RE: PH Heroes: Honda NSX

RE: PH Heroes: Honda NSX

Monday 24th January 2011

PH Heroes: Honda NSX

A car that was partly developed by Ayrton Senna? Definitely a hero...



There's not the same novelty value as when Honda launched this, its first supercar, in 1990, but you still get a buzz when the NSX's VTEC system hits 6250rpm and kicks into rampant life. The surprisingly rich, deep, refined tone of the V6 suddenly loses its smooth edge, turns grittier, more menacing, and the revs soar as if the engine has been blessed with a mid-run revamp. And the higher the revs rise, the more this naturally aspirated motor sounds like a competition unit, tuned as only the Japanese know how.


The 3.0-litre VTEC will rev to 8000rpm, a party piece that seems slightly old hat these days, but which marked out the New Sports car eXperimental as a supercar extraordinaire when Honda wheeled out the first production model at the 1989 Chicago Auto Show.

Now we've got hot hatches with bigger capacity engines in the front and boasting as much power as the 270bhp the mid-engined Honda started out with; the difference is, what the NSX has got can be applied in a more satisfying way, thanks to rear-wheel drive and an original team of development drivers that included Satoru Nakajimi, Bobby Rahal and, famously, Ayrton Senna.


Even in its youth, though, the NSX initially came across as the supercar playground weakling - not enough cylinders (everyone else had eight or 12) and not enough power. But the Japanese newcomer managed to avoid being bullied by staying light on its toes, nimble where it mattered, especially around a track.

Honda deployed its then considerable motorsport might in the development of the NSX, a tactic that often cancelled out its Top Trumps spec deficiencies. In 2003, for example, an NSX-R matched a Ferrari F360 Challenge Stradale around the Nürburgring, despite the latter's extra 100 horses; these days you could create a whole marketing campaign around a feat like that - just ask Nissan.


Honda's engineering ethos has always focussed on efficiency, and as Colin Chapman had previously proven to some effect, you can achieve great efficiency through light weight. Remove mass from the body, for instance, and you then don't need such a large, heavy engine to propel it, nor such large brakes to stop it, you can reduce the size and weight of the wheels - and so it goes on. The NSX was the world's first supercar to use an aluminium monocoque body. Which saved about 200kg compared with a steel equivalent. Incorporated into the body was an extruded aluminium frame, for strength and to attach components to, together with aluminium suspension and an all-alloy engine.


That all equates to lightness you can feel from behind the wheel. You can feel it in the NSX's willingness to change direction; in the way that, once you've changed tack, there's not the momentum of excess weight trying to drag you further around. You can feel it in how the springs and dampers don't feel overworked, or in how snappily the Honda responds to the throttle and dives into three-figure speeds, and in how brutally fast it comes to a halt when you're serious with the nicely progressive and feelsome brakes.

The only heaviness associated with the NSX is its steering in slow, tight corners. Bucking yet another piece of traditionalism, Honda equipped its supercar with the world's first electric power steering. On a modern car, electric power steering means being able to park one-fingered and arcade game feedback, but to hustle the NSX over any great distance, you'll be wanting to work on your shoulders and biceps before you get in.

Meaty steering is the Honda's anomaly - everything else about it was designed to make it convenient to own and to encourage you to drive it as often as possible. Bit like a 911, in fact, though somewhat more exclusive and with the engine a little further forward in the chassis. The NSX's reputation for everyday usability is now so ingrained that even when we pick up Honda UK's 21-year-old demonstrator from its home in Slough, we don't hesitate about using it just like we would were we relieving the press office of a 2011 Civic for a few hours.


Okay, we are slightly wary of the consequences if a mishap should befall this particular car. It's a pre-production prototype (which means Honda can either crush it or keep it - it can't be sold), and its claim to fame is that Ayrton Senna is alleged to have once driven it briefly around the roads of Chiswick. For a while it was butchered by trainee mechanics at the Honda Institute as they honed their skills, before being stuck outside to decay. A couple of guys from the press workshop later reclaimed the NSX - said to be the second ever in the UK - and restored it for use as a sort of 'museum' demonstrator. The fact that it has done less than 12,000 miles suggests they're pretty picky who they lend it to...


On the trip down to our photographic location on Salisbury Plains, the NSX proves an amiable companion. Ride quality on the motorway is fine, helped by the damping effect of the substantially upholstered seats, and visibility is excellent - the glasshouse was modelled on that of an F16 fighter jet and, while we're not inspecting the clouds for signs of bandits at 12 o'clock, the fact that the NSX stands knee-high to an SUV does make you wary of trucks.

There's not too much road or wind noise; no tramlining from the steering or thumping from the chassis. The air-con's chilly, the radio easy to tune. And the V6 has enough torque to waft you along at 3000rpm. (The auto works well on the motorway, too, but never be tempted to buy one - it ruins the driving pleasure everywhere else.)


Which is all very... worthy. A considerable achievement given the NSX can also scorch around a track. But it does leave you wondering if perhaps your supercar ought to feel, well, supercar-ish all the time, even on the run down to Tesco.

