991 GT3 Prices - 50 cars available!
Discussion
Across Pistonheads, OPC website and A***trader, excluding duplicates and wanted adverts, we now have 50 (yes, F I F T Y) cars available.
Cheapest car now at 145k with 2000 miles, 1 owner.
Can anyone recall any other Porsche model or even any other marque where there has been this magnitude of supply of a limited edition run car?
Is this the beginning of the end of the new Porsche car speculator? GT4s / 991 RS ?
Cheapest car now at 145k with 2000 miles, 1 owner.
Can anyone recall any other Porsche model or even any other marque where there has been this magnitude of supply of a limited edition run car?
Is this the beginning of the end of the new Porsche car speculator? GT4s / 991 RS ?
terryb said:
Who knows what will happen...
What we do know is that a fair few of the cars for sale are SOR including JZM, 911 Sport and a number at OPCs too. Why not give it a try to sell at a healthy premium.
What is true is that they are fantastic cars and definitely worth a lot more than their original RRPs given their competition in the marketplace.
Once RS road tests get published, I wouldn't be surprised if GT3s are snapped up as they will be the closest thing to an RS and also available, which of course an RS will not be...
JZM I think owns 2 of his cars, the other 3 are SOR. I wouldn't be surprised therefore if the 50 or so cars on the market, 40% were owned by dealers, and 60% are SOR. Now, if you were JZM or another dealer with stock you owned, you would be happy to take on SOR cars at higher prices as it makes your own cars look better value. You can probably guess which cars they will also try to move first, hence I think you might get better deals on these than SOR cars. Anyone looking to buy one, be aware that trade prices are now well under 140k for an average specced GT3. Dealers read forums like these and they religiously track the market, and for them its too a big risk to be outright purchasing now, as this market is like catching a falling knife. With 50 cars on the market looking to find new homes, and many more coming to the market, it is very likely that prices will probably fall more than people think, in my opinion. There will be forced sellers, especially those who are about to get delivery of an RS, as many can't afford to hold or want to own both GT3 and RS variants. What we do know is that a fair few of the cars for sale are SOR including JZM, 911 Sport and a number at OPCs too. Why not give it a try to sell at a healthy premium.
What is true is that they are fantastic cars and definitely worth a lot more than their original RRPs given their competition in the marketplace.
Once RS road tests get published, I wouldn't be surprised if GT3s are snapped up as they will be the closest thing to an RS and also available, which of course an RS will not be...
Edited by ThirtySomething on Saturday 16th May 23:24
Bieldside said:
Sadly this is becoming very boring
As someone who is lucky enough to have one bought new with my spec I don't care what the prices are doing
In some ways I'm pleased as it makes me more relaxed about driving it !
If you don't own one don't worry
If you do own one why would you sell. ? What else is there apart from the GT3 RS I assume
This thread is unashamedly about prices. If its boring to you, and to other 991 GT3 owners, then respectfully there is no need to post or read if it upsets you. As someone who is lucky enough to have one bought new with my spec I don't care what the prices are doing
In some ways I'm pleased as it makes me more relaxed about driving it !
If you don't own one don't worry
If you do own one why would you sell. ? What else is there apart from the GT3 RS I assume
If you own one why would you sell you ask? That is partly the question I am asking ... and why are 50 people selling?
Is this the end of the Porsche speculator? Will the GT4 and 991 RS ultimately follow in similar manner?
DT398 said:
Mermaid said:
This ^
& if you already have nice cars, you stand a good chance of securing a car. The total market ,sans speculators , is not that big - prior versions tell you that. And it is a competitive market.
Further Porsche will make more cars available for the UK market if deemed necessary.
We had far more than 132 GT3's, more RS's than rumoured initially and the same with GT4's.
Build a good relation with your dealer .
^this& if you already have nice cars, you stand a good chance of securing a car. The total market ,sans speculators , is not that big - prior versions tell you that. And it is a competitive market.
Further Porsche will make more cars available for the UK market if deemed necessary.
We had far more than 132 GT3's, more RS's than rumoured initially and the same with GT4's.
Build a good relation with your dealer .
Seems there are around 300 991 Gt3 in the UK.
