991 Turbo S...
Discussion
I haven't had my 997 Turbo S that long, and as amazing a car it is, I find myself being drawn to the new model, am weighing up options at the moment (would have to sell my car to buy) and considering arranging a test drive in the coming weeks.
The problem is there appear to be so few, (virtually none in fact) reviews/topics/posts from current or past owners on the 991 Turbo S. I've read what the mags have to say..I'm much more interested in real owners who actually bought one and drive the car daily.
Sooo...what are they like?
How do they compare to the 997.2/997 Turbo S? I know it's a slightly heavier car, but apparently further improvements to the PDK, the exhaust note is better (it even seems to have a little V8 like burble), and the performance is even more astonishing or should that be staggering! 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and mile run stock car beats stock Aventador, the 0-60 with road legal tyres in normal conditions, 2.9 seconds in independent tests is incredible
The best time for a stock car has been something like 2.7 on track 0-60, for a car that can carry four people, has a 120+ litre boot gets decent fuel economy and you can park anywhere that's not bad going
If anyone has owned one or had an extended drive I would love to hear about it..
I am growing to like the looks, it has a fair bit more road presence than the 997, lines not as clean or refined/pretty but it's a more impressive car visually and certainly looks good in the right colour, looks more muscular and aggressive on the road.
What are the must have options?
I noticed they all come with small carbon pack as standard, for me the only must have I see is the 991 S alloys vs. the standard Turbo wheels (which I don't like), this was a non cost option apparently. The panoramic sunroof is nice. Very few seem to have the reversing camera which I would like but I'm sure this can be retroffied. Clear tail lights on the 991 are hideous (great on 997), fortunately almost no owners spec this.
Prices wise- what sort of deals are there to be had on these? For a 997 Turbo S from experience- despite it being a rarer car than the 991 S 8%-10% off list price at OPC on 2012 car with two year warranty was certainly achievable, with some negotiation. 2013 991 Turbo S list between 116k-125k- a lot of cars for sale (18!!!), and they seem to take a long time to sell although this may be time of year. Is it the case that 120k for a used Turbo albeit an S is not a price point the market has taken too? I know Porsche sold plenty of cars at 142k-150k new, but that is a different market which is not price sensitive..
Just trying to get a rough handle on what cars are actually changing hands for and what discount is likely if I'm ready to buy. Feel free to PM if you don't want to discuss price on here.
The problem is there appear to be so few, (virtually none in fact) reviews/topics/posts from current or past owners on the 991 Turbo S. I've read what the mags have to say..I'm much more interested in real owners who actually bought one and drive the car daily.
Sooo...what are they like?
How do they compare to the 997.2/997 Turbo S? I know it's a slightly heavier car, but apparently further improvements to the PDK, the exhaust note is better (it even seems to have a little V8 like burble), and the performance is even more astonishing or should that be staggering! 1/4 mile, 1/2 mile and mile run stock car beats stock Aventador, the 0-60 with road legal tyres in normal conditions, 2.9 seconds in independent tests is incredible
The best time for a stock car has been something like 2.7 on track 0-60, for a car that can carry four people, has a 120+ litre boot gets decent fuel economy and you can park anywhere that's not bad goingIf anyone has owned one or had an extended drive I would love to hear about it..
I am growing to like the looks, it has a fair bit more road presence than the 997, lines not as clean or refined/pretty but it's a more impressive car visually and certainly looks good in the right colour, looks more muscular and aggressive on the road.
What are the must have options?
I noticed they all come with small carbon pack as standard, for me the only must have I see is the 991 S alloys vs. the standard Turbo wheels (which I don't like), this was a non cost option apparently. The panoramic sunroof is nice. Very few seem to have the reversing camera which I would like but I'm sure this can be retroffied. Clear tail lights on the 991 are hideous (great on 997), fortunately almost no owners spec this.
Prices wise- what sort of deals are there to be had on these? For a 997 Turbo S from experience- despite it being a rarer car than the 991 S 8%-10% off list price at OPC on 2012 car with two year warranty was certainly achievable, with some negotiation. 2013 991 Turbo S list between 116k-125k- a lot of cars for sale (18!!!), and they seem to take a long time to sell although this may be time of year. Is it the case that 120k for a used Turbo albeit an S is not a price point the market has taken too? I know Porsche sold plenty of cars at 142k-150k new, but that is a different market which is not price sensitive..
Just trying to get a rough handle on what cars are actually changing hands for and what discount is likely if I'm ready to buy. Feel free to PM if you don't want to discuss price on here.
Thanks for the replies- I know the sensible thing to do would be to keep my 997 Turbo S, low miles, high spec, low owner coupe examples are very rare and asking prices haven't really moved since last spring. Took me a good 7 months to find my car, (yes I was being very picky on spec and also wanted a car with warranty)
Just 4 997 Turbo S cars on OPC v.s. 18 for the 991 Turbo S. Does anyone have any rough idea of number produced for the 991? The S used to be a run out model of sorts, the 997 Turbo S wasn't introduced until 2010, a good 4 years into production, while the new one was launched together with the regular Turbo from the start, seems odd. I remember reading it's hard to find a 991 Turbo in some countries as vast majority went for the S (which makes sense), and OPC in the UK do indeed have more S than regular turbo for sale! Seems to rather devalue it, if it's actually the more common car...not that Porsche would care as they make more £ on the more expensive car.
