Alternatives To The 991 Turbo S??

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This may seem like a strange question but please bear with me.

As you may have seen below, i've always lusted after a 911 Turbo or Turbo S & next year the planets should align & allow me the opportunity to finally acquire one & scratch that long term itch. Still a few things to decide on & boxes to tick, but i'm close enough that i hope to press the button & order a car in the Spring for delivery Spring 2017 when my current F10 M5 will be up for replacement.

My question is this, what other cars sit in this price bracket with enough similarity to warrant a look & the reason for asking is this purchase is around 100% more in value than any i've made to date, so it would be perhaps foolish of me to not dip my toe in to look at alternatives & thus be confident if i do buy a Turbo/S that i've made the right choice. This also means i'm far from in the know as to the possible expanse of alternatives in this price bracket as say i would be when comparing my current car.

Must haves are the ability in rare cases to sit a child in the back seats, also it has to have some level of practicality in that it can be driven on longer journeys in comfort, even luxury. Best description i can provide is a true Sports car version of say the current M5 so it can do all things well, but clearly a few far better than an M5. I would also be tracking the car around 5-6 days a year.

Totally out of my depth of knowledge currently on what this market offers, other than say the Huracan (no rear seats), new R8 V10 Plus (again no rear seating), is the McLaren 570s in this price bracket & i'd also assume like the Lambo & R8 it has no rear seats. Nothing in the Ferrari stable at this price i don't think offers rear seats & i'm sure any new Ferrari would be considerably more than the Turbo S?

Anything obvious i'm missing? Thanks in advance.

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Hobo said:

A few suggestions;

- Audi RS6 (new at around 85k)
- Bentley Continental GT (new or nearly new at around 140k)
- Aston Martin DBS (2012 for around 100k)
- Ferrari California (nearly new at around 150k)
- Maserati Granturismo MC Stradale (nearly new around 100k)

For me, the heart would say Maserati (JCT Leeds have a nice one in stock), but head would probably say still with your original choice of 991 Turbo or Audi RS6.

Thanks. The Audi would be a sideways move from my M5 & certainly no Sports Car given it's only available as a Hearse.

Bentley again would top trump the luxury card but is probably real world less Sports Car like than what i'm currently driving as i'm sure they're about 1/2 ton heavier.

Didn't consider Aston but wouldn't want to purchase a 4-5yr old example & i guess no certainly as to what/when the DB9 replacement is due & what the cost will be?

Drove a Maserati Quattroporte (had some other letters after the name) round Milbrook a few years back & head to head with the Bentley Flying Spur, the Bentley killed it in all but aural output (which shocked the hell out of me). As such since that experience i've not considered another look at Maserati.

Will look online as the Cali as hadn't considered that. A friend bought one last year & raves about it. It's a tin top soft top isn't it?

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OldBob said:

Panamera turbo s - ~135K new?

Really quite lively to drive too - even on track

Would want the Sports Car aspect & i'd hazard a guess the Panamera is at least as heavy if not heavier than the M5. Good call though but i could only be drawn to the 991 if i was considering any Porsche.

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Carl_Manchester said:

Macan+boxster

That's not a bad shout, but wanting the package in one car.

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MDL111 said:

Used FF
Edit: new model/facelift due to be shown in next month, so prices cshoulddrop further

Didn't even cross my mind so will go t'internet surfing now.

Off to see Bolton's 991 Gen II Turbo S later this morning.

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leeGT2 said:

Nissan GTR Nismo... It has the rear seats, one of the quickest cars of 2015 round the ring and very rare so should retain value whereby Turbo S risks depreciating quite heavily in its first few years.

Had an R35 (SVM 650r) & can't think of that, even the Nismo variant) coming close to offering what the 991 Turbo S would. Also i'd expect to be sectioned if i spent £115k on a Nissan. I'd hazard a guess the Porsche would fair no worse than the Nismo in the depreciation stakes, especially as the R36 will likely be announced later this year or early next.