On the other hand, the Honda's friendliness extends to its behaviour in extremis. Gentle understeer evolving into a progressively sliding tail, with none of the snappiness, say, of a contemporary mid-engined Ferrari. Compliant suspension that, while allowing more body roll than you'd expect, doesn't become jittery at speed over rough surfaces. A well-judged balance between the responses of all the major controls. A lack of threat from the chassis and aggression from the engine. It's a car you quickly have confidence in, a confidence that ultimately builds into very high speed.

The NSX continued to improve throughout its life. In 1997 the engine grew into a 3.2-litre with 290bhp, while in 2003 the second generation lightweight NSX-R proved that Ferrari and Porsche didn't have the monopoly on insane road racers. But the original NSX was the most remarkable of the bunch. Remarkable that Honda did it at all. Remarkable that it broke with supercar convention in its powertrain and construction. Remarkable that it was done so well and could go so quickly. That it could never quite out-point the other establishment players, failed to arouse the same sort of intense passion, doesn't make the NSX any less of a hero.









Pics: Brett and Antony Fraser

Author
Discussion

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Monday 24th January 2011
quotequote all
God I miss mine...

I know the original 3 litre, non PAS cars, are seen as the best but, call me biased, I'd rather have my 3.2 6 speed. Little bit more power and a 2nd gear that isn't quite so crazy.

Perhaps the auto made it feel more normal, but I never felt I was driving a normal car when I took mine to the shops. It did have a sense of occasion. And it had its foibles, like a gearbox that needed warming up before it worked well.

What a massive shame that Honda UK chose to keep an auto.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Monday 24th January 2011
quotequote all
CampDavid said:
How do other road users respond to an NSX?

Just thinking that it probably doesn't garner the Porsche effect like it's rivals.

I'd like a silver one please, like Mr Wolf
Very well in my experience, it always got lovely comments, lots of people used to ask about it. Never had the BMW/Porsche problem of not being let out of junctions etc.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Monday 24th January 2011
quotequote all
Harry Monk said:
What was Senna's input on this car? I hear his name bandied about a lot whenever the NSX is mentioned but does anyone have any concrete info on how he assisted development?

Edited by Harry Monk on Monday 24th January 14:30
He did some development driving. His input wasn't as great as people like to think, by all accounts. But, for example, he did tell engineers that the cars high speed braking stability wasn't great (which, by the way, led them to dial in a large amount of toe-in on the rear suspension, giving the car its voracious appetite for rear tyres).

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Monday 24th January 2011
quotequote all
yonex said:
NoelWatson said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I'd love one, particularly an early one - I don't think the facelift was an improvement.

Though I think the straight line speed might be slightly disappointing by modern standards.
Compared to what?
He has a point. Not that you'd want to buy one for 0-100 tests but as a measurement of where they are compared to current cars its a useful reference.

Would you honestly say that the NSX is very fast car?

Edit Norton Way (Letchworth) have/had a highly regarded NSX Technician and service facility.

Edited by yonex on Monday 24th January 16:02
It's enough performance. Its a car that you can still drive hard on a public road and not feel like you ought to go straight to jail.

It's probably a similar level of performance to a standard Lotus Evora (since they have similar power and weight levels, I assume they'll be similar, lots of assumptions there ... the Evora actually felt a little slower to me).

Compared to modern Ferraris and Porsche then yes, relatively speaking, its slow. I guess a modern hot hatch could give it a run for its money, but that says more about the market and its obsession with horsepower.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Tuesday 25th January 2011
quotequote all
Some depressing willy waving from current NSX owners. As a past owner, and I'm repeating myself, the car has enough power for the public road. Its a quick car when compared to family cars etc, and its plenty enough to have fun in. I'd say its the right amount of power to be honest.

But, sorry guys, its not a quick car compared to a lot of modern big power sports cars. And the fact is that whilst something like the RS might be slower, it isn't going to be that far off, and may even feel a little quicker behind the wheel thanks to torquey turbo.

Some of you need to realise you own a 20 year old design. Its a seminal, brilliant car, but you don't buy it for pub 0-60 boasting.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Wednesday 26th January 2011
quotequote all
Think its a little difficult to describe what makes it a supercar, but for me part of it is the bespoke nature of the car. Everything was unique on it, and engineered meticulously. The cars were mostly hand built, if I recall, and also sold at a sizeable loss. It was a car made without many compromises, with the assistance of contemporary racing drivers, one of them a legend.

Oh, wait, I just managed to describe why its a supercar.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th January 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
No ones denying the greatness of the car, we are talking about the impact it had on other manufactures...yet to see a good example.
The 360 was aluminium.

Is that a good enough example for you?

Edited by scampbird on Thursday 27th January 16:17

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th January 2011
quotequote all
Rawwr said:
scampbird said:
The 360 was aluminium.

Is that concrete enough for you?
scratchchin
Yeah yeah yeah, smart arse.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th January 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
scampbird said:
Dagnut said:
No ones denying the greatness of the car, we are talking about the impact it had on other manufactures...yet to see a good example.
The 360 was aluminium.