I agree performance in regular fast driving would be no better and the difference is more with the even better launch control due to PDK upgrades, but then again the 997.2 in day to day driving also does not feel any slower than the 997 Turbo S, so it's not all about that for me.
Looks wise I like the 991 a lot, a more imposing and impressive looking car for sure, looks every bit a supercar in the right colour. The 997 is slightly more discreet and has more classic Porsche lines. Both look great ultimately.
Man manths time...if cost to change is under 20k I would seriously consider it- are there deals to be done on the 991 S, what sort of discount, room for negotiation is there? Would not pay 120k, would rather wait a year at that price.....is 110 or under realistic? As I mentioned there seem to be a lot cars for sale not moving.
Just 4 997 Turbo S cars on OPC v.s. 18 for the 991 Turbo S. Does anyone have any rough idea of number produced for the 991? The S used to be a run out model of sorts, the 997 Turbo S wasn't introduced until 2010, a good 4 years into production, while the new one was launched together with the regular Turbo from the start, seems odd. I remember reading it's hard to find a 991 Turbo in some countries as vast majority went for the S (which makes sense), and OPC in the UK do indeed have more S than regular turbo for sale! Seems to rather devalue it, if it's actually the more common car...not that Porsche would care as they make more £ on the more expensive car.
I agree performance in regular fast driving would be no better and the difference is more with the even better launch control due to PDK upgrades, but then again the 997.2 in day to day driving also does not feel any slower than the 997 Turbo S, so it's not all about that for me.
Looks wise I like the 991 a lot, a more imposing and impressive looking car for sure, looks every bit a supercar in the right colour. The 997 is slightly more discreet and has more classic Porsche lines. Both look great ultimately.
Man manths time...if cost to change is under 20k I would seriously consider it- are there deals to be done on the 991 S, what sort of discount, room for negotiation is there? Would not pay 120k, would rather wait a year at that price.....is 110 or under realistic? As I mentioned there seem to be a lot cars for sale not moving.
Edited by Chad_Hugo on Monday 16th March 13:41
Thanks for that- very interesting. What was the source of the rattles if you don't mind me asking?
I note the bit about not wanting to swap it for any car out there under 300k- I have to say I agree and feel very much the same about my 997 Turbo S, other than a 991 Turbo S I really can't think of anything with the power/practicality/looks/relative value for money. I've had my car for a few months now, I am still amazed by the sheer force and relentlessness of the acceleration- going from leisurely cruising speed to well into triple figures is ridiculously easy and the car just feels so assured while doing it, it's a bit of a strange sensation how stable and planted it feels at bonkers speeds, makes you question where the cars limit is. Certainly you can't reach it on our roads!!
I need a car that I can take/park anywhere, as much as I enjoyed the 458 Italia I drove in Italy, it's not something I am interested in owing or driving in the UK. Previous car was a C63 PP+ so I have had a RWD mental big V8 car recently enough. Good fun, but the Porsche is a massive step up in every way.
Will have a look at a 991 S in the coming weeks...
They probably have one more fairly sizeable drop in value, and then will stay at that price for some time I imagine. It's all relative, a very lightly used 991C4S Targa at 102k+ makes the Turbo S feel like a bargain!!
I note the bit about not wanting to swap it for any car out there under 300k- I have to say I agree and feel very much the same about my 997 Turbo S, other than a 991 Turbo S I really can't think of anything with the power/practicality/looks/relative value for money. I've had my car for a few months now, I am still amazed by the sheer force and relentlessness of the acceleration- going from leisurely cruising speed to well into triple figures is ridiculously easy and the car just feels so assured while doing it, it's a bit of a strange sensation how stable and planted it feels at bonkers speeds, makes you question where the cars limit is. Certainly you can't reach it on our roads!!
I need a car that I can take/park anywhere, as much as I enjoyed the 458 Italia I drove in Italy, it's not something I am interested in owing or driving in the UK. Previous car was a C63 PP+ so I have had a RWD mental big V8 car recently enough. Good fun, but the Porsche is a massive step up in every way.
Will have a look at a 991 S in the coming weeks...
They probably have one more fairly sizeable drop in value, and then will stay at that price for some time I imagine. It's all relative, a very lightly used 991C4S Targa at 102k+ makes the Turbo S feel like a bargain!!
Edited by Chad_Hugo on Thursday 19th March 12:05
DragonRR said:
It would be more of what wasn't the source... however::
Both rear quarter panel trim pieces, loud rattle. Fxed with a couple of microfibre cloths shoved into the each seat belt slot. One was later done properly, I haven't had chance to get the other one done and probably won't bother.
Passenger side door rattle, took 3 attempts and it still comes back a little on rough roads.
Rear seat hinge in middle, sort of plasticky ticking noise
Rear seat child ISO fixing plastic velcro whatsits. Weird rattle. I fixed this myself with some felt.
