991.2 GTS Turbo Failure Issue
Discussion
Hi,
I have just been informed by my local Porsche specialist (Weissach in Cheshire) that the turbos in my 57k mile 991.2 GTS have failed as per my own suspision. The remedial work appears to have been done in 2020 by Porsche and has always been serviced at the OPC's before and during my ownership.
I was wondering if anyone else has any experience with dealing with these sorts of issues with Porsche ('good will' as its put to me) when the car has no official Porsche warranty but it is clearly a well known problem with the cars? I spoke to Porsche at Chester but they would like to do another inspection.
Having been an owner of multiple Porsches, Caymans etc its all rather disappointing on a car which I've had for less than a year!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
I have just been informed by my local Porsche specialist (Weissach in Cheshire) that the turbos in my 57k mile 991.2 GTS have failed as per my own suspision. The remedial work appears to have been done in 2020 by Porsche and has always been serviced at the OPC's before and during my ownership.
I was wondering if anyone else has any experience with dealing with these sorts of issues with Porsche ('good will' as its put to me) when the car has no official Porsche warranty but it is clearly a well known problem with the cars? I spoke to Porsche at Chester but they would like to do another inspection.
Having been an owner of multiple Porsches, Caymans etc its all rather disappointing on a car which I've had for less than a year!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
PetrolTed said:
I had trouble enough getting Porsche to acknowledge the problem, even with a warranty.
Why the hell this isn’t a recall matter I don’t know.
I cannot believe that this has been allowed to continue especially with these cars all being affected and having been out since 2016. I am trying to get some traction going with Porsche UK to get this sorted out. Any information from any owners would really help with this situationWhy the hell this isn’t a recall matter I don’t know.
Polome said:
I experience the smoky turbo symptom last year ( see my previous post ) For some reason , cost I suppose , OPC’s unless a very obvious sign of turbo damage have been instructed to replace turbo oil lines and drain pots as a first attempt at fixing smoky problem. It didn’t work for me and I needed one new turbo. Problem is the work involved for pipes etc is almost as much as replacing turbo so car had to go back for more days….OPC certainly don’t do themselves any favours when trying to avoid warranty work…I’m lucky to have a good connection with the techs that work on my car , they tell me it’s the warranty dept that cause all cheap fixes and bother. good luck with repair…great cars when working!
Brilliant cars when they are working! But I agree, mine apparently had the remedial work done of replacing pipes etc but it still happen and just the left side that has failed but going to do both as I will more than likely be paying for it personally. It's basically the seals that go because of the pressure I feel with them being so low down - hence a fundamental design flaw! Thinking twice about another Porsche, 718 Cayman I had before for 4 years was faultless, expected the same experience but clearly not! I think as another poster says a warranty on any of these cars is required but a necessary 'Tax' to own one with these issues.Grantstown said:
One issue in common with 911s is that all the kit outside of the engine block is sat there with no protection from salt and road debris. When combined with the cheap fixings it does seem to be a recipe for problems if used through the winter.
At least the engine seems to have proved to be strong.
As has been said, recalls tend to be for safety issues. Having said that, if owners clubs can generate enough noise then maybe Porsche might react. The 991.1 GT3 would be an example.
The 992 has the same engine. I wonder if they’ve changed anything with the oil feed. This would give a bit of a clue. I suspect they are likely to have had some similar failures. Loads of these cars have been produced though.
The engine is solid! As per my specialist tells me. Ninemeister as per my previous post says that the 992 is the same design and will happen when they start to age a little more. My 991.2 GTS is on 56k miles and has just happened on a 67 plate - so overall from what I read I've actually been quite lucky and it has taken quite a long time (although having only owned it since May 23). I read another forum saying the oil seal had been improved with the 992 but Ninemeister disagree otherwise I would sell up and move up to one of those or unfortunately move away completely. I've had an Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV as a daily for the last 6+ years and been faultless so thinking a Gulia QV might be the best option going forward for reliability!At least the engine seems to have proved to be strong.
As has been said, recalls tend to be for safety issues. Having said that, if owners clubs can generate enough noise then maybe Porsche might react. The 991.1 GT3 would be an example.
The 992 has the same engine. I wonder if they’ve changed anything with the oil feed. This would give a bit of a clue. I suspect they are likely to have had some similar failures. Loads of these cars have been produced though.
Cheib said:
I guess that’s for the warranty company and Porsche to sort out. If you’ve got a warranty it is there problem. Unfortunately the lesson here is don’t run a modern Porsche without a warranty…I’ve got three that are all under the extended warranty…I think when you look at the cost of repairing these cars and the fact that some parts can have horrendous delays the hire car they provide if a car isn’t roadworthy makes it worthwhile.
