Insurance & total loss question?

[angrymoby]

Just after a bit info/opinion with regard to 'total loss' & Insurance companies

The long short story...

Involved in an accident a couple of months ago, 100% other parties fault.

Other parties Insurance company contact me directly (Tesco's) apologise & offer to handle everything- I agree (oh hindsight )

My car's damage is bonnet/bumper/front wing (still perfectly driveable- just looks a mess) ...it's an old SAAB so appreciate it'll probably be a total loss.

I get a quote (£900 labour & materials but not parts)

Other parties Insurance send out engineer to assess.

Other parties Insurance Cat C it.

Offer won't be enough to get a replacement 'like for like' vehicle (i've provided Ebay links to like for like & prices which they refuse to accept)...i want a like for like so i can transfer roof rack & tow bar which i use a lot, otherwise ill be out of pocket.

They offer a cash alternative, so i can keep the car ...Offer just about covers labour & materials, but not parts- again, ill be out of pocket even if i source/ supply S/H parts.

I ask for X amount as fair settlement (£1700)

Anyone been through similar & got any advice? ...seems to me to be massively unfair that i will be out of pocket for being involved in an accident that was in no way shape or form my fault (in fact, the other parties driving was one of the most idiotic pieces of driving i've seen on the road ...'attemting' an unsafe u-turn on a dual carriage way)

Current state of affairs- i've told Tesco's i'm handing the whole mess over to my insurer Monday morning & they can deal with any subsequent interim legal fees/charges/hire car fees.

Slight fly in the ointment is i've changed Insurers in the meantime (although previous Insurer was informed, so shouldn't be too much of a problem- although i doubt they'll try too hard)

Any info/advice/opinion much appreciated

& mods, please feel free to move in i've posted in the wrong area

Ta

[angrymoby]

Cool & cheers for the info guys

Ill contact Tesco's one final time, outlining the following...

After talking to my Insurer & taking legal advice I would like...

THEM/Tesco's to supply a 'like for like' vehicle including engineers report/inspection (so i know it's as much as possible kosha) ...i've dug out the original receipt & specification (it has pretty much every available option ticked!- which ill fwd) so they can do the leg work (i'm pretty sure they wont/ wont want to) They can sort transporting it too

I've also looked on Autotrader (their suggestion) for suitables (& they're actually higher in price than Ebay- doh!) which ill fwd

OR they send a cheque for the original body shop quote, plus parts (suitable S/H ones- sourced by the body shop) plus hire car costs for how long it goes in for (approx 1 week)

Failure to do so in the next 5 days & ill proceed sorting things myself (by doing one of the above- whichever is the most suitable/convenient to me)

& ill be contacting the other party directly, mentioning how unsatisfactory their Insurer has been & that i have no option but to start court proceedings against them, to recover my losses

& then prepare to go through the small claims court (which i'd hope i'd be ok with- as i've recently pretty much sorted my own divorce )

[angrymoby]

ZOLLAR said:

One of two things will happen.

1) The insurer will not be bothered with the hassle and increase their settlement (No chance will they source you a second hand Saab)

2)They will have all their evidence in order and meet you in court which could cost you more in the long term.

Do remember you won't have been the first person to have tried this with an insurance company (who all have departments full of legally trained staff)

I'm not saying it won't work but bear in mind a few posts from strangers on the internet won't mean squat in court, it's 50/50

Yeah ...i'm not holding out much hope tbh- it's more of an olive branch, so i can present to the court that i've tried to be more than reasonable.

I have spoken to a legal- who basically confirmed what peeps have said above & that the best form of recourse is making a small claim directly, collate as much info as possible- keep all receipts & in their opinion it's pretty much a done deal. i.e i shouldn't be at a loss at all

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

Ain't going to happen.

They're going to write it off and pay you out the value of it. All that you're arguing about is the value of your car immediately before it was bent. You want it fixing? Buy it back and fix it.

I'm nothing to do with them ...they're not my insurer

& i can't fix it (even with S/H parts) for the amount they're offering (see above)

I'm surprised Insurers get away with this sort of stuff tbh ...fair enough haggle with your own customers/client, but when your client causes an accident, the other party (me) shouldn't suffer any loss at all. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to either:

a. completely cover the loss (i.e write a cheque for a replacement)
b. supply an acceptable replacement
c. pay for a suitable repair

& as above, shouldn't be upto MY insurer to try & wash their hands of it either ...if i was still insured by them, they'd be getting as much grief to sort properly (i.e no loss to me)

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

No, the one and only thing they have to do is d. Pay you the value of the vehicle immediately before it got bent.