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hornbaek said:

I have had two Porsche Turbo's (Coupe and Cab) in the past and the only time where they truly came into their stride was on de-restricted Autobahns or Alpine Passes - otherwise they were just too powerfull/fast for the average road driving which made them rather dull in the rev band where you can actually drive them (legally). Except for bragging rights i think that they are surplus to requirement these days so i think the real alternative is a "normal" 991 with some nice extras. Now that the revised 991 is turbo equipped as well you really have to ask yourself what the point of the 991 tt is ?

The Audi A6 range has Turbo engines throughout the range but that doesn't stop people buying RS6's. I get the 911 purist debate although i don't have experience of the NA engines, so don't care the rest of the 911 range has gone down the induction route as regardless the Turbo or Turbo S is still (excluding GT's) the top of the range in every way & hardly like the Turbo is being manufactured with a remapped Carrera S engine to get the higher outputs, i agree if that was the case then the Turbo/S would seem a touch pointless.

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leeGT2 said:

Whilst I agree Porsche quality is much better than Nissan, I wouldn't agree that an R36 would hamper the value of the Nismo. The R35 was a very special achievement and the Nismo was the best variant. An announcement of the R36 if anything will confirm that there will not be any better variant other than the Nismo in the r35 edition sure making it a collectable car...

But i'd be 99% confident the Nismo is only at best 10% better than the standard cars but for close to twice the money. All it's achieved is a pub chat victory in being a few seconds quicker round Nordschleife than it's Brother at half the price. Less than £5k in modifications to a standard R35 & the Nismo will be lacking. Had it been £10-15k more expensive then i may agree it's the premium model & may continue to command a collectable premium, but given i only know of 2 people in the UK that have shelled out for one, i really don't think the demand is there now or ever will be in the future. Great cars, but i'm afraid they're one trick ponies & i'd not even consider swapping my 'current' car for a Nismo unless i was allowed to immediately sell the Nismo & i'd then go & buy another M5 & strip out a GT-R as a track toy.

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9e 28 said:

Also the stock GTR looks great but WTF have they done to the Nismo with all the red go faster stripes? Looks absolutely awful. I would also try the standard Carrera S as others have mentioned. At least you can row your own gears and its 2wd - might be more fun on track? For me any turbo is too heavy for 6 track days a year. I'd be fearful that it may break.

Porsche are also releasing a 911 R - see if you can get one of those - unlikely but no harm asking.

I'd be confident a Turbo or Turbo S would be more than happy being thrown around a track a few times a year. Being honest, my last outing to Spa i saw 1 Turbo, 2 Turbo S's & probably 5 GT3's & none had any mechanical failure. If i can play hard in a tuned but still heavy F10 M5, i'd be happy to assume a Turbo S would eat a trackday with consulate ease.

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Hobo said:

Isn't that the same with most cars though, including the Porsche range ?

I mean;

991 Carrera 'S', £86k, 0-60 4.1s, 190mph
991 Turbo 'S', 146k, 0.60 2.9s, 205mph

Looking at the above, you pay 60k to get to 60mph just over a second quicker (when was the last time you were driving and thought "damn, if only this car had been a second quicker to 60" ???, and can theoretically do 15mph more at the top end, which is always useful on roads limited to 70 max.

Real world is that they are both very quick cars, and more than adequate for road use in the UK. That doesn't however stop people aspiring to own the top of the range model which is at a massive premium, for seemingly minimal difference. That said, the difference in performance at the top end does come at a cost (and there is obviously more to it than just 0-60 & top speed which effects price).

Ultimately, it comes down to picking the one you aspire to own, not which does this or that slightly quicker/better than the other. Its about opening the garage & wanting to go for a drive because its there, whether that be the local off licence, or down to the south of France. It's the way it make you feel, and those around you (ie which kid wouldn't rather be dropped off at school in a Porsche rather than a Mondeo), etc, etc. Its about everything at the supermarket thinking your a idiot because you can only fit 3 shopping bags in the boot (but in your head thats just an opportunity to go out again !!!). Its about knowing you work fricking hard, have to deal with sh!t, but this just makes it a bit more worthwhile ....

