997.2 GT3 RS Dilemma
Discussion
Opinions please PH Porschephiles.
I have a dilemma. I have recently bought and taken delivery of a 997.2 GT3 RS (the car was bought via Colchester OPC) – it’s a fantastic car, with the perfect specification - for me - Air Con, SatNav, Telephone prep, PCCB, Sports Chrono Plus, and Sound Package Plus etc but no front lift. The car is three years old, has had one owner prior to me and was first registered in August 2010. As it was bought via an OPC it came with a new 2 year warranty on it etc... it is exactly the car I wanted and that I was hoping to find.
I had been looking for a 997.2 GT3 RS for a while and had viewed a few, but foolishly took my time deciding whether to proceed and promptly missed the boat. This one came up for sale a few months ago and I leapt in – knowing that if I hung around it would be gone (like the others I had shown an interest in). So I rang the dealership as soon as it opened (the advert went ‘live’ on PH the night before) and placed a deposit on the car immediately.
So all good so far, a story with a happy ending – BUT, the car has only covered 317 miles, and so, even I (with my somewhat limited understanding of the collector car market) can see the potential investment opportunity this particular car presents. And this is perhaps also pertinent at the moment, given the recent discussions on here and in the press with regard to future values of specific Porsche models etc…
To be absolutely clear, I have never bought a car to put away and admire - I much prefer driving them and that’s why I started my search for one – because I wanted one to drive. And I have never bought a car as an investment, as the opportunity to do so, so rarely presents itself.
But, GT3 prices have stabilised recently and some (but not all) are currently rising. Having spoken to a couple of fellow ‘car enthusiast’ friends (the kind who own numerous cars and who know the market fairly well) the consensus seems to be – put it away and don’t drive it. This makes me very sad; but in many respects I can see their point.
So what to do - drive it and let it depreciate like every other car I have ever owned and loved, or put it away, care for it and make some money (potentially) in a few years time. Unfortunately, the value in this car (over that of others) is potentially all in the very low mileage and surety of history I am led to believe - the lower the mileage is and the proof of continuity of history and ownership and care, the more it will be worth in time. If the car had a few thousand miles on it there would of course be no debate and I would have no hesitation in just enjoying it as was intended…
To be honest, I don’t really see too much debate about the future value. The 4.0 RS is already out of reach for most in that they are either in the hands of collectors or with those who are using them as intended and who would not (and have no need to) sell.
The 997.2 RS is, as the last of the manual gearbox, hydraulic steering, Mezger engined cars (discounting the out of reach 4.0 RS), as close to a sure-thing as you can get I think, with the potential to rise significantly over time I believe – many/most are already £10k or so above where they were several months ago when I first started looking for one.
So opinions please – drive it and enjoy, or put it away and spend the money I potentially make on another with a few more miles on it later and pocket the difference?
Please don’t rush to the standard PH judgement call / automated response of ‘drive it you pussy’! If it were YOU in this position – what would YOU honestly do?
Note: I did originally ask this question of my friends hoping they would just say ‘drive it and forget the investment potential’ – but unfortunately they seem to have misunderstood my question; thinking I wanted an honest answer and not just an endorsement of my desire to drive the thing! That’ll teach me…
I have a dilemma. I have recently bought and taken delivery of a 997.2 GT3 RS (the car was bought via Colchester OPC) – it’s a fantastic car, with the perfect specification - for me - Air Con, SatNav, Telephone prep, PCCB, Sports Chrono Plus, and Sound Package Plus etc but no front lift. The car is three years old, has had one owner prior to me and was first registered in August 2010. As it was bought via an OPC it came with a new 2 year warranty on it etc... it is exactly the car I wanted and that I was hoping to find.
I had been looking for a 997.2 GT3 RS for a while and had viewed a few, but foolishly took my time deciding whether to proceed and promptly missed the boat. This one came up for sale a few months ago and I leapt in – knowing that if I hung around it would be gone (like the others I had shown an interest in). So I rang the dealership as soon as it opened (the advert went ‘live’ on PH the night before) and placed a deposit on the car immediately.
So all good so far, a story with a happy ending – BUT, the car has only covered 317 miles, and so, even I (with my somewhat limited understanding of the collector car market) can see the potential investment opportunity this particular car presents. And this is perhaps also pertinent at the moment, given the recent discussions on here and in the press with regard to future values of specific Porsche models etc…
To be absolutely clear, I have never bought a car to put away and admire - I much prefer driving them and that’s why I started my search for one – because I wanted one to drive. And I have never bought a car as an investment, as the opportunity to do so, so rarely presents itself.
But, GT3 prices have stabilised recently and some (but not all) are currently rising. Having spoken to a couple of fellow ‘car enthusiast’ friends (the kind who own numerous cars and who know the market fairly well) the consensus seems to be – put it away and don’t drive it. This makes me very sad; but in many respects I can see their point.