I don't buy the argument that the RS will drag the 991 up when it arrives. We already know it's coming. We already know it's limited in numbers. We already know it's going to be spectacular, so we already know the 991 is the next best thing. I and a lot of others already know the premium that the RS is changing hands for. Who's suddenly going to rush for a 991 Gt3 on the back of a review of the RS? There was so much hype surrounding the arrival of the 991 GT3 pretty much everyone who wanted one has now either got one or had one. We were told it was seven times over-sold about a year ago, where have all those people gone?
In addition, how many speculators are in for the 991 RS? 918 owners who got first digs? OPC friends ? New owners to the marque who have seen prices go stratospheric ? I have no doubt the first cars will go for a premium on the open market, but that premium I think will be lower than people think, and the premium will diminish very quickly as more come to the market, and Porsche are going to produce these in much bigger numbers than first indicated.
av185 said:
It will certainly be interesting to see what the first 'second hand' 991 GT3 RS sell for and the relative supply of these. The level of the initial premium could well have a bearing on GT3 prices as the 'next best thing'. So would the RS at a not unreasonable say c £200k-£220k (comparing to the Speciale) make the GT3 seem expensive at say c £150k-£165k. Probably not.
Meantime the 'next best thing' pricewise to the 991 GT3...... the 997 GT3, Cayman GT4 and to a lesser extent the 991 GTS all at c £100k are likely to prevent the 991 GT3 from slipping to levels predicted by (and hoped for) by some.
Next best things ...Meantime the 'next best thing' pricewise to the 991 GT3...... the 997 GT3, Cayman GT4 and to a lesser extent the 991 GTS all at c £100k are likely to prevent the 991 GT3 from slipping to levels predicted by (and hoped for) by some.
LHD 991 GTs are £100k .... !
LHD Speciale are starting from £165k.
New slots appearing on the continent for LHD 991 RS at list!
New Baby McLaren due at £130k.
New Mercedes AMG GT circa £130k.
Rumoured GT4 RS ....
Ultimately, a lot of people were only buying 991 GT3s as prices were going up. It was a safe bet, with very limited downside. Due to demand, Porsche massively increased supply from 132 cars to near 300, and a lot of cars found homes at speculators. Now there is an oversupply of cars on the market as the speculators want out. Speculators can afford to sell all the way down to list, as they have not lost anything but their pride at that level. Further, I don't think the UK market is big enough to support these specialist cars and the new models arriving. At over £150k, these cars don't get driven in the way they were designed to, as proven by the mileages of most of the cars on offer.
sidicks said:
Cheib said:
Given the GT3's intended use...it matters less than almost any other Porsche whether it's LHD or RHD. At a 70% premium to a LHD 991 GT3 they looked very expensive....at a premium to a LHD 991 GT3RS it just seemed over priced IMHO. That and the fact the marked for 997 GT3's, 993 Turbo's etc appeared to have found their level over the last six months probably explians the current glut of cars
Isn't the intended use for a GT3 likely to be primarily road use with some track use, so that RHD is likely to be important, whereas the intended use for a GT3 RS is likely to be primarily track use with some road use and hence RHD is likely to be much less important? 
Not surprising at all, considering we are in peak season (summer is in full swing) and how few have actually sold over the past month. I am pretty confident more are due to market as well ... (20 now on OPC!)
.... and trade bids on these have disappeared now that speculators have gone awol.
.... and trade bids on these have disappeared now that speculators have gone awol.
Edited by ThirtySomething on Wednesday 27th May 22:20
Scooty100 said:
The 991 GT3 mkt will drag down all other GT3 classes In the same way it dragged it all up.
People forget that bit
I actually agree with that. Have seen 997.2 RS now sticking around at dealers at 160k and not selling.People forget that bit
And to my original question, how long will it take for the GT4 and 991 RS to follow ? I'm sure those lucky to get early deliveries will want to flip pretty quickly seeing what has happened to the 991GT3. I am also hearing on various forums that Porsche are increasing production, as more people are slowly being offered build slots. In fact someone has been very recently offered a 991GT3 slot !!! .... must be one of the last few but appears production has not officially ceased.
robgt3 said:
Looking at the cars now for sale currently there are 19 at OPC's. Many of those being offered on Autotrader are speculator cars having had multiple owners. If I was looking to source one I would stick with the main dealer ones. One previous owner and full Porsche UK back up would be worth a lot in the event of a problem and for when the time came to sell. Being told to take back to where it came from should an issue develop would not sit well when you have spent £150,000 plus. Also trying to command a high price in the future and explaining away 6 or 7 owners could prove a little difficult. I am very aware that with the RS OPC's are being very particular where the car goes.
