Another "WTF?" - electronic dipstick

[havoc]

Boss has a current-generation Range Rover Sport (L494).

Lovely car - both to look at, to sit in and apparently to drive. (Not my thing, but can appreciate them)


Anyway, it's nearly 3y.o. and it threw a warning error - oil-level sender malfunction. Quick IT fix (turn it off and on again) and it disappeared, only to reappear the next day.

So he took it into the dealership...who, to fix said sender failure (so a £2 part, probably), have to take the engine apart. Genuinely, literally take it out and take bits off it to access the sender. They've had it for a week already, so it clearly isn't a nice, simple 5 minute job...

Both of us have made the comment "what's wrong with the old fashioned stick - they don't break", but apparently "not enough customers were using them"! WTF #2 - surely if someone doesn't use the dipstick then it's their own silly fault if the engine runs low on oil?!?

Either way, this has got to be yet another example of tech-for-tech's-sake, rather than anything useful/necessary...



I've asked him to enquire as to what the bill would have been if it had been out of warranty...want to know what this technological advance is likely to cost 2nd-hand / 3rd-hand owners if it fails...

[havoc]

Blaster72 said:

If it's taking them more than a week to change a sensor I'd suggest they're incompetent. The sensor is around £40 and is located in the sump.

As for dipsticks, outside of us lot on here how many people even bother checking their oil regularly on modern cars?

First point - ahh, methinks some flannel from the service guys then to make it seem like they're doing a big job or some other random BS.

Still pretty crap though - drain oil / sump off / clean up / remove/replace sender, test function, replace sump, refill with oil. At a main dealer on a big Rangie that'll be £400+ I suspect if charged to a customer.



Second - many older drivers, in my experience (older blokes, anyway) - those that grew up knowing their car NEEDED maintenance. Gen-Y / Millennials - not so much...

[havoc]

liner33 said:

Dipsticks do break, often, ever since manufacturers got the great idea to make them out of plastic

JD said:

Surely if you are going to have the sender anyway, the dipstick then becomes unnecessary?

As an owner of car that have suffered snapped dipsticks, I'm glad to see the back of them!

I think your logic is flawed JD. Manufacturers choose to make a part that SHOULD be metal out of plastic, then it fails, then you use that as an argument for going to a more expensive, more complicated solution that's JUST as likely to fail, rather than going back to the old metal part?!?

Seriously chap, do yourself a favour and think before typing...

(As regards "having a sender anyway" - the old-style "warning light" sender was a very simple affair vs the current 'take the oil level' sensors/senders. Simpler, cheaper, less likely to fail...and even if it did the owner had a manual backup solution...)



Oh, and I've not HEARD of a dipstick breaking amongst any of my family and friends.

[havoc]

xjay1337 said:

But I guess the market dictates now that most people don't like getting their fingers "dirty".

Probably very true, and i suspect most new buyers won't be worried about part-failure as it'll be warrantied, whilst the manufacturers don't really* care about 2nd-hand buyers as any failures mean more money for their parts departments.

66mpg said:

Somebody decided the sensor would last the life of the engine and never need to be changed.

True, but (having worked in automotive and seen the competence/otherwise of some of the electronics teams, and the short-cuts they end up taking not to delay a project because they've been asked to squeeze a quart into a pint-pot...)



* Only insofar as a major repeat problem can affect residuals (996/IMF) ...but minor/occasional problems don't seem to register in the 2nd hand market, nor do some more widespread ones (plastic turbo impellers in 2.0d engines, for example...)

[havoc]

Nanook said:

ABS can work better than braking systems without ABS.

But sometimes it breaks.

Synchromesh gearboxes are nicer to use than old crash boxes, but they cost more to make.

Side airbags can help save more lives than just a single one on the steering wheel, but at greater cost, weight, complexity.

Windy windows worked just fine until electric ones were created.

So where do we draw the line on 'technology for technologies sake'?

I know people that have no idea what a dipstick is, never mind knowing they should check it weekly. If this system stops someone borking an engine by telling them to get it checked out, that's a good thing.

In this case, it's broken. It happens. To everything, at some point or another.

All of those examples have a clear benefit to the driver*. An electronic dipstick doesn't, really, except as a cure for laziness. Doubling-up is, I agree, the best solution...but if you ask me to choose between the two, choose the simple solution not the expensive one.

(shouldn't that be THE engineering mantra? KISS)



* 'leccy windows being the closest to the "cure for laziness" answer, to be fair, but even there you have a switch to prevent your offspring from winding their own windows down and throwing their shoes out of the window on a M'way, as happened to a good friend's sister a few years ago...

[havoc]

civicduty said:

Peugeot 206 three times in twelve years.

I think there's your error.

[havoc]

dme123 said:

Crap early electronic efforts like the VW Passat used have given the technology a bad name, and people forget how often you'd have to piss about adjusting manual handbrakes as cars got older. I was forever having to arse about with the handbrake on my P2 Volvo V70 and a lot of the older sheds I ran when I was younger.

My experience differs to yours:-

I've run older cars for the last 10 years, effectively (A 1999 car from 2007-2013, a 1996 car from 2009 to now, and a 2008 car from 2013 to now - none of them low-mileage, BTW...), and the handbrakes have NEVER caused a problem.

Conversely, the elec handbrake in the wife's Mk7 Golf is a PITA - the auto-hold on occasion switches itself off and you can't release the handbrake without your foot on the brake. Combine those two and moving away on a slope becomes a gamble...


With elec handbrakes you're asking the driver to trust electronic technology rather than mechanical technology - and ANY mechanic (and any warranty company!) will tell you that with modern cars the biggest issue is the electronics.