So what to do - drive it and let it depreciate like every other car I have ever owned and loved, or put it away, care for it and make some money (potentially) in a few years time. Unfortunately, the value in this car (over that of others) is potentially all in the very low mileage and surety of history I am led to believe - the lower the mileage is and the proof of continuity of history and ownership and care, the more it will be worth in time. If the car had a few thousand miles on it there would of course be no debate and I would have no hesitation in just enjoying it as was intended…
To be honest, I don’t really see too much debate about the future value. The 4.0 RS is already out of reach for most in that they are either in the hands of collectors or with those who are using them as intended and who would not (and have no need to) sell.
The 997.2 RS is, as the last of the manual gearbox, hydraulic steering, Mezger engined cars (discounting the out of reach 4.0 RS), as close to a sure-thing as you can get I think, with the potential to rise significantly over time I believe – many/most are already £10k or so above where they were several months ago when I first started looking for one.
So opinions please – drive it and enjoy, or put it away and spend the money I potentially make on another with a few more miles on it later and pocket the difference?
Please don’t rush to the standard PH judgement call / automated response of ‘drive it you pussy’! If it were YOU in this position – what would YOU honestly do?
Note: I did originally ask this question of my friends hoping they would just say ‘drive it and forget the investment potential’ – but unfortunately they seem to have misunderstood my question; thinking I wanted an honest answer and not just an endorsement of my desire to drive the thing! That’ll teach me…
Thanks for the responses so far – some really valid points and as I suspected the groundswell of opinion from the PH fraternity is ‘drive it’ – as I had hoped to be honest.
Part of me thinks I might consider ‘flipping’ the car for a quick profit and then buying another with a few more miles on it and pocketing the difference. But, having looked long and hard for a car I know how difficult it is to find one in the right spec’ without some kind of ‘history’. Most owners (it seems) at the moment are hanging on to them. And I think if I sold it, I would want to replace it with another fairly quickly and that the replacement would always be ‘second best’ in my mind.
I don’t ‘need’ to sell it, but a profit in the long or short-term is always worthy of serious consideration; perhaps on balance, measured against the sometimes more difficult to quantify benefits of ownership the intangible pleasures of ownership and use as intended win through.
I shall now return to my previous advisors on this matter and tell them they were wrong!
The car is Black/Grey and Red by the way. But apparently it’s not for sale!
Part of me thinks I might consider ‘flipping’ the car for a quick profit and then buying another with a few more miles on it and pocketing the difference. But, having looked long and hard for a car I know how difficult it is to find one in the right spec’ without some kind of ‘history’. Most owners (it seems) at the moment are hanging on to them. And I think if I sold it, I would want to replace it with another fairly quickly and that the replacement would always be ‘second best’ in my mind.
I don’t ‘need’ to sell it, but a profit in the long or short-term is always worthy of serious consideration; perhaps on balance, measured against the sometimes more difficult to quantify benefits of ownership the intangible pleasures of ownership and use as intended win through.
I shall now return to my previous advisors on this matter and tell them they were wrong!
The car is Black/Grey and Red by the way. But apparently it’s not for sale!
graeme4130 said:
Just consider the market value drivers;
Rarity (in the context of 'for sale') - Currently, Yes - But only because it's safe to assume that many of the owners are holding on pending delivery of 991GT3's or 991 GT3RS'
Classic Desirability - That depends entirely on how the 991 GT3 and RS' are received by the market. I believe the GT3 is already faster around the ring than the 7.2RS ?
Agreed to a point - the 997.2 GT3 RS is not as rare as some other models - the 4.0 RS for instance, but, a very low mileage 997.2 GT3 RS is.Rarity (in the context of 'for sale') - Currently, Yes - But only because it's safe to assume that many of the owners are holding on pending delivery of 991GT3's or 991 GT3RS'
Classic Desirability - That depends entirely on how the 991 GT3 and RS' are received by the market. I believe the GT3 is already faster around the ring than the 7.2RS ?
Desirability isn't intrinsically linked to the reception of the 991 GT3 and RS - as the 991 appeals to a slightly different (and broader) audience. Many I think will not 'trade up' to the 991 GT3 RS but will stay where they are or add a 991 GT3 RS to their fleet in addition to a 997. Others will be new to the marque.
graeme4130 said:
Mermaid has suggested, you're better off buying small flat and generating an income stream or putting your money into a long term commodity market / other investment
Agreed, but as I said a little earlier, I didn't initiallly buy the car as any sort of investment, I did buy it to use and enjoy; it was only once I had purchased it that I was alerted to the potential investment opportunity due to the low mileage.On balance, I think it will stay and I will just enjoy it. To replace it would be very difficult and the potential profit in the car does not yet outweigh the enjoyment to be gained...
shavenhaven said:
WHY THE f
k did you buy such a low-milage car???
I bought the car as it was the right spec' and the best available via an OPC, all this after I'd spent several months looking - I'd been caught out pontificating a couple of times before and so I acted quickly to secure the car. The very low mileage wasn't really a consideration initially, it only became one after the purchase.k did you buy such a low-milage car???
Dave Sums said:
I think people that buy cars and put them away as an investment should be banned from buying them or at least banned from these forums. These forums are for people who love cars (driving them) and sharing those experiences, not looking at them as some kind of investment that sits in the garage and removes the chance for another person to enjoy. I buy loads of 911s and I use them all as often as possible and let all my close friends use and share them and when we are done having our fun we sell them and pass them on for the next person to do the same.
