The best time to buy a Porsche 997 for £20k ...NOW
Discussion
So i have been looking at buying a 997 for the past year or two, I kind of have a rule that £20k should buy you a decent porsche 911 whatever the model if you get your timing right, and surely the time for a 997 purchase is now !
Last year you need £25k to get a decent 997, but now i have bought one and there are a fair few around for £20k, sure not easy to find good ones and because of the Porsche leased finance scheme for this model, never has there been more used and abused young 911's and then theres the engine issues, but if you look around a nice fully inspected and carefully owned one can be had for £20kish
And surely given how much people love this shape and the fact that it still kind of feels like a proper 911, i.e. no LED's - whats that about? and i even noticed the new 911 have stop/start in traffic, a 911 with stop/start what is going onnn. the values got to go up in a while, i recon a few years for the abused ones to die and the good ones to reduce in number and prices will stabilise.
After two weeks of owning it and thinking any second the engine will blow up due to all the internet stuff, i am not more relaxed and it's a fab car, feels similar to my last 993 in some ways which is nice.......
Last year you need £25k to get a decent 997, but now i have bought one and there are a fair few around for £20k, sure not easy to find good ones and because of the Porsche leased finance scheme for this model, never has there been more used and abused young 911's and then theres the engine issues, but if you look around a nice fully inspected and carefully owned one can be had for £20kish
And surely given how much people love this shape and the fact that it still kind of feels like a proper 911, i.e. no LED's - whats that about? and i even noticed the new 911 have stop/start in traffic, a 911 with stop/start what is going onnn. the values got to go up in a while, i recon a few years for the abused ones to die and the good ones to reduce in number and prices will stabilise.
After two weeks of owning it and thinking any second the engine will blow up due to all the internet stuff, i am not more relaxed and it's a fab car, feels similar to my last 993 in some ways which is nice.......
I think a lot of people believe a lot of things they read, firstly if you are going to keep any 911 for any length of time and do any amount of mile you will probably have to do something to the engine, my 3.2 it was values I think, my 964 top end rebuild, so yes 997 engines can go but if you are going to keep a high performance car for a good while engine expense is probably on the cards......
A 996 turbo instead, yes great car, shame about the headlights but great car, BUT you think you will save money because no engine rebuild....... Really ....really... You can spend £10k on a turbo without even thinking about the engine.
A gen 2 for a little over £30 makes more sense, but from the ones I drove they seemed very much like new cars, for me the gen 1 seemed much more like a 911 should be, only shuttle differences but LED's etc do make a difference......but then my option B was a 996 3.4 with the proper yellow lights around £10k that again has got to be a bargain !!!
A 996 turbo instead, yes great car, shame about the headlights but great car, BUT you think you will save money because no engine rebuild....... Really ....really... You can spend £10k on a turbo without even thinking about the engine.
A gen 2 for a little over £30 makes more sense, but from the ones I drove they seemed very much like new cars, for me the gen 1 seemed much more like a 911 should be, only shuttle differences but LED's etc do make a difference......but then my option B was a 996 3.4 with the proper yellow lights around £10k that again has got to be a bargain !!!
Love the risk comparisons so basically your much better off buying a 996 than a 997 even if you really want one because the 997 is more likely to be expensive when the bore score's compared to a lunched ims bearing.
I happen to like 996 as well but probably do prefer 997's and as far as going for a 996 instead just because the engine repair is cheaper when it blows up sounds nonsense.
There has always been a risk with getting a big repair bill with a 911, what about SC and there engine studs breaking and so on.....
Surely you should buy the car you like and except high performance cars sometimes cost high performance money to repair... The only difference with later 911's is that there have been engine problems early on in there life which is different, normally it was 60k plus miles, but is that better, does that mean 70k + cars are okay?? Who knows
I happen to like 996 as well but probably do prefer 997's and as far as going for a 996 instead just because the engine repair is cheaper when it blows up sounds nonsense.
There has always been a risk with getting a big repair bill with a 911, what about SC and there engine studs breaking and so on.....
Surely you should buy the car you like and except high performance cars sometimes cost high performance money to repair... The only difference with later 911's is that there have been engine problems early on in there life which is different, normally it was 60k plus miles, but is that better, does that mean 70k + cars are okay?? Who knows
So I think three pages on we are sorted, but just one last thing on engine failure and timing timing.
As mentioned before the difference with the air cooled and water cooled failures is when they have happened in life, old 911 needed engine work at 80, 90 or in the case of 964 60k miles which people seem.As acceptable ish but the latest ims, bore scoring etc has generally happened to young engines 30 etc miles, some 60 but I never heard of an ims issue or bore scoring at 100k.
With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
As mentioned before the difference with the air cooled and water cooled failures is when they have happened in life, old 911 needed engine work at 80, 90 or in the case of 964 60k miles which people seem.As acceptable ish but the latest ims, bore scoring etc has generally happened to young engines 30 etc miles, some 60 but I never heard of an ims issue or bore scoring at 100k.
With 996's ims issues everybody thought all 996 would fail at 100k miles but they haven't haven't, the ones that are okay seem always 100k ++ okay so maybe the same goes for borescoring.....time will tell
Fl0pp3r said:
+1 Agree it is far more a question of to what degree - rather than IF - these M97 units have at least some scoring.
I believe Hartech's various fixes do address this issue comprehensively so it's a no-brainer imho.
......ermmI believe Hartech's various fixes do address this issue comprehensively so it's a no-brainer imho.
The latest issue is always the biggest...rms was a terrible issue with 996 as was their cylinder issues, then came ims, and so on....
Air cooled engines do tend not to fail early in life but if you want your 3.2 to be producing top bhp 100k plus a rebuild will not be too far away. Let's see how long these 997.1 engines last but my guessing is give it 5 years time and the issues will not really be discussed, the problem cars fixed and the other fall by the wayside...
