'Organised' cycle racing on the roads ...

[Diderot]

Ingredients for this recipe:

Take one Mothering Sunday; one day of great weather; legions of motorcyle stuntmen on their way to Box Hill and/or Whiteways; armies of sunday 45mph-everywhere-Rover-driving-coffin-dodgers; and throw in a full complement of classic/sports cars on a hoon for good measure. And then, for added piquancy, add in 2 separate full-on cycle road races on major A roads (A27 dual carriageway section; A29/A24 single carriageway sections) with Tour-de-France style lycra clad madmen oblivious to the rules of the road.

Mix in well, allow to marinate and simmer for a few hours. The result is an unsavoury mélange of unnecessary tailbacks and long delays, masses of precarious overtakes from frustrated bikers and drivers, a few (very) near cycle/biker/car interfaces, several near head-on collisions and one must assume two very successful cycle races.

So, why exactly is this allowed? And who gives these feckers permission to race like nutters on major public roads? How is this deemed safe?

Edited by Diderot on Sunday 22 March 18:51

[Diderot]

DocSteve said:

Diderot said:

Ingredients for this recipe:

Take one Mothering Sunday; one day of great weather; legions of motorcyle stuntmen on their way to Box Hill and/or Whiteways; armies of sunday 45mph-everywhere-Rover-driving-coffin-dodgers; and throw in a full complement of classic/sports cars on a hoon for good measure. And then, for added piquancy, add in 2 separate full-on cycle road races on major A roads (A27 dual carriageway section; A29/A24 single carriageway sections) with Tour-de-France style lycra clad madmen oblivious to the rules of the road.

Mix in well, allow to marinate and simmer for a few hours. The result is an unsavoury mélange of unnecessary tailbacks and long delays, masses of precarious overtakes from frustrated bikers and drivers, a few (very) near cycle/biker/car interfaces, several near head-on collisions and one must assume two very successful cycle races.

So, why exactly is this allowed? And who gives these feckers permission to race like nutters on major public roads? How is this deemed safe?

Edited by Diderot on Sunday 22 March 18:51

Another anti-cycling thread...

Well it would be better if the roads were closed. However the majority of selfish motorists, inconsiderate of a sport which is beginning to show some real promise at last in the UK, would certainly not be having that and cyclists mostly have to take their chances racing on open roads.

Road races and time-trials are subject to different regulations but I can assure you that most organisers do their best to minimise disruption and maintain safety.

If you go over to mainland Europe you will find an entirely different attitude to cyclists where they are given some respect on the road.

If you come across a cycle race - hold back, give the cyclists plenty of room and overtake only when it is safe to do so.

BW

Not an anti-cycling thread, an anti-racing on the public highway and causing a damned fecking nuisance thread.

The public highway should not be used for any form of racing - not by cars, motorbikes or cyclists. It's totally irresponsible, and a highly dangerous cocktail, especially on very busy A roads on sundays.

If you want to race, go to a fecking Velodrome or get a city centre closed off.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Since when were the roads the preserve of motorists?

I seem to recall that cyclists have a right in law to use the roads, and that motorists do not.

Don't let that stop your silly little rant though.

Pardon me for expressing an opinion about whether it is right to race on the road or not.

If you're too thickheaded/ignorant/obdurate (delete as appropriate) to conceptualise the difference, then that's your fault.

[Diderot]

Try living in West Sussex...

thinfourth2 said:

Nobody You Know said:

Why is it that it is an offence to race cars on the road (even if you don't speed) yet if you race a bicycle (which follow the same highway) it's fine?

fking outrageous.

Oh god you are starting to sound like a bloody rambler who want everything fun banned so they can go rambling in abject misery.

Be thankful the cyclists still have the right to go cycling and show them some respect and courtesy

Can you imagine the screams of horror from the motorists if they did close the roads completely so the cyclist could race?

The motorist won't be happy until the cyclists are completely banned from the road.

So let the lycra clad men have their fun as if you set the fun police on them the fun police will come after us next.