Just in the name of research I contacted a Porsche dealer to enquire about a GT3 that they were selling at a high level price. After much haggling I managed a very low amount of discount. The car and the asking price was not perceived to be a problem. I was also told that a memo is circulating which states that the factory may not be able to fulfil all outstanding RS orders. So to those people seeking to sell their GT3's on the basis that they are to get an RS in the future beware ! The situation could be no RS and no GT3!
LOL. You're obviously not very good at haggling. You should have turned the question in the "name of research" and asked the OPC how much he would give you for your one owner 991GT3 !! Just in the name of research I contacted a Porsche dealer to enquire about a GT3 that they were selling at a high level price. After much haggling I managed a very low amount of discount. The car and the asking price was not perceived to be a problem. I was also told that a memo is circulating which states that the factory may not be able to fulfil all outstanding RS orders. So to those people seeking to sell their GT3's on the basis that they are to get an RS in the future beware ! The situation could be no RS and no GT3!
Furthermore, that OPC is telling you porkies .... there is no such memo. In fact its pretty much the opposite, rumors of increased production. And as I mentioned already, 991GT3 are still being delivered !
One more thing, 20 on OPC now, not 19 !
Edited by ThirtySomething on Friday 29th May 12:14
5517 said:
ThirtySomething said:
And as I mentioned already, 991GT3 are still being delivered !
UK RHD cars are still being delivered?God knows what the total production numbers are but one thing is for sure, they are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what everyone thought. It seems Porsche filled their pockets with the speculators and this is what is causing the supply on the 2nd hand market.
drmark said:
ThirtySomething said:
Y E S ! Heard a chap on another forum who missed out initially got a call from his OPC this month saying they could now get him one to his own specification.
God knows what the total production numbers are but one thing is for sure, they are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what everyone thought. It seems Porsche filled their pockets with the speculators and this is what is causing the supply on the 2nd hand market.
Are you sure? "Hearing" a "chap" on "another forum" is very different from it being fact.God knows what the total production numbers are but one thing is for sure, they are SIGNIFICANTLY higher than what everyone thought. It seems Porsche filled their pockets with the speculators and this is what is causing the supply on the 2nd hand market.
ks.LaSource said:
Fl0pp3r said:
PorscheGT4 said:
always has been for GT3
a few come up for sale Jan onwards and you can always buy till about May, then it's normally none for sale in the summer, then a few start to come up end Sept, hence a lot have 7 or 8 owners,
GT3 is VERY seasonal I have been following these for about 10 years. 996 have calmed down sale wise as more and more find long term owners, and this year people are cashing in on the big prices esp 997 owners, 997.2 cars have always been rare to buy at any point but very few for sale now and imo the car to have out of them all looking at prices and age.
+1 - if you talk to most Porsche Indy's, they'll tell you this has traditionally been the case.a few come up for sale Jan onwards and you can always buy till about May, then it's normally none for sale in the summer, then a few start to come up end Sept, hence a lot have 7 or 8 owners,
GT3 is VERY seasonal I have been following these for about 10 years. 996 have calmed down sale wise as more and more find long term owners, and this year people are cashing in on the big prices esp 997 owners, 997.2 cars have always been rare to buy at any point but very few for sale now and imo the car to have out of them all looking at prices and age.
Looks like this year is a little different tho'!
Edited by ThirtySomething on Friday 29th May 21:39
Let's take this scenario ....
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
At end of summer, 991GT3 prices have steadily come down as supply stays constant (few sell on the way down, but are replaced with even more cars). Let's say prices move down to the average list price of 115k (I know ... shock horror, but perfectly feasible, and where they are in Europe). Let us also assume there are still 50 or so cars on the market. Supply well exceeds demand. Who is going to buy even at these levels? Its a depreciating asset. Speculators are not interested. Enthusiasts? What enthusiasts! Even most enthusiasts have become speculators, hence why they are so vocal on here. Thus, I think prices could actually go below list. This is market that is akin to catching a falling knife. Prices will dip below perceived fair value before they final reach a foothold, and then will slowly rise again. This is a typical pattern.
The 991GT3 fallout will have an impact across the 996/997/991 GT3/RS range and maybe even to GT4. I do agree that 996/997 will probably be less affected, and I do not envisage these to go back to pre 2012 prices, but 15-25% correction is not unfeasible. 991RS, ... I don't see these going to list but premium will diminish.
