New 5-series

[Ares]

Sent release photos & video by BMW yesterday. Not sure if it's been posted here already, can't see it : https://youtu.be/XGGTIJJLC5U

[Ares]

iSore said:

It's a pretty car, but will it not look a bit 2009 by 2020?

It's a lazy job for sure and it will blend in with other 8 billion 520d F10's - maybe not a bad thing?

And yet when they did something different (see Bangle) they got slagged off for it....

When you have a winning formula, why fk it up?

[Ares]

iSore said:

Ares said:

And yet when they did something different (see Bangle) they got slagged off for it....

When you have a winning formula, why fk it up?

Wow, Mr Defensive! :-)

Did the E60 not outsell the E39 in the end?

Far from. Just highlighting that when a manufacturer does ditch boring/corporate identity, they get slammed for it.

[Ares]

C7 JFW said:

Wait a minute.

///M550 xDrive that looks very close to a standard diesel? Hello.

Re-paint the calipers black or graphite, swap the wheels for similar width, less jazzy ones and de-badge. Perfect.

It is with the current model.....just not in RHD (AWD compliance with RHD).

Hopefully the new one has been engineered to allow AWD so we'll get the M550d

[Ares]

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

[Ares]

RobM77 said:

They've got rid of the iDrive screen moulded into the dash! This new car has what looks like an afterthought from Halfords screwed onto the dash instead. Why do manufacturers do this? I can understand it in a low budget car like a Fiesta or Corsa, but a 5 series?! Even the new DB11's got it. I can understand saving money on a car's build and subsequent maintenance where the customer doesn't notice or it doesn't really matter, but surely this is just shouting 'cheap and nasty' at the owner every time he gets in the car, which is a bit much on what will often be a £40k or even £50k+ car?

Other than that, yes, I like the understated look With the XF and Merc competition (and to a lesser extent the Audi A6) looking so flashy it's nice to have a car in this sector that blends in a bit more.

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

[Ares]

RobM77 said:

Ares said:

RobM77 said:

They've got rid of the iDrive screen moulded into the dash! This new car has what looks like an afterthought from Halfords screwed onto the dash instead. Why do manufacturers do this? I can understand it in a low budget car like a Fiesta or Corsa, but a 5 series?! Even the new DB11's got it. I can understand saving money on a car's build and subsequent maintenance where the customer doesn't notice or it doesn't really matter, but surely this is just shouting 'cheap and nasty' at the owner every time he gets in the car, which is a bit much on what will often be a £40k or even £50k+ car?

Other than that, yes, I like the understated look With the XF and Merc competition (and to a lesser extent the Audi A6) looking so flashy it's nice to have a car in this sector that blends in a bit more.

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

That's fascinating, thanks. I first saw screens like this on hire Corsas and cars like that. I thought it was a great way to get the functionality into a cheaper (<£15k) car in a modular way as an optional extra. Seeing such a screen in a BMW 5 series, Jag or an Aston though is to me like seeing a Savile Row suit worn with Clarks shoes, it just looks so, so wrong.

Do you know any more info? Surely a screen sticking out of the dash is worse for occupant safety in an accident. What exactly is it about these stick on screens that regulations favour?

Safety. I.E driver being less distracted, having the screen almost in eyesight of the driver, not hidden in a dashboard.

[Ares]

kambites said:

Ares said:

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Which regulation specifically? I can see the practical advantage, but I can't imagine how it could really be legislated given that cars don't have to have such screens at all.

I don't know. I got told first my Audi, then Mercedes. It surrounds visibility and Driver's Line of Sight. It doesn't have to be totally stuck on, but to have it that high up, and integral, makes for a big-ass dash. Fine in an S-Class, less so in a smaller car.

If a car doesn't have a screen, theres nothing to be legislated!

[Ares]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

[Ares]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

No response to fact, so just ignore it and complain about a vulgarity

I gave you a sensible answer, I just said you were talking st. What is a winning formula if not making the perennial best seller? Nothing to do with magazines.

You think the E-Class does the job better, more people disagree, hence why it doesn't sell as well. I personally find both the E-Class and Volvo dull. Poor handling, minimal feel and just posh sofas on wheels designed to cosset you away from what is going on on the road. Old and soft people rate comfort and minimal feel. The rest of us actually WANT to feel what is going on through the wheels and WANT sporty suspension.

As for quiet...?? Have you heard a modern Merc or Volvo diesel?

[Ares]

berlintaxi said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

Congratulations, you have just confirmed Ares opinion was correct.

<snigger>

[Ares]

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . . which as you'll know doesn't necessarily compute, at least not on the public road with pot holes, poor quality repairs etc. Run flat tyres also don't help ride quality. Almost every review of the current 5 series said don't have the M-Sport suspension or large wheels because it ruins the ride quality, unless you add adaptive suspension. I found the stock SE ride to still be too harsh on 18" wheels.

The new 5 series has the option of active anti-roll bars which is probably in response to the fact customers want zero roll but don't want to tolerate the harsh ride that usually comes with that. Volvo and Mercedes offer air suspension which gives a smoother ride and less roll so the main manufacturers are addressing the issue of ride comfort as well as providing "sporty" roll-less handling.

Maybe the latest 5, apart from the etch-a-sketch screen, might be the first one to handle well and be genuinely comfortable with active dampers and roll bars ? It's the way forward !

Hang on....you slagged the press off because they were wrong for supporting the BMW 5 mins, but they are right when they criticise them (which 'almost every review does, apparently?)

Face it, you just don't like BMWs and will use any argument to try and rationales an irrational opinion.