How to deal with 17 year old driving dangerously?
Discussion
Our 17 year old passed his driving test a couple of weeks ago and last night, my wife suggested we should have a look through the recordings on the dashcam in his car. What we saw was pretty bad. In the last couple of hours of driving, he has been driving at over 50 mph in 30 mph zones, including our own village, over 40 mph in town at every opportunity, over 85 mph in 60 mph zones where it isn't appropriate to drive at that speed, ditto for driving at over 75 mph in narrow country lanes where doing 60 mph is dangerous, 75 mph in 50 mph limit accident black spot with several recent deaths, over 30 mph inside school grounds where the limit is supposed to be 5 mph due to children as young as 4 running around (that includes speeding up from standing still inside the school grounds), going over many speed bumps at 30 mph rattling the car like it's not going to last much, going round bends way, way too fast, narrowly avoiding two accidents due to the other drivers having to swerve, nearly going off the road on a number of occasions (due to going took fast for the road particularly in bends), and several more things. It's the kind of driving that makes my blood boil and he is not only doing dangerous things, his control of the car is pretty terrible. If this driving had been witnessed by the police, he would've lost his licence, even if he hadn't only just passed his test.
As you can imagine, the car keys have been confiscated, at least until he completes Pass Plus, but is there anything else we can do? I not only fear for his life but the danger he's presenting to others, especially children. Can we send him on a speed awareness course voluntarily? Any other ideas?
As you can imagine, the car keys have been confiscated, at least until he completes Pass Plus, but is there anything else we can do? I not only fear for his life but the danger he's presenting to others, especially children. Can we send him on a speed awareness course voluntarily? Any other ideas?
Thank you very very much everyone for the responses, it all helps. I'll try to answer as many questions as I can.
Yes, we've paid for the car, insurance, everything. He has supposedly paid for the lessons, but only with money he "borrowed" from us. Not that he's likely to pay any of it back. It's a 2011 Peugeot 107 with the 1.0L engine so not exactly a track machine. The dashcam's been there all the time while he's been learning to drive and it's not hidden in any way, shape or form, so yes, it wasn't as if he didn't know it was there and he was still driving round like a prick. And yes, he has had many hours of instruction from me since a very young age on our own field as well a lot of time invested on the roads both when he was driving, and when I was driving explaining about observation, positioning, appropriate speed for coditions, different cars' capabilities etc. It's not as if we just threw the money at it and let him loose. Unfortunately, even back when I used to teach him (and his younger brother) in our field he was very overconfident. Having watched that footage, I am not going to pay a penny to fix anything that goes wrong on the car, though I suspect he'll get it out of his mother. There were a lot of clips in the protected folder where the DrivePro 220 records when the G-sensors activate the emergency recording mode, including the 85 in the 60 zone where he obviously had very poor car control despite dry conditions and broad daylight, and swerved so wildly that it activated the G-sensors which were in the LOW sensitivity setting.
Unfortunately, he can't take the bus or any other public transport - we live very rurally and we have 1 bus a week from the village. That's right, one bus a week. It gets to Northampton in 45 minutes or so, then you have to take it back to the village 2 hours after getting there otherwise next bus is a week after that. Cycling isn't that easy either, it's all rather dangerous, twisty, country lanes around here. We had looked into black box insurance but most of the companies seemed to have rather poor reviews and weren't particularly cheap either. But it's very tempting to cancel the current insurance and get one of those. If he screws it up, bad luck. I'm not stumping up several thousand pounds for his insurance if he has issues as a result of his driving. We said we'd pay for it as long as he drove sensibly and didn't have a major incident but that won't be the case if the insurance is cancelled as a result of him driving like a cock.
It actually wasn't my idea either to install the cam or watch the footage, it was my wife's, and thank god for that. When we called him down for a talk after watching, I actually stayed quiet and let my wife, by far the calmer one of us, do the talking; at least until he started denying driving dangerously, then making bulls
t excuses about why he was speeding, talking back rather tttishly, accused us of invading his privacy and started demading that he be allowed to watch the footage from our cars. At that point, I did pretty much read the riot act, albeit calmer than I expected I would be, and tried to explain to him that him that had he been observed by a police officer, he would've lost his licence, we then tried explaining about the dangers he has been posing to others, particularly children, both at the school and in the built up areas. Unfortunately, he didn't seem too care, he said it was him risking going to prison and it was for him to decide on that risk, completely ignoring the impact of actually killing anyone, let alone a child, on anyone else.