Couldn't agree more, however the performance delta albeit not looking massively different in the real world is night & day. The Turbo S is actually stated as doing 0-62 in 2.6 secs & the brochure says 2.9 but that's 0-62 not 60. This puts the Turbo S into hypercar territory as you could count on one hand the number of production cars that can do that, however a considerable number of cars cars hit 62 in just over 4 seconds & that now includes cars at little more than £30k new. Same applies to the top speed as very few can crack 200 but many can hit 190 so although as you say the gap on paper & even in the real world isn't great, the emotion behind what the Turbo S can do is much greater as doesn't feel normal (i assume).

Also the Turbo S probably has well over £20k's worth of kit that you'd have to pay for on the Carrera S so at worst the performance advantage is probably costing more like £30k rather than £60k, which granted is still a very big number, but you can get Carrera S performance for £30-40k in other marques so the same points apply, albeit you'd not be in a Porsche.

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9e 28 said:

I suppose it depends on driving style. Brakes as you're aware are the biggest issue in any heavy car. One or two trackdays a year no probs. 6 I'd say the brakes may be shot unless the new ceramics can take more of a hammering? Also driveshafts on 4wd cars are under tremendous stress especially on trick Cup type rubber. Will Porsche honour warranty payments if it does break on track?

That's a very good point & one i can't answer for the Turbo S. My M5 has consumed consumables, but not at an alarming rate. Been through 1 set of rear tyres, 1 1/2 sets of front tyres, 2 1/2 sets of rear pads, 1 set of front pads & my front discs will need replacing in the next few weeks, however that's having covered 22k miles & probably 10 track days of which 4 were at Spa. In a car that's lighter, more track focussed & with better brakes i'd not expect the Turbo S to be out performed by the F10 M5. I often track against my old R35 GT-R which is tuned to 650bhp & that's AWD but hasn't suffered any mechanical problems & i'd hope the 991 is a lot stronger & better manufactured than the R35.

I run my M5 on MPSS & being honest the Cup 2's which i would fit for track duties are only marginally sticker than the MPSS as other than the outer 1/4 of the tread, they're the same tyre & same compound.

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MaxA said:

So you want a sports car with hyper car performance, which is also a luxury GT (so it can accommodate a child and is capable of a bit of continent crossing), and presumably, when you get there, can handle 5-6 track days a year ... seems a bit ambitious to me, even for 150k. But I see where you're coming from.

It seems to me you need to be in something front engined, which has a decent boot and compliant suspension, and some space for big leather seats. And automatic. That sounds to me like very much like an Aston Martin or a Bentley. Maybe a Ferrari California or Maserati at a push (I'd go with the Maser). I'm just not sure that you actually want to track those ... even their owners don't seem to want to track them, when they're on the track.

You don't do Japanese apparently, so no new Honda NSX. So, we're left with the Dodge Viper, or a Chevrolet Corvette, except that - crap - they don't have rear seats. Umm.

How about a BMW M4 GTS? With of course a bigger brake kit for the trackage. There you go!

The big plus is it looks as though i'm already looking at the perfect car as others mentioned will have ranging from some to huge compromise so job potentially done as it appears the 991 Turbo/S can tick all the boxes with very little compromise, whereas alternatives will be very much lacking on track but perhaps have an edge in the luxury stakes. I'll take a look at the Maser, but reliability would be huge concern for me, as would i believe quite disturbing residuals & if my previous experience was anything to go by, not a particularly rapid vehicle, but i'll have a poke around so thanks.

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MaxA said:

Oh, I forgot the New Mercedes (non Benz) GTS - if sound was your measure of pleasure, then that would be The One. It went quite well around the Dubai 24hrs recently too: the Black Falcon GTS started in 98th, came 2nd. Good effort.

And at the end of the day, perhaps the end of the thread, I'd go with the Turbo. It's just practical enough, it's ridiculously fast, and it's definitely trackable. And I'm a 911 fan, so the debate in my head is between a Turbo and a GT3, where I think the T is the better road car, and the 3 is the one I'd buy.