Wiring loom behind rear seats.
Sunroof rattles - apparently a known problem caused by dealers cleaning out the oil from the seals. It doesn't really make sense that the noise would appear as a rattle but it does. Fixable with a special oil on the seals. It was done a couple of times by the dealer and then I've done it myself twice since. It may now be oiled enough to last.
Sunroof blind - still does light rattling sometimes, not a big issue.
Driver and passenger seat back lever, constant but quiet rattle. They are now fixed but quite stiff in use.
Trim next to the drivers side passenger seat belt slot.
Glove box rattle - I actually think this was fixed with a Porsche business card! You can just see the edge of something.
Glove box cup holder drop down trim hinge. Surprisingly loud rattle once it started. Fixed myself with some 3 in 1 oil.
Center console intermittent rattle. No idea how they fixed this or managed to find it.
So not many
I would suggest you test drive one, stick it in Sport Plus and see what you think.
Thanks for that, very interesting and a little surprising.Both rear quarter panel trim pieces, loud rattle. Fxed with a couple of microfibre cloths shoved into the each seat belt slot. One was later done properly, I haven't had chance to get the other one done and probably won't bother.
Passenger side door rattle, took 3 attempts and it still comes back a little on rough roads.
Rear seat hinge in middle, sort of plasticky ticking noise
Rear seat child ISO fixing plastic velcro whatsits. Weird rattle. I fixed this myself with some felt.
Wiring loom behind rear seats.
Sunroof rattles - apparently a known problem caused by dealers cleaning out the oil from the seals. It doesn't really make sense that the noise would appear as a rattle but it does. Fixable with a special oil on the seals. It was done a couple of times by the dealer and then I've done it myself twice since. It may now be oiled enough to last.
Sunroof blind - still does light rattling sometimes, not a big issue.
Driver and passenger seat back lever, constant but quiet rattle. They are now fixed but quite stiff in use.
Trim next to the drivers side passenger seat belt slot.
Glove box rattle - I actually think this was fixed with a Porsche business card! You can just see the edge of something.
Glove box cup holder drop down trim hinge. Surprisingly loud rattle once it started. Fixed myself with some 3 in 1 oil.
Center console intermittent rattle. No idea how they fixed this or managed to find it.
So not many
I would suggest you test drive one, stick it in Sport Plus and see what you think.
Edited by DragonRR on Thursday 19th March 18:10
I have not had any noticeable or persistent rattles in my 997 Turbo S, maybe I have just been lucky? To be honest, none of the three 997 cars I tried (1 x gen 2 Turbo, 1 x gen 2 Turbo S and 1 x 997 gen 1 Turbo) had any rattles that I picked up on.
Hope that what you haven't resolved already gets sorted under warranty, as it would irritate me to have that many rattles and little niggles.
I expect the difference between 991 and 997 S would be felt mainly via launch control due to PDK improvements and on track, fast b road driving and motorway use I don't expect there to be anything in it...will try to drive a 991 and see what it's like.
MrTickle said:
Without knowing the full specifics of spec etc. it is tricky to be too accurate - but I would imagine you would be nearer £40K for a CTC than £20K, which may just rule it out for you at the moment anyway?
You may well be right. Specs/miles are broadly the same the only option of important to me is the Turbo S centre lock wheels. I'd like the reversing camera but virtually no cars have it. I think unless it is an unusual colour which can command a fairly big premium I think the deal on a 2013 car would have almost nothing to do with spec and everything to do with-OPC in question
-sales that month/quarter
-time of year
-number of months they have had the car and level of interest
-on the basis of the first two- how keen/flexible they are
Cost to change looks like it would be 30k+. If there is reasonable discount on list price however that could come down to just over 20k. That assumed same type of discount as on a 997 Turbo S last year, although that was December. I would never even entertain it at 40k. If there isn't a good deal to be had I can always revisit in December/Jan. I'm happy with my current car so not in a hurry to change.
20k miles in a 991 TTS is quite a bit compared to most cars for sale, seems like due to the cost many people are not using them as daily drivers which is a shame- so you would probably know the car very well..
Would be interested in hearing your opinion on how it fares compared to the 997, does it generally feel faster other than launch control, is the weight difference noticeable, is it more/less refined, and less/more fun to drive?
Do you see the 991 TTS taking a big hit depreciation wise. Hard to say on that one I suppose but going by prices for new 991 Carrera's and what the next Turbo S will cost, seems like in 4-5 years the price difference 991 TTS vs. new model will be massive even based on todays price, so perhaps it will hold up quite well?
Would be interested in hearing your opinion on how it fares compared to the 997, does it generally feel faster other than launch control, is the weight difference noticeable, is it more/less refined, and less/more fun to drive?
Do you see the 991 TTS taking a big hit depreciation wise. Hard to say on that one I suppose but going by prices for new 991 Carrera's and what the next Turbo S will cost, seems like in 4-5 years the price difference 991 TTS vs. new model will be massive even based on todays price, so perhaps it will hold up quite well?
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