psychology of road safety conducted jointly by LSE and the tyre manufacturer Goodyear.

Through a combination of focus groups and in-depth interviews with European drivers, the researchers identified the following seven personalities which frequently manifest themselves:

• The Teacher: needs to make sure other drivers know what they have done wrong and expects recognition of his/her efforts to teach others.

• The Know-it-all: thinks he/she is surrounded by incompetent fools and contents themselves with shouting condescendingly at other drivers while being protected in their own car.

• The Competitor: needs to get ahead of all other drivers and is annoyed when someone gets in the way of that. He/she might accelerate when someone tries to overtake them or close a gap to prevent anyone from getting in front of them.

• The Punisher: wants to punish other drivers for any perceived misbehavior. Might end up getting out of his/her car or approaching other drivers directly.

• The Philosopher: accepts misbehavior easily and tries to rationally explain it. Manages to control his/her feelings in the car.

• The Avoider: treats misbehaving other drivers impersonally, dismisses them as a hazard.

• The Escapee: listens to music or talks on the phone to insulate him/herself. Escapees distract themselves with selected social relationships so that they do not have to relate to any of the other drivers on the road. It’s also a strategy for not getting frustrated in the first place.


Let’s just assume, for a minute, that this research by psychologies from LSE is credible, has been peer-reviewed etc etc etc. Then let’s consider whether it is likely that different types of cars are more likely to appeal to, or be attainable by, different types of personality. My hypothesis is that they do and are. I don’t have any scientific evidence of it yet. If that is the case, then it seems at least highly plausible that different cars are more likely to be driven aggressively, on average. Any meaningful thoughts, apart from calling me a bell end, a moron, an inferiority complex sufferer or similar?

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longblackcoat said:

I read it. In particular, I read this:

"Fairly typical (although obviously an extreme example) of the kind of behaviour drivers of cars like this often seem to think is ok. Tailgating their way around the country with their little fairy lights twinkling away assuming for some reason that everyone is meant to get out of their way, the roads belong to them, and rules, laws and general manners aren't important, so long as they can arrive as soon as physically possible. Utter brainless, selfish, arrogant tools the lot of them."

I then made the point that I'm a driver of such a car. I don't drive like this because I'm not a d1ckhead. The OP's assuming that the driver drove like this because he's an arrogant arse, and that this is linked to the type of car; I fundamentally disagree.

If the OP saw me driving my Panda he'd think nothing of it, but I think it likely he'd see in my German (OMG!) 4x4 (even more OMG!) and would assume that I'm an arrogant tosser.

No, only if you were driving like an arse, which I postulate certain personality types (not necessarily you) may be more likely to do if they are driving a type of car commonly considered to be a status symbol.

That's not that same as me assuming, at first sight, that you'll be driving like an arse. My opinion of your driving would depend on how you drive. I think it's called causality.

Edited by nffcforever on Friday 27th May 09:30