997 GT3 Gen 1 Club sport - Anybody know this car ?

[Zunfolge]

First post and its the dreaded anybody know this car ..... Unforgivable and I apologies profusely and indefinitely !

I have been looking at GT3's for a long time and almost always miss out as I am too slow on the trigger. So before embarking on a painfully long journey again, does anybody know this car -there are not many clubsports around and even less for sale. Has anyone had any dealing with this dealer?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

fingers crossed

Peter Foster

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

Thank you for all the responses. The car interests me for a few reasons really.

1.)Mileage--this means I can use it for 20K and then sell with no financial loss without counting on prices rising anymore . A car with 30k+ miles now will have circa 50K on when it comes time to sell. If I was buying to keep, it would not bother me but this more an asset transfer than dream car to keep forever.....

2.)Not many club sports about and certainly very few with this mileage.

3.)As far as inspections I would go to those I trust. Its condition and accident free and then---- suspension suspension suspension on these....10k refresh comes to mind anyone?

Plenty horror stories about gt3's seen a few 'mint' NOT----

Anyone know this particular vehicle ?

Thanks Pete

[Zunfolge]

Absolutely its condition first and an open book about any previous work no matter how small. Perhaps I should have highlighted it more. A beautiful looking unregistered cat c is no good ,they exist and more so than anyone admits esp with this type of car. Track insurance policy on top of normal insurance and any off is covered and not registered !

Once the condition box is ticked ( and I expect at this price and mileage it is as it came from its loving German mother) there is suspension, engine and gearbox . A rev range report is naturally an important subject. What did we do before this data capture .... I am sure most older cars had over revs in the thousands !

After a few disappointments and missed opportunities I think the way forward is to ask of prior knowledge on this forum and then go and inspect the car for visual condition. If this checks out (shut lines, paint ,interior ect) then make the next step and have it thoroughly inspected. An inspection for me has to entail placing it on a lift and reviewing the manufacture date codes stamped on the key elements like suspension ect, remove rear/front lights to check for minor damage and remove the wheel liners to look for panel anomalies and the list goes on...more than this is not normally possible. this is over and above the normal checks

These cars are very hard to find in mint condition. Mr Rance search is proof of this. I just want to avoid an unnecessary trip . Life is busy enough

Pete

[Zunfolge]

Pete A.

I fully understand your concerns but place the shoe on the other foot ,80k cash is nothing to be sniffed at. I have not asked to strip your car, just stated that to really see any car properly a thorough inspection is required (by a third party) these cars are extremely hard to find unblemished and such an inspection does require a certain amount of investigation. I have seen 8 ( not all cs) in the last 12 months 3 where lovely but sold, 3 rather average and 2 certainly avoidable.

Just trying to avoid a long trip.

Nobody know this car ? Looks like a trip may be in order.

Peter

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

Email is such a difficult medium to use and is fraught with danger on every corner. I enjoy ready the posts but generally shy away from posting myself as would hate to be caught up in a table tennis match .

No ill feelings from me at all ever to anyone .

No screw drivers in hand for Porsche inspections from me either ! Do you mind if I bring a socket set

Lets be clear I couldn't image anything worse as a seller OMG you would like to do what !!!

What I am trying to say is that if a car checks out visually and has perfect body work all panel lines are consistent, bumpers line up perfectly, window codes match, rev check, good service history and care, brakes show no signs of abuse and no spray work-- all is well and no need for the dreaded screw driver on inspection.

But lets say there is a minor inconsistency then surely this needs to be looked into a little bit further. We are not talking about a 20k car here-- top money should be perfect and if not surely the reason should be either obvious and if not a question mark should be raised.

I have been looking for a year sadly I have seen a few and heard of a few horror stories some from Porsche themselves. In my mind the specialist dealers are going to be more thorough in an inspection and as others have said JZM,RPM,Paragon,JAZ,Fern autofarm and a few more all can perform a decent inspection.

While I am in confession mode, I have a small issue with low mileage cars having rims being redone too --- awaiting hate mail from the force !

What is the first thing that hits the kerb ? What is the second thing that takes a knock....not all offs are going to show body damage. In the old days ( I am not young anymore ) e30 bmws more than one (when rev limiters were there to limit revs and not condemn a car had an off, rear end went a little further than expected (well it wasnt going to be the front was it!). The rear hit a kerb popped the tyre and cracked the rim . A month later rear wheel bearing and then a while after that the dif was not as happy as it used to be. Now of course the dif may not be related but it cemented the fact that not all offs are going to show in body work to me.

These cars being what they are should be used as intended and as such many have had offs of various kinds...which is not a problem as long as open about all known events.

