DVLA vs Liquid Knight
Discussion
Some of you may be aware I'm having an issue with the DVLA at the moment. Basically they have issued a SORN fine for a car I declared as scrap over a year before hand.
No SORN reminder, just a pay £40 now or else it'll be £80 later letter.
I replied to this and the £40 was extended an extra two weeks.
I replied to this outlaying the fact that the DVLA have ignored the Law and are imposing a fine for an offence that had not been commited.
The DVLA removed the £40 cusion and ordered me to pay the £80 or else collection agencies would be involved.
I have invited the DVLA to court and am currently awaiting their reply.
So if I go to court I'd like as much ammunition as possible to throw at the DVLAs face. If you have been messed about by the DVLA, paid a fine for their mistake or had some other issue then air it here and I will read them out before the court to show the DVLA are as one high court judge described as "unfit for purpose" to the Magestrate in the court if/when I have to present evidence.
The original thread is here....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...and the "DVLA-la-la I'm not listening" thread is here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thank you for any contributions.
All the best Rob
No SORN reminder, just a pay £40 now or else it'll be £80 later letter.
I replied to this and the £40 was extended an extra two weeks.
I replied to this outlaying the fact that the DVLA have ignored the Law and are imposing a fine for an offence that had not been commited.
The DVLA removed the £40 cusion and ordered me to pay the £80 or else collection agencies would be involved.
I have invited the DVLA to court and am currently awaiting their reply.
So if I go to court I'd like as much ammunition as possible to throw at the DVLAs face. If you have been messed about by the DVLA, paid a fine for their mistake or had some other issue then air it here and I will read them out before the court to show the DVLA are as one high court judge described as "unfit for purpose" to the Magestrate in the court if/when I have to present evidence.
The original thread is here....
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
...and the "DVLA-la-la I'm not listening" thread is here.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Thank you for any contributions.
All the best Rob
If someone took £80 out of my wallet I would kick off.
What makes the DVLA trying to steal £80 any different?
The DVLA need to learn they are not above the law and we are fed up of being mugged.
If they take me to court I will fight my corner until I'm held in contempt, if they decide not to and send a "no further action" letter it will be an admission of guilt on their part and I will release all the information to the press.
The DVLA made over £10,000,000 in SORN fines last year. How many of those were fraudulent?
What makes the DVLA trying to steal £80 any different?
The DVLA need to learn they are not above the law and we are fed up of being mugged.
If they take me to court I will fight my corner until I'm held in contempt, if they decide not to and send a "no further action" letter it will be an admission of guilt on their part and I will release all the information to the press.
The DVLA made over £10,000,000 in SORN fines last year. How many of those were fraudulent?
GarryA said:
Did you receive a letter from the DVLA acknowledging the car as scrap?
You should have within 6 weeks of sending the V5 off, they will ask you this.........
They already have and I did not, but the DVLA say the acknowledgement letter is irrefutable proof that they recieved the V5. All this letter proves is the fact they sent the letter and nothing more. Also there is not statute of law that states the customer has to chase the paperwork if the DVLA fail to recieve or process the document. The responsability of the customer ends at the post box. According to the interpetitions act at least. You should have within 6 weeks of sending the V5 off, they will ask you this.........
Cotty said:
Liquid Knight said:
Some of you may be aware I'm having an issue with the DVLA at the moment. Basically they have issued a SORN fine for a car I declared as scrap over a year before hand.
I don't know which is why I am asking but what happens to the ownership of a car when its scrapped i.e. the V5. I assume it still has you as the owner, what should it show when no one owns it and it gets scrapped?The DVLA only keeps records of post recieved for six months so how can they prove I did or did not send a letter to them over a year ago is beyond me.
AdeTuono said:
BliarOut said:
You have fully discharged your responsibility by placing the V5 in a post box.
No-one's listening, despite the truth of what you say. Let them get on with being an easy target for these t
ts. I'm with the OP; it may only be £40 this time, but if the public roll over and say 'screw me', as many on here seem to, you're giving them carte blanche to extort money time after time.
What about when they put the fine up to £200, or £100 for early payment? Where do you draw the line?
Here's the real clincher. Either the DVLA take me to court and they haven't got a chance or they admit they are at fault and drop the fine completely.
In the later case this admission of fault is also an admission of guilt. The DVLA have been trying to obtain monies from me and if this turns out to be for no reason it's attempted theft. "The Theft Act 1969"
So who do I ask the Police to arrest, Mr. Phillip Hammond MP or the numpty who has been sending me threatening letters?
In the later case this admission of fault is also an admission of guilt. The DVLA have been trying to obtain monies from me and if this turns out to be for no reason it's attempted theft. "The Theft Act 1969"
So who do I ask the Police to arrest, Mr. Phillip Hammond MP or the numpty who has been sending me threatening letters?
Got another reply from the DVLA and it turns out they can't take me to Magistrates court because I have not broken any law. In the same letter they use four different "Acts" and the words......
"law", "laws", "legal", "legally", "evidence", "mittigation" and "defence" several times.
So if I haven't broken the law how can they use the law to carry any favour? Basically I have been imposed an administration fee for the DVLA failing to administer my paperwork correctly in the first place.
If it's an offence for collection companies to impose fines, penalty notices and such for parking on private property why are the DVLA allowed to impersonate a court by imposing a "penalty notice" for failing to declare a vehicle as SORN?
So as well as attempted theft the DVLA are also impersonating a court/Police officer. Hmmmmm
"law", "laws", "legal", "legally", "evidence", "mittigation" and "defence" several times.