It ended up with him indignant that we had been "spying on him" rather than accepting that he had done anything wrong. FFS, the dashcam's been there for the last 9 months and he knew precisely why it was there! We have even reviewed his incidents while he was learning to drive! All this is also after he swung into our own courtyard so fast the other day that if his 5 year old sister had been anywhere near, he wouldn't have seen her and she would've had no chance. He had a good talking to at the time but it obviously had no effect.
He isn't going to turn up on a 250 because he would have to work and earn some money before he could do that and he's way too lazy. I have an 1100 in the garage but he's not getting anywhere near that. Besides, even though I had told him I would teach him how to ride when he was old enough, he had a go a friend's house without telling us and ended with a broken collar bone while messing in their field. The pain has taught him better than anything else.
I had thought about taking him to a track a long time ago but my wife didn't think he was sensible enough; she felt that he would then think he was god's gift to driving and drive like he was on a track all the time rather than use the track to satisfy his youthful desire for speed. I have taken him to gokart tracks many, many times over the years; he obviously hasn't learnt that speed is for the track only. Unfortunately I think my wife is right and any advanced driving skills training will only give him a false sense of security right now.
His complete lack of care for the car doesn't surprise me either; his general attitude to life seems to be that he is entitled to everything that he wants. He never treats any of his, or anyone else's for that matter, possessions with any kind of due regard, and is a selfish ste to boot. He knows everything better than everyone else, never makes any mistakes and nothing is ever his fault.
I feel very frustrated but I'm really struggling with what to do right now. I grew up with an absolute of a stepfather so I don't have any decent role models or any positive experiences I can draw on, I'm only trying to avoid the st that I had to go through. That goes for both driving and general bringing up. I wanted to ask some opinions as I didn't want to be overreacting since there's some risk of that and it would only make things worse.
I feel that I'm between a rock and a hard place all the time as it is and this has just made me very angry. I have always had a soft spot for kids and have always been very protective of any child. I have put several kids of all ages back together after being the victim of driving like this but also had them die in my hands. I honestly don't know what I would do if he were to kill or maim a child, my own or otherwise. I have told him that if he does kill or injure someone's child, I will personally hand him over not only to the police, but to the parents of the child too.
It is tempting to think that I could send the footage to the bill but I don't think they'd be interested. The current plan is that the car stays put till he does Pass Plus. No driving on his own till then which gives us about 2 months, but he will be allowed to drive if one of us is in the car. Not if the younger ones are in the car as well though, I can't take that risk. We will then see how it goes, get a larger capacity sd card and review the footage regularly. I won't embarrass him by putting the footage on youtube for all to see, but might have a few minutes with his driving instructor.
Reg Local, I've had a look at your website and it's quite interesting. I have sent you an email through your website.
ClaphamGT3, I'd love to sit him down with Charles and Eleanor. I think the only people who might have any impact on his attitude are people like them who have suffered.
I have seen and read 10PS's story before, I think there's a better version somewhere else than those linked which have been snipped a bit. I might make ours read it before he does something similar.
Yes, we've paid for the car, insurance, everything. He has supposedly paid for the lessons, but only with money he "borrowed" from us. Not that he's likely to pay any of it back. It's a 2011 Peugeot 107 with the 1.0L engine so not exactly a track machine. The dashcam's been there all the time while he's been learning to drive and it's not hidden in any way, shape or form, so yes, it wasn't as if he didn't know it was there and he was still driving round like a prick. And yes, he has had many hours of instruction from me since a very young age on our own field as well a lot of time invested on the roads both when he was driving, and when I was driving explaining about observation, positioning, appropriate speed for coditions, different cars' capabilities etc. It's not as if we just threw the money at it and let him loose. Unfortunately, even back when I used to teach him (and his younger brother) in our field he was very overconfident. Having watched that footage, I am not going to pay a penny to fix anything that goes wrong on the car, though I suspect he'll get it out of his mother. There were a lot of clips in the protected folder where the DrivePro 220 records when the G-sensors activate the emergency recording mode, including the 85 in the 60 zone where he obviously had very poor car control despite dry conditions and broad daylight, and swerved so wildly that it activated the G-sensors which were in the LOW sensitivity setting.
