Is The Silly Season Coming To An End
Discussion
I've tried to buy 2 new Porches over the last 6 months but failed and not a pleasant experience so been looking at the plethora of used 997 GT3's,In general most of them don't seem to be moving!
I've not committed because I just couldn't get my head around some of the ridiculous prices with the inner feeling that at some point they could well be a price realignment. Ok so any marque can see this in a downturn but some cars that I was looking at two years ago have gone Up from £40's to £160's 996GT2's
996 GT'2s were hard to sell at mid 40's with some now asking a crazy £160k
997GT3RS were plentiful at 70 something
Since last year I have been tracking a nice spec 997 GT3,its been for sale for months,lots of months and still not sold. Its now just gone up another 7k so that had nothing to do with the purchase price and it has nothing to do with the real World value because it would have sold if it were that good a buy.People will say its the winter but that's never put me off if i am after a car and its a good car.
So i am now done with Porsche until Business as Normal returns, that's if it ever does???
I guess I will get shot at but gone Lambo Superleggera for now, sense of occasion,rarity and sensible pricing,I think ?
I see this one is still hanging about http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... , must be one of the best examples to be had but IMO pricing is just plain crazy ???
I've not committed because I just couldn't get my head around some of the ridiculous prices with the inner feeling that at some point they could well be a price realignment. Ok so any marque can see this in a downturn but some cars that I was looking at two years ago have gone Up from £40's to £160's 996GT2's
996 GT'2s were hard to sell at mid 40's with some now asking a crazy £160k
997GT3RS were plentiful at 70 something
Since last year I have been tracking a nice spec 997 GT3,its been for sale for months,lots of months and still not sold. Its now just gone up another 7k so that had nothing to do with the purchase price and it has nothing to do with the real World value because it would have sold if it were that good a buy.People will say its the winter but that's never put me off if i am after a car and its a good car.
So i am now done with Porsche until Business as Normal returns, that's if it ever does???
I guess I will get shot at but gone Lambo Superleggera for now, sense of occasion,rarity and sensible pricing,I think ?
I see this one is still hanging about http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... , must be one of the best examples to be had but IMO pricing is just plain crazy ???
I dont think you will ever see any 996 or 997 GT3 any cheaper than they are now.
I just cant fathom a logical reason as to why prices would crash. There are less cars than potential buyers. And a lot of sellers dont need to sell so can wait.
One things for sure, if they do, I will be in there like a shot! I am sure there are many out there waiting in the sidelines too.
They are just too desirable to many people.
I just cant fathom a logical reason as to why prices would crash. There are less cars than potential buyers. And a lot of sellers dont need to sell so can wait.
One things for sure, if they do, I will be in there like a shot! I am sure there are many out there waiting in the sidelines too.
They are just too desirable to many people.
OP: have you actually driven a 997 GT3? They are fab cars, but having owned one, they're not really suited to the road - too firm and gearing too long to really enjoy. You need to track them to really enjoy them (and they are fab there!), at which point it's going to start getting expensive. And there's also an argument that they're not focused enough as standard for the track if you're reeeeally into your track driving and know what you're doing.
If it's the driving enjoyment you crave, you might be better off getting a regular 997.2 C2S and just fitting some fancy shocks/springs/ARBs/new topmounts/poly bushes etc and getting it set up properly. If the shocks are adjustable like PSS10s you can even dial them up and down depending on whether you're on the road or track. You could do all that for about £5k plus cost of the car and it'd be reversible if you wanted to sell.
ETA: Carnewal do PSS9s for 997 C2s - http://www.carnewal.com/products/P97/p97023/Bilste...
If it's the driving enjoyment you crave, you might be better off getting a regular 997.2 C2S and just fitting some fancy shocks/springs/ARBs/new topmounts/poly bushes etc and getting it set up properly. If the shocks are adjustable like PSS10s you can even dial them up and down depending on whether you're on the road or track. You could do all that for about £5k plus cost of the car and it'd be reversible if you wanted to sell.
ETA: Carnewal do PSS9s for 997 C2s - http://www.carnewal.com/products/P97/p97023/Bilste...
Juno said:
I see this one is still hanging about http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p... , must be one of the best examples to be had but IMO pricing is just plain crazy ???
Worth every penny .mollytherocker said:
I dont think you will ever see any 996 or 997 GT3 any cheaper than they are now.
+1 Supply and Demand.Most people who have one and know what they got will not sell. A lot of people who sell regret it very badly! So there will always be a very limited number of good cars on the market.
Mario149 said:
OP: have you actually driven a 997 GT3? They are fab cars, but having owned one, they're not really suited to the road - too firm and gearing too long to really enjoy. You need to track them to really enjoy them (and they are fab there!), at which point it's going to start getting expensive.
The flip side to this viewpoint is mine, I own a 997 GT3 and I use it primarily for Euro trips and high-days and dry-days and its absolutely fantastic. I admit the gearing is a little long but when you wring it out the sound is fantastic! The car is very special and the steering and gear change are the best I have every experienced (though the gear change in a Honda S2000 is a very close second for feeling)
As a car to own and cherish and thrash when the mood takes you its unsurpassed. They are solid feeling cars too and the build quality puts many later cars to shame.
In over 10,000 miles in mine, never once has the car failed to deliver or felt fragile. Its SO much more talented than me and I enjoy trying to get the best out of it each time I drive it.
I am not saying this because I own one but in a world of £120k 997.1 RS's and £200k 996 RS's the plain vanilla 997 GT3 at £80k is an absolute bargain!