Thanks for all the comments. What a place!

Peter

[Zunfolge]

gents

The cars that I found to be avoidable were at non Porsche specialists which is why I ask the question on this forum. In fact if we go back further than a year I a went to see a 996 gt2 that was for reasonable money but when not even a meter away you could clearly see it had had major work.

There are perfect cars out there and I have seen a few at the independent specialists ( all sold in a day or 2 ).Seen one or two private nice ones as well just not ready at the time.



Scooty100 Porn is filtered on the office computers

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

Painfully aware of the market the last year. As I intend to keep the car for 2 years and then sell the price rises do not have such an impact....I think of it as asset diversification . makes me feel better anyway.

I dont see anything wrong with wanting a car of this nature inspected by a competent person. I am no expert and want to protect my interests and future sell on.

Club sports are hard to find and there are not many ...just looking at the avoidance thread on this forum is enough to reach for a pack of imodium . How many 997's club sports are there ?..how many on the avoidance thread and or known to have had work...do the math and it does not look good!!

Perhaps over cautious....

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

As always email is not the best medium.Not wanting to buy a car because it has refurbed wheels is indeed a slight over exaggeration...niot sure where that was written but it is friday afternoon
I have no problem buying a car with refurbished wheels, just nervous about it and lets face it hypothetically if a car had refurbed wheels and a respray would you not ask yourself a question ? Well if not then each to his own I suppose.

Track car not tracked ---can be found --I believe mr Rance has just such a toy They are out there. No problem buying a car with slight road rash boys -have no idea where that came from

Just wanted to know if anyone knew the car.....my personal preference for a car was no but seems to now be in debate.

Is there anything wrong with wanting a car that is in superb condition ?

does anybody know the car ?

Peter

[Zunfolge]

Now LHD is making a lot of sense and that other white one looks very interesting -but weary of non indy .

Will sleep on it and make contact with them both.

Peter

[Zunfolge]

True it might bug me. Was not referring to that car in particular just LHD in general.

Peter

[Zunfolge]

There is definitely a case for LHD.

[Zunfolge]

Gents,

Thank you for all the responses it makes for very interesting reading and is appreciated immensely.

Peter

[Zunfolge]

It has been a rather enlightening weekend -

Went to collect the wife's car from the detailers and started talking Porsche again. I see this guy once or twice a year and have used him for many . It turns out he had a white gen 1 997 Club sport in the last 6 or so months that came through his shop with a little history!

Whilst cleaning the under body (forensic cleaning he calls it) he comes across clamp marks from a chassis jig in various locations and chassis creasing. Moving forward he then removes the lights front and rear (I wont mention the tool used for the rear lights ) and finds more evidence of damage inside the light cluster and right rear arch. He says the signs were all over the car of a pretty hard hit . This bloke loves his Porches and has an encyclopaedic memory of the cars he has detailed.

Poor owner of the car was devastated, as it turns out it was sold as accident free and mint.

To make matters worse apparently a Porsche 111 point check did not reveal anything and yet it has been on a jig for straightening without question!!

The detailing guy said he sees it a few times a year with high value cars. He reckons that secondary insurance (track day cover) pays for the repair and its not logged on the cars record.
Well cant be many 997 gen 1 white club sports about. He will send me the details of the car when he has time. PM me if interested in Chassis numbers in the next 2 weeks

Work commitments have forced a trip to the Far East for 9 days which puts a stop to viewing the cars .

Peter Foster

[Zunfolge]

I fully understand and agree entirely with your comments. Which is exactly why nothing detrimental has been posted until the owner is contacted to establish what is or has happened with the car (apologies to white cs gt3 owners in the interim). If you were buying you would want to know if extra care should be taken during inspection surely ?

As a forum it is in our own interest to help members and make others aware of issues with cars aka gt3 avoidance thread. As I am looking for a car I found it rather interesting and thought I would relay the information. Of course not every 997 gt3 cs has an issue . I do wonder sometimes what the true statistic is for mint cars that have never had an accident vs cars that have had and cars that have been on the jig.
There is a reason why cup cars are half the price of road going versions. --It is expected that a cup car has had a tussle or two. I have no problem buying a car with damage as long as it is explained in detail, as light body damage is vastly different from chassis damage. I am not in the market for a gt3 that has had extensive damage for top dollar. No problem buying a cat c with fully documented build for £35--anyone? Remember the orange RS that sold recently for around the 45 mark. Looked like a decent car for that money

I will endeavour to find out what has happened to the car as I can now see that a blanket statement was possibly not the best way to describe things.

Peter Foster

[Zunfolge]

Sad to hear.