Actually they don't ...as i'm not claiming against the Insurer, well that's what the legal bod said. So we shall see (& for the £100 initial punt at the small claims court there isn't really much to lose)

Ill you keep you all updated

[angrymoby]

Update:

Before i had to chance to reply, they emailed me as to why the valuation is so low

A. They've got the spec wrong (they're quoting a petrol, manual Linear sport)- i don't know how they've managed that, as i've done the same on the Glass' guide & got it right
B. They list it's above average miles, they think average for a 12 year old car is 93K? ...i always thought it was 12K p.a??
C. They've got it listed with a CAT C marker on it for a claim in 2014 ...it was involved in an 'incident' in 2014 (i told my previous insurer & supplied pics) but i never claimed, as a quick look on Ebay for parts (Bonnet- luckily one the same colour & headlamp) meant i could replace more cheaply than my excess.

No idea how they managed to TL it if i didn't claim, let alone CAT C it without an engineer looking at it- & that raises some serious questions about how they're dealing with cars that are a certain value/age.

Glass' guide price (correct spec & mileage) is coming up as £1300 private £1800 dealer ...a quick look on Autotrader (there aren't that many around- 8 in total!) list £1500 private £2000 dealer

I'm starting to really dislike insurance company's as i'm now chasing 2 of them

Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 27th September 09:35

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

This is the really relevant one.

Yep ...& trying to ascertain as to when & why it was applied, i was always under the impression it's when a claim is settled or ownership is handed over

so, contacting my old insurer & asking why they've CAT C'd it when no claim was actually made & if it's an error- can it be removed

contacting the 3rd parties Insurance company & asking for a valuation with the correct details & mileage

& asking for another valuation with the CAT C removed, so i can claim that back from my old insurer (if the CAT C status can't be removed)

But it also means that my car will now definitely be a CAT C if i then settle (again de-valueing it further)

Absolute ball ache

Edited by angrymoby on Tuesday 27th September 10:00

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

Well, you know that. It was applied when you were talking to your then-insurer about claiming in 2014. The question is whether that was an error or not.

Still, at least you now know that your current insurer are handling your claim properly. I take it you've apologised to them for the unwarranted abuse you've been slinging around?

My insurer?

If you can't be bothered to read properly ...don't bother posting.

[angrymoby]

pork911 said:

OP in negotiating a fair valuation you will of course have told them right from the start about the ealier damage and repair and factored that into your own comparison of other similar cars and what their owners starting prices are?

Yes & i told them i had kerb'd my alloys once & had them refurb'd ...& dent master had removed some stone chips once

[angrymoby]

ZOLLAR said:

Ok a few points.

An insurer can place a CAT based on vehicle images without even seeing the car in person, happens hundreds of times a day, perfectly standard.
Even if you don't claim an Insurer can place a category on a damaged total loss vehicle.

Glasses defines the average mileage so your insurance company is basing "above average" on that, there's a tick box on the glasses portal to choose average mileage.

Also the glasses guide you're using isn't as good as the insurance one, this is from Glasses website

"My Insurer Has Given Me Different Values To Your Valuation

The values we make available on Glass.co.uk are for private individuals to understand how much they might expect to pay for a particular vehicle if they were purchasing it at a Dealership, or how much they might expect to get in part exchange for that vehicle. The values are adjusted for Age, Mileage, Options, and Condition; however, they are also adjusted to take account of a Trade In scenario, so factoring in some of the typical Dealer allowances in a Retail situation. Therefore, our Glass.co.uk valuations are not suitable for comparative purposes versus Insurance Valuations.

Please remember that a Glass’s Valuation is a guide only.Valuations obtained from Glass.co.uk are for use in buying and selling situations and are not INSURANCE settlement values, CASH values, or REPLACEMENT prices and should not be presented as such. This is clearly stated in various prominent places on the website. If you have an issue with the settlement figure provided by your insurer, unfortunately Glass’s cannot provide you with advice regarding this. Your insurer will have a sophisticated and well-documented process for handling these issues (usually found on their website), and that process is your recourse if you wish to take the matter further."

http://www.glass.co.uk/faq/#VALUATIONS

Please note the bits in Bold.

Ta.

Jesus, that's pretty bad re: TL & an eye opener ...for future reference i know ill certainly be wary of telling an Insurer of any accident incurred damage (well, on old crappy cars)

What guide DO insurance companies use ZOLLAR? or the best that Joe public has access to?

[angrymoby]

TooMany2cvs said:

Yep, your insurer. The one who you accused of trying to stiff you - when the reality is that your PREVIOUS insurer flagged the car as a write-off, and your current insurer have offered you the right value for a car that was previously written off.

Average mileages and fine spec detail are more-or-less irrelevant in comparison.

back of the class for you