At the risk of sounding a little defensive (but your post is confrontational) – I didn’t buy the car as ‘an investment’, I bought the best car I could find and then was alerted to the investment potential afterwards.I have bought numerous cars and driven and enjoyed all of them, every single one of which up to now has cost me considerable sums of money in terms of depreciation; try buying a new SLS AMG (even with a sizeable discount) and see how that turns out – I did!
pistolp said:
Having a car with such a low mileage I can see is a dilemma, but at the end of the day you can deal with that dilemma by gritting your teeth and actually enjoying it. I think that ultimately will give you more pleasure than a nominal amount more when it comes to the future value, if you come to sell it.
Agreed. And it is now my plan to do so.Dave Sums said:
I apologise if being confrontational, probably having a bad day at the office!
Anyway just drive the bloody thing:-)
No offence taken – we are all entitled to our opinions and if I didn’t want to hear what other people thought I wouldn’t have asked the question!Anyway just drive the bloody thing:-)
It has helped me work through the dilemma and I now get to enjoy the car ‘guilt free’ because the PH Porsche community say I should!
It is a car I always wanted to own after having owned 997.1 GT3 Clubsport and a 997.2 GT3 Clubsport it just seems like the natural progression… and I still think it’s the best out there (for me).
I already have trips planned to the Le Mans 24hrs (for the triumphant return of Porsche to the race - hopefully) and the Le Mans Classic – so now I know which car I’ll be going in!
pistolp said:
Grey with gold is the way forward. Might look odd if you have a red cage and belts though. Not that you couldn't change the cage colour of course.....
Doh…hadn’t thought about the cage! But as you suggest a colour change is not beyond the wit of man. Wrapped in black vinyl would work I guess, but probably a re-paint; a gold cage might be a step too far.Just thought I'd provide a short update.
Having made the decision to keep and use the car, that's exactly what I have been doing. Most recently I've been to the Le Mans 24hrs in it and will head back to France for the Le Mans Classic in the car in a couple of weeks time.
Immediately following the Classic, a group of friends and I are off down to the Alps for a week or so of driving some of the best mountain passes we can find. Then it's back to the UK via Spa to watch a friend racing in the British GT and then down to 'Ring for a touristfahren day.
Here's a couple of pictures of the car:
Le Mans (it was the only 997.2 GT3 RS I saw whilst there - which I thought was unusual):
Post-Le Mans detailing at Valet Magic in Camberley followed by a quick photo shoot by Nick Williams arranged by Robbie at Valet Magic:
The interior:
All-in-all the decision to keep it and use it was the best decision I've made - so by putting miles on it I may have notionally lost some unrealised monetary gain, but the car is epic and I just love it. If you own one use it; there is little out there that can compare.
Having made the decision to keep and use the car, that's exactly what I have been doing. Most recently I've been to the Le Mans 24hrs in it and will head back to France for the Le Mans Classic in the car in a couple of weeks time.
Immediately following the Classic, a group of friends and I are off down to the Alps for a week or so of driving some of the best mountain passes we can find. Then it's back to the UK via Spa to watch a friend racing in the British GT and then down to 'Ring for a touristfahren day.
Here's a couple of pictures of the car:
Le Mans (it was the only 997.2 GT3 RS I saw whilst there - which I thought was unusual):
Post-Le Mans detailing at Valet Magic in Camberley followed by a quick photo shoot by Nick Williams arranged by Robbie at Valet Magic:
The interior:
All-in-all the decision to keep it and use it was the best decision I've made - so by putting miles on it I may have notionally lost some unrealised monetary gain, but the car is epic and I just love it. If you own one use it; there is little out there that can compare.
), see you at Arnage, be cool to get a pic of both cars as they are v similar specSo I just thought I would provide another quick update.
Just back from the Le Mans Classic which was swiftly followed by a week of driving the best Alpine Passes we could find (myself and seven friends in all sorts of varying machinery – from a Caterham, to an M3, to a modified BMW 2002)…with a bit of a trip north to the Porsche Museum, then on to watch friends racing in the British GT at Spa and a Touristfahren day at the ‘Ring to finish off.
So the car now has 4,300 miles on it; but what a car! I certainly don’t regret the decision to drive it and if it’s fallen in value – so be it; I think I’ve had my moneys worth.
I posted up details of the latest trip on Twitter so if you fancy a few photos and brief thoughts etc check out @TheDeadPrussian for the details…
Just back from the Le Mans Classic which was swiftly followed by a week of driving the best Alpine Passes we could find (myself and seven friends in all sorts of varying machinery – from a Caterham, to an M3, to a modified BMW 2002)…with a bit of a trip north to the Porsche Museum, then on to watch friends racing in the British GT at Spa and a Touristfahren day at the ‘Ring to finish off.
So the car now has 4,300 miles on it; but what a car! I certainly don’t regret the decision to drive it and if it’s fallen in value – so be it; I think I’ve had my moneys worth.
I posted up details of the latest trip on Twitter so if you fancy a few photos and brief thoughts etc check out @TheDeadPrussian for the details…
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