Flipping cars, a hard lesson
Discussion
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
I have been a Porsche enthusiast ever since I was a kid. Saved very hard, bought a 5 year old 911SC at only 24. Along came a house, sold the SC, but began ‘patiently’ saving for a future Porsche. 14 years on, saved enough to buy a 2000 Boxster S, followed by a 03 Boxster S. In 05 bought a 997 Carrera, in 06 a Boxster 2.7, and in 07 my dream car, a 997 GT3. Kept it 4 years, had a brief dabble in a Cayenne D, then had a 991 3.4 ‘manual.’ (In 2011 I notified my regular OPC intent to buy a gen 2 991 GT3 - was no 1 on the list.) The 3.4 was actually great car but 18 mths on couldn’t sell for love or money. Lost 22K. A big hit for a mostly 20% tax-payer… My OPC recommended I order a Macan DS or even two - as this new model would lose little or no money, giving me time to recover from my loss. So ordered 2. Kept each one 9 mths, losing almost nothing on them.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
As the bubble began to burst, I switched attention to a Macan GTS. Again, I ordered 2, one from another OPC, hoping for further depreciation free motoring. The first GTS came a month late, the second, a month early. So, I sold the first GTS, with less than 1000 miles, actually made money on that.
However, the second GTS, I bought ex VAT with a little help from a trader (who was) a friend. He allowed me to pay £10K less for it, and gave me the option to sell it back to him, or pay the VAT and sell it to anyone. In July 2016, seeing more GTS’s briefly flooding the market, I decided to get out whilst I could realize 2 years of depreciation free motoring.
My losses overcome, I was back on track to buy a 991 gen 2 GT3. Mission accomplished.
BUT no. I learned yesterday the trader ‘exported’ my last Macan GTS. This flagged up with Porsche, and they black listed me - indefinitely - from buying any limited edition or GT Porsches. GUTTED. Obviously it’s a 1st world problem, but take note everyone and don’t get your fingers burned - whether it’s depreciation free motoring - or pure money making you are chasing…
30 years of Porsche loyalty, one error of poor judgment, and outcast.
Any ideas how to get into Porsche’s good books are welcomed.
Just for completeness, I was definitely not complicit in the export, and indeed the trader gave me his word he would not do so. What I mean by 'mostly a 20% tax payer' is that on my income, I have to save damn hard, and have to be very careful to limit my losses to even play in this market at all.
Edited by notsomadmick on Sunday 19th February 17:49
These are comments are interesting and fair.
The trader (who I once trusted, because he was a friend) - told me it was completely lawful to buy a car ex VAT as long as you are operating a business as a motor trader.
He explained: I could pay him for the car ex VAT. Then he would pay for the car from dealership for the full amount - including the VAT.
He said if I wanted to keep the car more than a just few months, I must pay him the VAT amount back.
My given options were:
1. He could sell the car for me within the UK for a small commission.
2. He could sell the car abroad for a small commission (potentially for more money) and he would claim the VAT back.
3. I could pay him the VAT amount - allowing me to sell it back to the dealership - or privately within the UK.
(To confirm; VAT was paid on this car.)
So, after 3 months and 4000 miles - I approached my dealership. They offered me £2K below list. So I spoke to my friend, and he offered me 2K over list.
Therefore I chose option 2 and stipulated (to which the trader gave me his word) that he would only sell it WITHIN the UK.
The problem was - he broke his word and sold it abroad. I guess he saw bigger pound signs, and thought no-one would be the wiser.
This action would "obviously" flag up at Porsche - which I knew, which I told him it would be, and something frankly I agree with.
I took it all on trust, and got my fingers burned.
The point of my post is to simply to say: "Don't try and be clever and get yourself in a similar position!"
The trader (who I once trusted, because he was a friend) - told me it was completely lawful to buy a car ex VAT as long as you are operating a business as a motor trader.
He explained: I could pay him for the car ex VAT. Then he would pay for the car from dealership for the full amount - including the VAT.
He said if I wanted to keep the car more than a just few months, I must pay him the VAT amount back.
My given options were:
1. He could sell the car for me within the UK for a small commission.
2. He could sell the car abroad for a small commission (potentially for more money) and he would claim the VAT back.
3. I could pay him the VAT amount - allowing me to sell it back to the dealership - or privately within the UK.
(To confirm; VAT was paid on this car.)
So, after 3 months and 4000 miles - I approached my dealership. They offered me £2K below list. So I spoke to my friend, and he offered me 2K over list.
Therefore I chose option 2 and stipulated (to which the trader gave me his word) that he would only sell it WITHIN the UK.
The problem was - he broke his word and sold it abroad. I guess he saw bigger pound signs, and thought no-one would be the wiser.
This action would "obviously" flag up at Porsche - which I knew, which I told him it would be, and something frankly I agree with.
I took it all on trust, and got my fingers burned.
The point of my post is to simply to say: "Don't try and be clever and get yourself in a similar position!"
Thanks for your advice. In fact as of only yesterday, I have just done exactly that.
I did my homework first, and discovered the trader had NOT exported the car.
My OPC had made an error somehow??? So with some convincing and finally a mutual understanding of where we were both coming from, I am now back on a short list.
Everything said, I have learned a big lesson. Bottom line: Driving GT cars means a lot to me - not making money from them.
I did my homework first, and discovered the trader had NOT exported the car.
My OPC had made an error somehow??? So with some convincing and finally a mutual understanding of where we were both coming from, I am now back on a short list.
Everything said, I have learned a big lesson. Bottom line: Driving GT cars means a lot to me - not making money from them.
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