RSVP911 said:
Back from my morning sprint - it is an awesome machine - I am very lucky to have one and after watching the EVO RS video am very excited about getting one of those too. Just for the record though, I. Not moaning about prices - as you say what a prospect to own the best car I have ever driven ( better than a 458 IMHO) for what will be roughly 2 years and to be able to sell it for something between a little under list / or a big bit over list - I have no idea , but the prospect of anywhere along that line is amazing to me and will certainly be the first time I've ever owned a car for either so little or as an appreciating asset and as such , I really am not moaning as that would be really crass - all I was saying was this constant obsessing about price is really boring as we should all be talking about driving - I also realise that this is a thread about values and as such I have no right to moan - I was just venting I guess as it's such a shame that everyone is obsessing about the car for all the wrong reasons .
The best news though is you have finally said that you will be buying one - and I'm not being smug by pointing this out , but I genuinely think that's great as you will love it - it's the most amazing thing and I believe that every man (or woman) who loves cars should get to experience one at some point - happy driving
But is obsession about prices really boring? Or are posts about driving more boring? The best news though is you have finally said that you will be buying one - and I'm not being smug by pointing this out , but I genuinely think that's great as you will love it - it's the most amazing thing and I believe that every man (or woman) who loves cars should get to experience one at some point - happy driving
Edited by RSVP911 on Saturday 30th May 11:01
Personally, I find as another poster stated here, talk about prices (arguments both for and against) very interesting and quite amusing at times. It doesn't mean that I don't go out in my own car and have fun. But what has happened to the UK market seems very unique. The British have historically obsessed about house prices for example, and now that national obsession seems to be moving to cars. Notice how many more posts and retorts there are here with regards to prices than any other discussion!
Purchasing cars has become "Rentier Capitalism" .... from wiki: Marxist term currently used to describe the belief in economic practices of parasitic monopolization of access to any (physical, financial, intellectual, etc.) kind of property, and gaining significant amounts of profit without contribution to society.
Ultimately, that means cars are no longer about driving, which probably is sad for the true enthusiast, as many enthusiasts get priced out. Only when the bubble bursts and cars do go back to depreciating as they used to do will the topic change back to driving.
Its unfortunate that the car market is unregulated. With boom in prices, market manipulation is sadly rife in this industry.
Example, I met a reputable dealer not long ago who offered to sell my car on SOR. Market wasn't as strong as he stated, and the car sat in showroom for a few months.
Ended up taking the car back, and he posted it as sold on his website.
PH rules prevent me from naming and shaming.
Example, I met a reputable dealer not long ago who offered to sell my car on SOR. Market wasn't as strong as he stated, and the car sat in showroom for a few months.
Ended up taking the car back, and he posted it as sold on his website.
PH rules prevent me from naming and shaming.
Scooty100 said:
That behaviour isn't unusual or right but others do much worse . This stuff gets around under the radar very effectively
Exactly. Look I know of even prestigious main dealers who manipulate the market, names you would not believe in a million years! Its rife. On top of that we have a couple of very well known individuals on PH who were very prominent on ramping up prices and telling people they had offers on their cars and reporting other sales which were just simply ** incredulous **. There is a lot of money at stake, and when there is money at stake .... well, lets just say certain people have no scruples. Integrity ... no such thing.As I said, THE TEST is to ask how much the dealer will buy your car from you. PH sales data is just nonsense. And Sold ... definitely, definitely does not always mean Sold!
Edited by ThirtySomething on Saturday 30th May 21:31
Edited by ThirtySomething on Saturday 30th May 21:43
If anyone can't wait and is looking to buy a 991 GT3, then this dealer car I think is best value car on market. Its been reduced by 20k now over the last few weeks.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Very high spec car, Clubsport, with PCCB, Lift, Dynamic lights, 1 owner, low miles etc.
This is approx. 20k over list. It also shows where the market really is, and means trade bids are now AT BEST 10k over list.
However, with 50+ cars still to sell, these are clearly still heading lower and will be trading at or below list by end of summer, IMHO.
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Very high spec car, Clubsport, with PCCB, Lift, Dynamic lights, 1 owner, low miles etc.
This is approx. 20k over list. It also shows where the market really is, and means trade bids are now AT BEST 10k over list.
However, with 50+ cars still to sell, these are clearly still heading lower and will be trading at or below list by end of summer, IMHO.
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