Juno let me share a few things, as others have said you will not find a better car for doing pretty much everything really really brilliantly, at the moment the market may look slow and you are seeing cars maybe sticking a little longer, there is good reason they stick, they are imo not the best examples, also factor in that the 997 gt3 is still near to it's original selling price so it has not leapt ahead like other models. Ok so also factor in that this is also a market like any other business, at some point you enter the market, but this point depends on you and what you really are about doesn't it, and if you has a crystal ball then you would know when to go, but you don't, but what we all know anyone who has owned, driven and enjoyed these cars is that we can guarantee you a truly wonderful machine that trumps the game you are playing at this moment in time, what is really your enemy here is finding a straight car with no stories.
v8ksn said:
Mario149 said:
OP: have you actually driven a 997 GT3? They are fab cars, but having owned one, they're not really suited to the road - too firm and gearing too long to really enjoy. You need to track them to really enjoy them (and they are fab there!), at which point it's going to start getting expensive.
The flip side to this viewpoint is mine, I own a 997 GT3 and I use it primarily for Euro trips and high-days and dry-days and its absolutely fantastic. I admit the gearing is a little long but when you wring it out the sound is fantastic! The car is very special and the steering and gear change are the best I have every experienced (though the gear change in a Honda S2000 is a very close second for feeling)
As a car to own and cherish and thrash when the mood takes you its unsurpassed. They are solid feeling cars too and the build quality puts many later cars to shame.
In over 10,000 miles in mine, never once has the car failed to deliver or felt fragile. Its SO much more talented than me and I enjoy trying to get the best out of it each time I drive it.
I am not saying this because I own one but in a world of £120k 997.1 RS's and £200k 996 RS's the plain vanilla 997 GT3 at £80k is an absolute bargain!
BUT, for me on the road it always felt like it was chomping at the bit and you couldn't explore the engine until really illegal speeds which just made me frustrated as I don't like pushing my luck with plod. And in terms of comfort, I never had a desire to take it on a road trip longer than a weekend. Between ride height - mine was even 8mm above standard to help in London - and suspension firmness (would have been more comfy with regular seats than Carrera GT buckets admittedly), it's not the sort of thing I'd want to do 400 miles in, then navigate around a foreign town/city before trying to get it into a hotel car park (in terms of parking honestly, I'd rather take a Ferrari as at least you then tend to get preferential treatment / parking space ), then repeat that another 6 days in a row - I'm thinking of our recent road trip to Spain where a GT3 would have been a 'mare.
All that said and having thought about it, I think if you can you should scratch the GT3 itch even if only for a bit and do a few track days to experience it. Values look pretty solid, although I'd be trying to buy/sell privately if I could as there is a *massive* gap between trade and retail asking prices in my recent experience. And even if it turns out it's not quite as useable as you'd like on the road and move it on as I did, you won't regret it, I certainly don't.
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 2nd February 10:04
I have had my 7.2 GT3 for over 3 years and around 17k miles.
I agree it's not fun in traffic and towns but it's great fun on road trips (2 Alpine trips, 1 trip to Brittany, and 1 Alpine trip coming) and A and B roads. True, you don't often get to wind it past 6k rpms, but when you do, it's sheer heaven.
For me, it's also about the feel of the car when you are in it and driving it. The compactness, the slight edginess, the rawness, the noise, the steering feel, the notchy gearshift and its changing personality as it warms up, the authentic (no contrived pops, bangs and farts of modern PSE systems) and varying (tone and pitch) engine and exhaust sounds throughout the rev range, the throttle response, the snug bucket seats, the athleticism .. there is nothing that comes close, let alone beats it, in its price range; if what you are looking is a driving experience and sensation that requires concentration, desire and engagement.
I agree it's not fun in traffic and towns but it's great fun on road trips (2 Alpine trips, 1 trip to Brittany, and 1 Alpine trip coming) and A and B roads. True, you don't often get to wind it past 6k rpms, but when you do, it's sheer heaven.
For me, it's also about the feel of the car when you are in it and driving it. The compactness, the slight edginess, the rawness, the noise, the steering feel, the notchy gearshift and its changing personality as it warms up, the authentic (no contrived pops, bangs and farts of modern PSE systems) and varying (tone and pitch) engine and exhaust sounds throughout the rev range, the throttle response, the snug bucket seats, the athleticism .. there is nothing that comes close, let alone beats it, in its price range; if what you are looking is a driving experience and sensation that requires concentration, desire and engagement.
For me the advantage of aircooled, in driving terms, is that it's harder to make the car go fast, but it rewards you more for wringing it out (max torque on my 993 arrives at 5500rpm on the dyno I had done and the redline is 6700) and when you do wring its neck to get the performance you're not at silly licence losing speeds too quickly but it feels like you're going like the clappers. From memory you're most of the way through 4th by the time you get past 100mph in the shorter geared NVR 993. And that's only the going in a straight line bit.
By the time you start talking about corners where you know that if you get it wrong there's zero electronics to save you, it's all rather more exciting. I could chuck my GT3 about within a couple of hundred miles of getting it, ditto the BGTS now, but I've had the 993 for over 3 years and I still haven't got comfortable with a little showboating - in fact I'm thinking of booking a morning on the low friction stuff (would be third time there, but first in 993) at PEC Silverstone purely to learn how to tame its arse in a safe environment
By the time you start talking about corners where you know that if you get it wrong there's zero electronics to save you, it's all rather more exciting. I could chuck my GT3 about within a couple of hundred miles of getting it, ditto the BGTS now, but I've had the 993 for over 3 years and I still haven't got comfortable with a little showboating - in fact I'm thinking of booking a morning on the low friction stuff (would be third time there, but first in 993) at PEC Silverstone purely to learn how to tame its arse in a safe environment
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