If it wasn't a case of being mugged off by some speculator for £50k i'd agree with you & would be drawn to the GT3, but even the enthusiast in me isn't stupid enough to pay £150k for a used example of a £100k new car.

Never considered the GTS so good shout & will have a look, however the child in me still feels the Turbo S will top trump the GTS in everything other than sound.

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v8ksn said:

Alternative to a 991 Turbo S?

Looks as though it might be a challenge in the twisties.

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hornbaek said:

Two other cars to consider:

The Bentley Continental, the new DB11 or indeed a Ferrari California.

Not sure how good a Bentley Continental would be on track as i'm sure it would get through consumables at quite a rate. Nice for the long drives but as Sporty as a Parker Knoll Recliner.

When's the DB11 due for launch?

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MaserNut said:

Lots of good suggestions, but if you've always promised yourself a Turbo S then surely that's what you're going to get?
Having said that, the rumoured 2+2 version of the McLaren 570S would be a much more of an 'event' and not 'just' the top of the range 911...

Totally agree, however as the Turbo S is now priced squarely in Supercar territory i had one of those opposite to Man maths moments where it dawned on me this purchase would be double any previous car purchase i've made & thus before signing any paperwork it would be remiss of me not to check out the competition at this price point.

Wasn't aware a 2+2 570S was in the pipeline, any idea on potential launch dates?

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Kamox said:

I know it's not a trackday car. But it has all the comfort, luxury, presence, room and speed on public roads you need.

http://i.imgur.com/NyVCH3q.jpg

Although a stunning motor, i chose my F10 M5 over the E63 (albeit the Saloon) in 2014 & other than a nice note, it wouldn't offer anything over the car i've got now.

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Cheib said:

Wouldn't be any good for the track work but the FF on every other measure has to be taken bloody seriously. There are plenty of people that seem to successfully use them as daily drivers and owners speak very,very highly of them.

I don't know how tall the OP and Mrs OP are and how many kids they have but I was seriously considering a 991 GTS but came to the conclusion that for me it was at best a three seater even for occasional use...I am 6'2" and admittedly tend to like my driving position "relaxed" but my 5yr old wouldn't have been very happy behind me at all and my 7 yr old simply didn't fit.

It's not as batst mental quick as the Turbo S but then the Turbo S doesn't have the sensory overload of a Ferrari V12!

OP is 6ft & Mrs OP 5ft 9. The rear seating really would only be used on the rarest of occasions & even then it would likely be the youngest (2yrs old) in his Isofix carseat & he'd go behind his Mum. The priorities are the ability to be a daily driver, make me want to take the car out just for the hell of it, schleps onto the Continent & probably 4-5 UK trackways & a couple of days hooning round Spa/Zolder. Basically a step up from the BMW M's & Audi RS's so something that's out & out Sports car but as said initially the 911 Turbo was a car i've lusted after since childhood & i think is possibly the only car that can tick the boxes & provide relief for the long established itch.

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Kamox said:

This is the S-Class, not the E-class

See, Mercedes have gone like Audi & every car looks the same nowadays. I didn't even know Merc did an S-Class coupe. Even at 46 i'm a few years too young for such a car but it would no doubt be fun.

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Dr S said:

If you really want to do track days, then the option space is very limited. 911s are perfect to drive to the track, spend the day on track and then drive home wihtout any issue. Not many cars can do that.

I think that sums it up.

Did think about the 2 car option but although it should, it just doesn't get my juices flowing as i've always tried to satisfy all my requirements in one car which is what this purchase would ideally be. The wife has a Mini Countryman which she'll chop in for an Evoque when i go less practical than my M5, also hoping to buy a Clio Cup snotter in the Spring to play on some local UK tracks.

Having everything in the one car i'd hope to enjoy every drive i undertake, be that 250 miles from home to my office, a quick blast at the weekends or our annual trip to Spa along with some UK track days.