Oh and how would you feel if they stopped tarmac rallys on public roads so that the bloody motorist wasn't held up or delayed.

Get a life and let some other folk use the roads as you don't have a exclusive right to them

Quite why you are unable to see the difference between being allowed to ride a bike on the road and being involved in a bike race on an open major A road on a busy Sunday is beyond my ken.

[Diderot]

Cyclist in inability to see logic, reason and the nuances of an argument shocker.

[Diderot]

chris.mapey said:

Having been in the vicinty when some of these racers were scraped off the blacktop...

I have no issue with cycling as a means of transport on the roads at all.

I just question about the sense in having orgainsed time trial racing on open public roads.

IMHO It's a bit like holding a Marathon without closing the roads first

Precisely.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Since when were the roads the preserve of motorists?

I seem to recall that cyclists have a right in law to use the roads, and that motorists do not.

Don't let that stop your silly little rant though.

Pardon me for expressing an opinion about whether it is right to race on the road or not.

If you're too thickheaded/ignorant/obdurate (delete as appropriate) to conceptualise the difference, then that's your fault.

So what risks to the general public do you perceive there to be, in a cycle race on public roads?

If you really have to ask such a question then I'm assuming you didn't delete anything...

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

If you really have to ask such a question then I'm assuming you didn't delete anything...

Don't avoid the question, answer it.

Don't ignore the glaringly obvious, think about it.

[Diderot]

swerni said:

And if all that wasn't enough, the roads were also full of c0cks in Porches and 4x4's.
Should ban the lot of them

That was almost clever.

[Diderot]

Buzz word said:

Diderot said:

I wanted to go and play on the swings but some other boys were there and hogged them and went too slow.

It's all quite legal. It sounds like a classic situation where everyone is out getting on with what they wanted to do and you have aimed the rant at the cyclists because they were slowest and you don't like their clothes.

A classic lack of patience for everyone else and then calling everyone else selfish which is a practice that's really started to grind my gears a bit lately. It's all a bit of give and take. Maybe if people were generally more tolerant situations where loads of different road groups are out trying to enjoy themselves the day wouldn't descend into a death race.

Another I-like-playing-the-victimised-cyclist in misunderstanding the disquisition shocker.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

If you really have to ask such a question then I'm assuming you didn't delete anything...

Don't avoid the question, answer it.

Don't ignore the glaringly obvious, think about it.

So you can't/won't answer the question. I see. You'll probably answer this post with another silly retort.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Sunday 22 March 21:16

No I don't think you do see.

Which part of 'standing up pedalling at full tilt 3 abreast through a 30 limit and nearly taking out 2 old dears on a crossing, or straightlining a roundabout at speed and not bothering to indicate which exit they were planning to take (and nearly causing a pile up), or riding on the wrong side of the road oblivious to traffic behind because they were 'racing', or riding in a huge group at c.30mph in a 70 limit on the A27 causing long delays' do you not see?

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

DocSteve said:

Diderot said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

If you really have to ask such a question then I'm assuming you didn't delete anything...

Don't avoid the question, answer it.

Don't ignore the glaringly obvious, think about it.

So you can't/won't answer the question. I see. You'll probably answer this post with another silly retort.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Sunday 22 March 21:16

No I don't think you do see.


Which part of 'standing up pedalling at full tilt 3 abreast through a 30 limit and nearly taking out 2 old dears on a crossing, or straightlining a roundabout at speed and not bothering to indicate which exit they were planning to take (and nearly causing a pile up), or riding on the wrong side of the road oblivious to traffic behind because they were 'racing', or riding in a huge group at c.30mph in a 70 limit on the A27 causing long delays' do you not see?

Responsible cyclists (whether racing or not) do not behave like that on the public road.

Do you want a pissing competition about bad habits of drivers vs cyclists, and which are more dangerous? If so, I think you'll find that racing cyclists have rarely killed an old dear at a crossing, caused major pile-ups and traffic delays but rather motorists consistently and regularly do these things, resulting in many deaths every year.

So, let's ban cars and leave the roads free for cyclists in that case.