Unfortunately, he can't take the bus or any other public transport - we live very rurally and we have 1 bus a week from the village. That's right, one bus a week. It gets to Northampton in 45 minutes or so, then you have to take it back to the village 2 hours after getting there otherwise next bus is a week after that. Cycling isn't that easy either, it's all rather dangerous, twisty, country lanes around here. We had looked into black box insurance but most of the companies seemed to have rather poor reviews and weren't particularly cheap either. But it's very tempting to cancel the current insurance and get one of those. If he screws it up, bad luck. I'm not stumping up several thousand pounds for his insurance if he has issues as a result of his driving. We said we'd pay for it as long as he drove sensibly and didn't have a major incident but that won't be the case if the insurance is cancelled as a result of him driving like a cock.
It actually wasn't my idea either to install the cam or watch the footage, it was my wife's, and thank god for that. When we called him down for a talk after watching, I actually stayed quiet and let my wife, by far the calmer one of us, do the talking; at least until he started denying driving dangerously, then making bulls
t excuses about why he was speeding, talking back rather tttishly, accused us of invading his privacy and started demading that he be allowed to watch the footage from our cars. At that point, I did pretty much read the riot act, albeit calmer than I expected I would be, and tried to explain to him that him that had he been observed by a police officer, he would've lost his licence, we then tried explaining about the dangers he has been posing to others, particularly children, both at the school and in the built up areas. Unfortunately, he didn't seem too care, he said it was him risking going to prison and it was for him to decide on that risk, completely ignoring the impact of actually killing anyone, let alone a child, on anyone else.It ended up with him indignant that we had been "spying on him" rather than accepting that he had done anything wrong. FFS, the dashcam's been there for the last 9 months and he knew precisely why it was there! We have even reviewed his incidents while he was learning to drive! All this is also after he swung into our own courtyard so fast the other day that if his 5 year old sister had been anywhere near, he wouldn't have seen her and she would've had no chance. He had a good talking to at the time but it obviously had no effect.
He isn't going to turn up on a 250 because he would have to work and earn some money before he could do that and he's way too lazy. I have an 1100 in the garage but he's not getting anywhere near that. Besides, even though I had told him I would teach him how to ride when he was old enough, he had a go a friend's house without telling us and ended with a broken collar bone while messing in their field. The pain has taught him better than anything else.
I had thought about taking him to a track a long time ago but my wife didn't think he was sensible enough; she felt that he would then think he was god's gift to driving and drive like he was on a track all the time rather than use the track to satisfy his youthful desire for speed. I have taken him to gokart tracks many, many times over the years; he obviously hasn't learnt that speed is for the track only. Unfortunately I think my wife is right and any advanced driving skills training will only give him a false sense of security right now.
His complete lack of care for the car doesn't surprise me either; his general attitude to life seems to be that he is entitled to everything that he wants. He never treats any of his, or anyone else's for that matter, possessions with any kind of due regard, and is a selfish s
te to boot. He knows everything better than everyone else, never makes any mistakes and nothing is ever his fault. I feel very frustrated but I'm really struggling with what to do right now. I grew up with an absolute
of a stepfather so I don't have any decent role models or any positive experiences I can draw on, I'm only trying to avoid the st that I had to go through. That goes for both driving and general bringing up. I wanted to ask some opinions as I didn't want to be overreacting since there's some risk of that and it would only make things worse. I feel that I'm between a rock and a hard place all the time as it is and this has just made me very angry. I have always had a soft spot for kids and have always been very protective of any child. I have put several kids of all ages back together after being the victim of driving like this but also had them die in my hands. I honestly don't know what I would do if he were to kill or maim a child, my own or otherwise. I have told him that if he does kill or injure someone's child, I will personally hand him over not only to the police, but to the parents of the child too.