As I understand it there are two types if ims bearings on a 997.1, the early cars have the smaller one which is easier to change and cheaper,whilst the older ones after 2006 ish have the bigger better one which is very difficult to change. They say the bigger one is better, either way failure rate as I understand it is pretty small on 997.1.
The bigger issue is bore scoring.... But that seems a complicated story, I personally think 'generally' it's down to how the cars are looked after, but not necessarily how much they are driven hard but how much they are floored when cold early down the rpm range, that's why tips suffer and why the 3.8 suffers as it has such a lot of torque lower down the rpm range... But that's just my opinion, but from a year if looking at cars adds (random survey) All the cars listed with engine rebuilds were tips bar one manual.
The bigger issue is bore scoring.... But that seems a complicated story, I personally think 'generally' it's down to how the cars are looked after, but not necessarily how much they are driven hard but how much they are floored when cold early down the rpm range, that's why tips suffer and why the 3.8 suffers as it has such a lot of torque lower down the rpm range... But that's just my opinion, but from a year if looking at cars adds (random survey) All the cars listed with engine rebuilds were tips bar one manual.
What a lot of non-sense, i think chosing any 10 year old Porsche based on whether it is a 3.6 or 3.8s or 996 v 997.1 based on possible failure rates of engines is absolutely nonsense. A 10 year old Porsche needs to be bought on condition, history and so on. How common Engine failure is nobody really knows but it would seem water cooled Porsche's until 997.2 potentially can suffer fairly serious engine failure.
So a few questions, would you buy a 997.1 MY2005 that had been serviced every year by indy or Porsche OR a 996 MY 2003 that had been serviced with a couple of 3 year gaps? it's all about condition not the 0.0001% more chance of a 997.1 engine going bang over a 996 engine etc etc.....
So a few questions, would you buy a 997.1 MY2005 that had been serviced every year by indy or Porsche OR a 996 MY 2003 that had been serviced with a couple of 3 year gaps? it's all about condition not the 0.0001% more chance of a 997.1 engine going bang over a 996 engine etc etc.....
So basically you are saying buy a 99 996, ermm interesting, but then probably the Rms will go a couple of times in the same amount if years, maybe the Ims will be okay but not for sure so you might have a complete engine failure, then there the suspension that will probably need refreshing, but sure a 99 996 is a far safer bet than a later 996 or 997.1 Or what you could do is just buy a decent car on condition.......
anonymous said:
[redacted]
.......... i think you are missing out £20k for a top car that does'nt feel too unlike the earlier 993, does'nt have the modern touches like LED lights and touch screen control of the gen 2; would be better if the engine was more robust but a very pretty car in C2S form and even if the very worse came to the worse you could get the engine done for £10k and have a very nice personalised car with new engine............if you look around the problem is not the engine the problem is finding a good one that has not been abused, they dont wear that well in the wrong hands and with all the porsche finance leased cars 80% of the cars i viewed had worn interiors slightly random services etc etc anonymous said:
[redacted]
.......... i think you are missing out £20k for a top car that does'nt feel too unlike the earlier 993, does'nt have the modern touches like LED lights and touch screen control of the gen 2; would be better if the engine was more robust but a very pretty car in C2S form and even if the very worse came to the worse you could get the engine done for £10k and have a very nice personalised car with new engine............if you look around the problem is not the engine the problem is finding a good one that has not been abused, they dont wear that well in the wrong hands and with all the porsche finance leased cars 80% of the cars i viewed had worn interiors slightly random services etc etc L
rubystone said:
So early 996s...'98-99...are good news?...time to buy another one then...
Oh yes definitely, of course the very early first water cooled engines Porsche made are the most reliable and strictly don't suffer ims issues, of course they may have cylinder issues and the RMS will leak like a paper boat but seek comfort in the knowledge that bore scoring will not be an issue...........could it be ....and just a little thought ....that people always think the latest problems are the biggest.....and with time perspective comes and more knowledge of fixes.... Remember 964 engines and all the terrible problems, now apparently all air cooled engines are perfect for 200++++ k miles.... Don't remember my 3.2 or 964 being soooooYou look back over time, porsche problems at time of early production, like engine etc etc don't put people off for long as cars get older people either think issues have been sorted or the remaining cars are fine. The things that helps 997.1 prices are that they really are very nice cars. Imo they feel enough like an older 911 but look great, the only thing I think is that you need to take care of them, thermostat radiator for engine and get one with interior still in good condition, some even with less than 50k on them have shot leather.....
Compare 997.1 to 997,2 especially for a spec'ed car and the 997.1 is great value probably even if you throw in a rebuild
Compare 997.1 to 997,2 especially for a spec'ed car and the 997.1 is great value probably even if you throw in a rebuild
Had a 3.2, 964 and 993, 997.1 isn't the same but in my opinion much more similar than a 997.2 or newer ones.
I know the 997.1 is the devil on this site but actually a good one with work done and bores checked is a very nice proposition, although if a wanted a daily drive I would have a 997.2 or probably a Cayman. And sorry but 964 wAs not a great car, a pain to do anything on, my 3.2 was far better and the 993 even better but imo the 964 was a very pretty car and the best looking, and with time and classic status that becomes more important.............let's see.....
I know the 997.1 is the devil on this site but actually a good one with work done and bores checked is a very nice proposition, although if a wanted a daily drive I would have a 997.2 or probably a Cayman. And sorry but 964 wAs not a great car, a pain to do anything on, my 3.2 was far better and the 993 even better but imo the 964 was a very pretty car and the best looking, and with time and classic status that becomes more important.............let's see.....
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