Cycle racing on the highway is regulated by the law "Cycle Racing on the Highway 1960". Organisers are attempting to have his law updated so that more races can take places safely and without causing unnecessary obstruction on the roads. Some people here have got on their high horse about what activities involving roaduse are "essential". Surely a motoring enthusiasts' website should have more insight than to ask for the banning of something because it is dangerous and non-essential. I can almost guarantee, Diderot, that you have used the roads for non-essential activities and consequently exposed yourself and the public to a greater risk than a road cyclist racing early on Sunday morning.

Perception of risk is something humans are particularly bad at and I see in a professional capacity regularly - this is being well displayed here it seems.

Took the words straight from my mouth.

Well, you are a parrot.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Better a brain of feathers than a heart of lead.

Better a velodrome or a track, than racing in anger on a public A road.

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Diderot, do you accept that as car drivers, you and me form part of a group that kills 3,000 a year, maims and injures hundreds of thousands more, clogs the roads up almost 24/7, causes all the constant road building and upgrading which causes massive congestion, has caused almost every roundabout of any reasonable size to have to have traffic lights installed on them, we bring entire cities to grinding halts almost every day, we trun pensioners into prisoners because they simply cannot get across busy roads, we kill more cyclists and children pro rata than most if not all western countries and we damage the health of everybody?

You're gonna have to remind me what was so terrible about what those cyclists did mate. You and i and all our fellow car users are going to cause each and every one of us to lose countless hours of our lives over this year, enough hours to add up to entire days possibly, but i know that cyclists will not lose me more than 5 minutes in 2009.

And btw - you mentioned those classic cars - most of them won't be paying ved for their vehicles either, so why haven't you and the rest of the blue rinse set moaned about them?

For gods sake man, get a grip on reality. When cyclists get anywhere near causing as much harm as you, then you can say summat.

You get a grip on the subject matter of the discussion!

For the last time, my beef isn't with cyclists per se, or cycling in general. It's about whether it is sensible to have cyclists racing in so called 'organised' races on very busy A roads which are open to the public.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Diderot said:

You get a grip on the subject matter of the discussion!

For the last time, my beef isn't with cyclists per se, or cycling in general. It's about whether it is sensible to have cyclists racing in so called 'organised' races on very busy A roads which are open to the public.

Your original post was a bitter, abusive denunciation of the length of time by which you and others were delayed due to the presence of cyclists on the road. What those cyclists were doing is irrelevant to that delay, you are using the fact that they were in a race to give some weight to your simplistic little rant. Really, what it boils down to is that you think you own the roads and have more right to use them than the other people you mention in the same piffle-tastic platitude.

Far be it from me to tell you what your own thread is predicated on.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Sunday 22 March 23:57

Far be it from to tell you that you are either functionally illiterate or you are wilfully misreading what was originally written.

[Diderot]

Parrot of Doom said:

Really, is repeating my words the best argument you can come up with? You seem completely unable to answer even the simplest question. Nothing you have described regarding the behaviour of these cyclists (I have little doubt your story is very heavily embellished) would surprise anyone if it were ascribed to your average motorist.

Is this ad hominem attrition loop the best you could come up with?

I have answered your question; that you cannot read it, comprehend it and effectively process simple information is really not my concern. You seem incapable of discerning the difference between cycling/driving and racing on a busy A road, which leads me to conclude that you are not the brightest parrot in the company.

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Busa_Rush said:

Good, it's the public highway, there for anybody to use. If you want to race use a race track like the rest of us.

The rest of us don't use race tracks for motorsport, many are able to use the roads for their motorsport and we don't want more nimbys ruining it for us.

So you race on the road?

[Diderot]

So, exactly which other road users are 'inherently' entitled to use the second road in your pics Heebee?

[Diderot]

DocSteve said:

tinman0 said:

DocSteve said:

Good post! Yes - I did the Etape du Tour a few years back alongside Alain Prost.

So? A few F1 drivers cycle for fitness and pleasure. Makes no difference.

Everyone is determined to put the needs of the cyclist above those of the motorist. My point that I made in the other thread is that as road users we are all equal, we share the road, and we respect other users of the road.