Is that a good enough example for you?

Edited by scampbird on Thursday 27th January 16:17
So they stood and took notice and made and aluminium framed car...8 years later..and 2 models later? how many aluminium cars where there in that time?
The 355 came out not long after the NSX, from memory. To totally redesign a car using a new material takes a while.

But I doubt there'll be any convincing you.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th January 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
scampbird said:
Dagnut said:
scampbird said:
Dagnut said:
No ones denying the greatness of the car, we are talking about the impact it had on other manufactures...yet to see a good example.
The 360 was aluminium.

Is that a good enough example for you?

Edited by scampbird on Thursday 27th January 16:17
So they stood and took notice and made and aluminium framed car...8 years later..and 2 models later? how many aluminium cars where there in that time?
The 355 came out not long after the NSX, from memory. To totally redesign a car using a new material takes a while.

But I doubt there'll be any convincing you.
Sorry it's just a debate, I'm not belligerent just for the sake of it ..the 355 came out in 1994. Usually it takes some reasonable evidence to convince me is all.
The NSX is like some kind religion...with the gospels according to St Murray and Senna...it's ok to love the car and not believe the hype and have a reasonable debate
It does seem fairly accepted, though, not just by a bunch of internet idiots but car journalists as well, that the NSX made Ferrari and Porsche sit up.

I mean fine, don't accept that. You have every right to question the sources, but to try and make us say "look, look there - that suspension setup is a direct copy" isn't going to happen. The aluminium example is probably the best anyone can do. I think the reality is it just persuaded Ferrari and Porsche that their products ought to be a lot better all round, even if they didn't copy anything specifically.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Thursday 27th January 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
I just don't see bringing out a car 8 years later as sitting up and taking notice.
A GTR hitting the market place and Porsche getting their hands on one to specifically dis-credit their laptime, releasing the S version with PDK and a working launch control and a sub 3sec 0-60 time.. that's sitting up and taking notice.
Not that I'm comparing the GTR and the NSX> before you all attack me with the usual rhetoric...but I'm using that as an example of a car hitting the market and having a direct impact on a competitor
The 355 was better as a result of the NSX too, in my opinion. I just can't point you at the redesigned bolt.

Let me turn the argument on its head. If you were an established sports car manufacturer, and along came this newcomer who had produced something utterly different to you, and which journalists were (mostly) raving about, would you ignore it? Lets remember, back in those days, the Japanese had already shown up the West's cars as being unreliable, and here they were suddenly threatening the West's automotive crown jewels. Damn right they sat up and took notice.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Tuesday 1st February 2011
quotequote all
Briefly on Elise vs NSX - I tracked both cars, and yes the Elise was the better track car, mainly by virtue of more talkative steering. I didn't drive the NSX much on track, but when I did it made its few failures a lot more noticeable, those being slightly dead steering and soft suspension. But on the road it was the far better car, if only modern cars could ride bumps like the NSX.

Finally, on Mr Becker - wasn't this the chap that made the S2 Elise understeer like a pig? My abiding memory of my S2 Elise was either horrific understeer or dramatic snap oversteer.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Tuesday 1st February 2011
quotequote all
Harry Monk said:
Dialling in understeer was a 'fix' to prevent snap oversteer. Not sure where you're going with that one.
I'm going with "it wasn't a very good handling car".

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Tuesday 1st February 2011
quotequote all
yonex said:
Absolutely, said it pages ago, NSX owners are as versifarous as Civic owners and in some cases just as biased wink

I might even have to go to Japfest and put an unofficial stopwatch if anyone is on track. It's a shame that you can't discuss the weaknesses as an ex owner without being called a troll by experts but I did find it struck a chord in the article talking about body control, which I always found very average.

Most of them are getting on and the dampers and general bushes despite being fitted to the NSX and having special properties are going to be tired. Otherwise I am sure they would be lapping faster than Skylines and Evo's at Combe given like for like enthusiasts driving them?
With perhaps one exception I think the NSX lot have been pretty honest about the cars shortcomings, and most of the debate seemed quite balanced. I don't have an issue with the naysayers, everyone is different after all, and we all want different things out of a car.

Saying that, coming on here with the line of "I spent a day with a Lotus engineer and this, third hand, is what he said" isn't a great argument. And, as I think has been pointed out, even if that is true, its just a little silly coming from the man that created a car significantly worse handling than its predecessor.

scampbird

Original Poster:

268 posts

283 months

Tuesday 1st February 2011
quotequote all
Harry Monk said:
I drove the car extensively and consulted with Matt. I couldn't think of anything more first hand when it comes to assessing its qualities. But I guess that's not good enough for you and before you denigrate his work, it's probably fair to say that Mr Becker understands the requirements of Lotus' target market a good deal better than you.
I was his target market. I've owned both S1 and S2 Elises. Fair enough, I'm not the driver he is, but I know what I like. And the S2 sucked donkey arse through a straw.