So if I haven't broken the law how can they use the law to carry any favour? Basically I have been imposed an administration fee for the DVLA failing to administer my paperwork correctly in the first place.
If it's an offence for collection companies to impose fines, penalty notices and such for parking on private property why are the DVLA allowed to impersonate a court by imposing a "penalty notice" for failing to declare a vehicle as SORN?
So as well as attempted theft the DVLA are also impersonating a court/Police officer. Hmmmmm
davidjpowell said:
I don't know what you have done to get their backs up.
Are there any members of the DVLA-reich also members of Pistonheads? Are they giving me a hard time of it because they don't like being made to look this stubborn, thieving jobsworths on the UK's most popular motoring website? Is it a case of "when a pussy gets full of st it's worse than an ahole" Trey Parker/Matt Stone? Just as well I'm a dick eh?
BonzoG said:
Carparticus said:
Funny thing was that they issued all the threatening letters to my NEW address ... implying rather strongly that they had indeed received my original V5 … Doh.
That would have been absolutely hilarious to reveal in court."Would the prosecution please explain how they got Mr. Caparticus' new address to fine him for not sending in the V5?"
"Erm... from the V5 m'lud..."
Just a reminder for those of you who are on board.....
http://www.facebook.com/?ref=logo#!/event.php?eid=...
...copy and paste the link to other motoring forums you're on and your own facebook profile.
NorthernBoy said:
I'd insist on recorded delivery or, far better, allow it to be handed in at the post office (I.e. Not posted, actually given to them), with a receipt given.
Recorded delivery isn't adequate evidence either. When you send the DVLA a copy of the reciept they'll just say it "could be for anything send at the time and does not prove postage and/or reciept". As far as the DVLA are conserned you are guilty until proven innocent and still guilty anyway.
Guilty and treated like a criminal even though the DVLA themselves admitted I have commited no criminal offence so they couldn't take me to court. The SORN penalty notice is so similar to a Police issued fixed penalty notice that it can be (and has been by me) interprited as a fine and not the glorified administration charge that it actually is. This is a deliberate action by the DVLA to make people pay up or risk the illusion of getting into further trouble. By making people believe the DVLA has more power than it actually does makes the DVLA no better than the thieving parking administration companies tha DVLA sells our addresses to.
GeraldSmith said:
So playing devil's advocate here - how would you set up the system?
Obviously being able to do things on line would help, but there needs to be a non on-line system as well. Do you suggest that they just trust everyone? So saying 'I put it in the post' is enough. Or do you insist on recorded delivery? Or do you say 'we'll send you an acknowledgement, get in touch if you don't receive it'?
It's easy to whine about the system but how would you make it better?
Scrap it completely and start from scratch. The DVLA have had nearly a hundred years to get a system together that works and has failed. It's another quango the country doesn't need.Obviously being able to do things on line would help, but there needs to be a non on-line system as well. Do you suggest that they just trust everyone? So saying 'I put it in the post' is enough. Or do you insist on recorded delivery? Or do you say 'we'll send you an acknowledgement, get in touch if you don't receive it'?
It's easy to whine about the system but how would you make it better?
mcdziubek said:
Hello
I'm Mac I live in London.
Today I've receive a letter from the repo company that I owe some money.
I phone them up and a lady told me I must pay 80 pounds because I didn't register the SORN on my moped.
I have sent to DVLA in November 2009 an export form of the v5 - I fill it out and send it to Swansea.
Since then I never heard from them until today. On 15 December 2009 I moved home few streets away - I was checking the previous address for any post for me. I never received any reminder to SORN the bike or to TAX it.
I never received confirmation that the moped has been removed from the register - I didn't know I they are sending that sort of documents.
Secondly - when I told her that I don't think it's good idea to hand over my debit card details to her before checking if this is correct - so she replied "if you'll not pay today I'll send somebody to take payment from you anyway". I told her that she can collect the money on my payday which is Friday - by this I gave myself 2 days to sort this out.
I'll block my debit card if necessary.
Do you think I should pay?
What should I do now?
Don't pay a thing to anyone. They can't make you pay or send anyone round until they have a court order to do so. Threatening to do this is seriously illegal. If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea, call the Police from another room, report an attempted theft and don't let on. It's either a company acting unlawfully for the DVLA or a scam artist. The Police should arrest them upon arrival. Trying to obtain monies allegedly owed without a court order or fraud. Either way they should leave your home in cuffs. I'm Mac I live in London.
Today I've receive a letter from the repo company that I owe some money.
I phone them up and a lady told me I must pay 80 pounds because I didn't register the SORN on my moped.
I have sent to DVLA in November 2009 an export form of the v5 - I fill it out and send it to Swansea.
Since then I never heard from them until today. On 15 December 2009 I moved home few streets away - I was checking the previous address for any post for me. I never received any reminder to SORN the bike or to TAX it.
I never received confirmation that the moped has been removed from the register - I didn't know I they are sending that sort of documents.
Secondly - when I told her that I don't think it's good idea to hand over my debit card details to her before checking if this is correct - so she replied "if you'll not pay today I'll send somebody to take payment from you anyway". I told her that she can collect the money on my payday which is Friday - by this I gave myself 2 days to sort this out.
I'll block my debit card if necessary.
Do you think I should pay?
What should I do now?
Good luck Rob
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not.Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
tenohfive said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
Strangely Brown said:
Liquid Knight said:
If anyone does come round, politely invite them in for a cup of tea
Seriously, that is really bad advice. Do not, ever, invite a bailiff or debt collector into your home, whether they have grounds for entry or not."Come in and have a cup of tea while the misses is at the cash point; I'll give her a call to let her know you're early" then 999.
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