If you are unable to see yourself as an equal, if you are unable to share the road, and if you are unable to respect other roads users needs, then you should not be on the road, pretending that your right exceeds everyone elses.

The point that was being made is that it is possible not to be so blinkered, and the fact that drivers far more accomplished than yourself enjoy the sport to keep fit and aren't "rogered up the arse" by lycra-clad cyclists as you so elegantly put it.

Respecting other road users is key to this argument and I do not believe that such vitriol against cyclists is showing any degree of respect whatsoever. I maintain that cyclists rarely impede progress of motorists and those motorists who are regularly inconvenienced by cyclists probably need to reevaluate their driving skills.

I love a good hoon in my car (unlike some cyclists who have the polar opposite, and equally blinkered, viewpoint to yourself) and also use my car as a mode of transport. I have occasionally been annoyed by cyclists riding without lights, riding on the pavement etc but mainly due to the fact that I don't want be responsible for killing these fools. These people are usually not cycling enthusiasts but the irresponsible section of society who would also drive a car with no MOT and whilst drunk. Not a property of cyclists, just idiots in general.

Ranting about racing cyclists here is just plain ridiculous. I joined PH as a motoring enthusiast to discuss cars and driving - I'm disappointed to discover such a level of intolerance for others here and suggest that perhaps you should consider the facts before you post misinformed and offensive nonsense about a sport which is starting to excel in the UK.

If anyone could let us know the details of a motorist who has been killed or seriously injured by a cyclist, do carry on. Otherwise, can this thread be wrapped up??

I'm sorry Doc Steve but there's absolutely no vitriol being aimed at cyclists here. It maybe too subtle a point (since this is probably the 4th or 5th iteration of it) and clearly you're feeling victimised but as it states very clearly in the opening post, it's whether so-called 'organised' cycle racing is appropriate on very busy open A roads. A few small notices and one or two 'marshalls' does not an organised and safe event make. Either get the road closed-off completely, or take the event to a track like everyone else who wants to race.

Oh, and with regard to your closing paragraph, a quick google... remember, it's not just motorists, motorcyclists and cyclists who are entitled to go about their lives on busy A roads; people have houses on them, businesses on them, and walk on the pavements next to them

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-234...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/hert...

Edited by Diderot on Tuesday 24th March 08:22

Edited by Diderot on Tuesday 24th March 08:25

[Diderot]

heebeegeetee said:

Diderot said:

So, exactly which other road users are 'inherently' entitled to use the second road in your pics Heebee?

Just showing you the sort of roads that car drivers close on a regular basis.

Hammer67 said:

heebeegeetee said:

Just think, if we were as tolerant as the French we could enjoy great weekends watching/doing stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xjYaxLPOe0

Ha Ha Ha, the French tolerant?

yes mate, absolutely every time, a thousand times more tolerant than us.

This business is run by a mate of mine. http://www.classicrallytours.com/
Quite simply, it is easier for an Englishman to organise events in France and Belguim than it is for him to organise them in England, and the reason for that is because England is populated with wall to wall nimbys, who don't give a fk for anyone but themselves.

People over here, they'll choke the roads up with massive congestion every single day, but the minute, the very *minute* they are held up by someone else they are spitting feathers, and they want something banned, BANNED! i say, whatever it is BAN IT!!!! SOMEBODY HELD ME UP FOR 5 MINUTES MY WORLD CAME TO AN END NEVER MIND THE FACT THAT I CLOSE ROADS FOR WHOLE HOURS NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO HOLD ME UP NOBODY I PAY ROAD TAX I OWN THE ROADS GODDAMMIT THEY'RE FOR ME, ME ONLY ME ALONE AND NOBODY ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Phew. I'm glad i'm not a nimby.

Edited by heebeegeetee on Tuesday 24th March 08:35

Heebee, cyclists, pedestrians and horse riders are not permitted to use MOTORways (big clue in the name)- you know, those roads designed and constructed uniquely for the use of drivers/riders of motorised vehicles.