It is tempting to think that I could send the footage to the bill but I don't think they'd be interested. The current plan is that the car stays put till he does Pass Plus. No driving on his own till then which gives us about 2 months, but he will be allowed to drive if one of us is in the car. Not if the younger ones are in the car as well though, I can't take that risk. We will then see how it goes, get a larger capacity sd card and review the footage regularly. I won't embarrass him by putting the footage on youtube for all to see, but might have a few minutes with his driving instructor.
Reg Local, I've had a look at your website and it's quite interesting. I have sent you an email through your website.
ClaphamGT3, I'd love to sit him down with Charles and Eleanor. I think the only people who might have any impact on his attitude are people like them who have suffered.
I have seen and read 10PS's story before, I think there's a better version somewhere else than those linked which have been snipped a bit. I might make ours read it before he does something similar.
I think this is a better thread detailing 10PS's story. I probably should make the 17yo read it.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=442...
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=442...
Thank you very much indeed again everyone. All advice is gladly received. As I'm sure you can all understand in my previous posts, the worst aspect is the driving in the school and the built up areas with the consequent danger to small children and others.
He is a bit of a wayward 17 year old (almost 18 now...) regarding his attitude to several things unfortunately, but I do hope we can straighten him out. He's currently doing his A-Levels and hoping to study PPE at university, likely to convert to law afterwards, so he does have a target; he's just a bit lazy about actually getting there.
The plan so far is:
1) Keys are back with us, he drives only with us in the car for now. That's at least until he completes Pass Plus but subject to review. In the meantime, he goes back to school drop offs and pick ups with the younger ones; luckily they're all at the same school. He has to go back to lifts from us for everything else but only when convenient for us. If he misses out on meeting up with friends, bad luck.
2) Pass Plus is booked.
3) He will be doing some online safe driving modules which I can access for free for family via work.
4) He will spend time with Reg Local from PH (see above, ex-traffic officer, knows how to handle similar kids!). Hopefully spending time with an indepedent person, and an ex-traffic officer who knows about these things at that, will help with his attitude.
5) Regular scheduled reviews of the footage from his car once he's allowed to drive on his own again.
6) Going over to black box insurance from January onwards and if he loses his insurance as a result of his driving, he's on his own. He will not be bailed out anymore, this is his last chance.
7) He'll be asked to read as many of 10PS's posts as I can find.
Does that sound reasonable in trying to balance punishment/education/stop him killing himself or others?
He is a bit of a wayward 17 year old (almost 18 now...) regarding his attitude to several things unfortunately, but I do hope we can straighten him out. He's currently doing his A-Levels and hoping to study PPE at university, likely to convert to law afterwards, so he does have a target; he's just a bit lazy about actually getting there.
The plan so far is:
1) Keys are back with us, he drives only with us in the car for now. That's at least until he completes Pass Plus but subject to review. In the meantime, he goes back to school drop offs and pick ups with the younger ones; luckily they're all at the same school. He has to go back to lifts from us for everything else but only when convenient for us. If he misses out on meeting up with friends, bad luck.
2) Pass Plus is booked.
3) He will be doing some online safe driving modules which I can access for free for family via work.
4) He will spend time with Reg Local from PH (see above, ex-traffic officer, knows how to handle similar kids!). Hopefully spending time with an indepedent person, and an ex-traffic officer who knows about these things at that, will help with his attitude.
5) Regular scheduled reviews of the footage from his car once he's allowed to drive on his own again.
6) Going over to black box insurance from January onwards and if he loses his insurance as a result of his driving, he's on his own. He will not be bailed out anymore, this is his last chance.
7) He'll be asked to read as many of 10PS's posts as I can find.
Does that sound reasonable in trying to balance punishment/education/stop him killing himself or others?
Monkeylegend said:
ModernAndy said:
On a serious note, I would really look into having somebody from the emergency services talk to him if at all possible.
Coming to an accident involving him someday soon.The emergency services is precisely where Reg Local will be coming in. As his parents, our experiences obviously count for nothing but hopefully RL's will.
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