I completely agree, but buying any fairly modern Porsche now a days from a non main dealer (even with a full OPC history) usually doesn't come with the Porsche warranty as an option, in my case I was offered WarrantyWise which I didn't take as it wasn't getting very good feedback online and I'm sure wouldn't have covered this massive repair at 11.5k.I was after the manual version of the GTS which was hard to track down (last March) so had to stay out of the main dealers - sometimes there's no option. Unfortunately if I had waited a year I would have found many better options - but how long do you wait..
I agree with Porsche OPC service cars they provide, I had a Macan last year whilst my Cayman was in but surely this should be expected as standard with these sorts of cars even for an MOT or anything at an OPC? I just think If Porsche waived the inspection fee, paying for the Porsche OPC warranty would be fine..
If anyone has had any issues with their own 991.2 911 whether they have owned it in the past or currently own one - if they could message me directly with their experiences it would be really helpful with my own situation but also future situations with current or potential new owners and getting some sort of group and traction together that can sort this out for all. I think this is as a big an issue as with the GT3 and should be sorted out or at least admitted to by Porsche, even more so when the remedial work they do isn't sufficient.
I guess my wishes of a GT3 are over for now!
I guess my wishes of a GT3 are over for now!
Cheib said:
I’d imagine expense. Active engine mounts fail quite regularly and the RWS mechanism/motor are also known to have issue…when one of the engine mounts failed in my car it was replaced without issue (under warranty)…two months later second one went. OPC told me that happens 50% of the time when they replace a single engine mount…Porsche wont let them replace them both.
I do wonder what the deal is with the extended warranty in an issue like this. The extended warranty is an insurance product so the insurance company would take the financial hit….I wonder if there is some kind of push back from the insurance company to Porsche is there are repeated claims on something like this.
I am guessing there is some kind of % threshold where the amount of failures triggers a recall or it is a safety issue.
Would you mind describing what the symptoms are with the engine mounts and RMS / Mechanism motor failing are? I do wonder what the deal is with the extended warranty in an issue like this. The extended warranty is an insurance product so the insurance company would take the financial hit….I wonder if there is some kind of push back from the insurance company to Porsche is there are repeated claims on something like this.
I am guessing there is some kind of % threshold where the amount of failures triggers a recall or it is a safety issue.
fistenburger said:
rjh_36093 said:
If anyone has had any issues with their own 991.2 911 whether they have owned it in the past or currently own one - if they could message me directly with their experiences it would be really helpful with my own situation but also future situations with current or potential new owners and getting some sort of group and traction together that can sort this out for all. I think this is as a big an issue as with the GT3 and should be sorted out or at least admitted to by Porsche, even more so when the remedial work they do isn't sufficient.
I guess my wishes of a GT3 are over for now!
I tried the 'Email Me' button on your profile but it doesn't seem to work. I had turbo failure on my previous 991.2S. Happy to share my experiences.I guess my wishes of a GT3 are over for now!
rik dot robarts at mac dot com
Grantstown said:
One issue in common with 911s is that all the kit outside of the engine block is sat there with no protection from salt and road debris. When combined with the cheap fixings it does seem to be a recipe for problems if used through the winter.
At least the engine seems to have proved to be strong.
As has been said, recalls tend to be for safety issues. Having said that, if owners clubs can generate enough noise then maybe Porsche might react. The 991.1 GT3 would be an example.
The 992 has the same engine. I wonder if they’ve changed anything with the oil feed. This would give a bit of a clue. I suspect they are likely to have had some similar failures. Loads of these cars have been produced though.
Do you know how many members at all it took for the issues with the 991.2 GT3 to be sorted at all? I can't find much info online. At least the engine seems to have proved to be strong.
As has been said, recalls tend to be for safety issues. Having said that, if owners clubs can generate enough noise then maybe Porsche might react. The 991.1 GT3 would be an example.
The 992 has the same engine. I wonder if they’ve changed anything with the oil feed. This would give a bit of a clue. I suspect they are likely to have had some similar failures. Loads of these cars have been produced though.
I was told by my specialist that the 992 has the same design and issues but slightly more covered up in terms of the rust issue but I still think the oil pipe issue might still be present which I think is the bigger issue. I am speaking to Litchfield on Tuesday so I will see what they say as I heard they might have a proper fix. I am just after some clarification that if I down the official Porsche route and having to spend around 11-12k to get this issue sorted that it won't keep happening, as it seems pretty random. Some members report this happening at 7,000 miles whereas mine hit 57 and I have no knowledge of it being done before.
Do you mind sharing your experience with how Porsche dealt with issue with yours and their explanation either via Forum or direct message, if you are able to spare the time?
Tim 911 said:
I bought my 991.2 C4 GTS back in November 2021 when the car was on 13,000 miles.
My car is now on 24,000 miles and is at Porsche Solihull with suspected turbo failure.
The car was originally diagnosed with a faulty oil separator and replaced with a new one accordingly.
My car went into Porsche Solihull on Monday 26th February. They delivered it back to me on Wednesday 20th March. I drove to work the following day and the dash lit like a christmas tree followed by clouds of blue smoke!!
I limped it back to the dealership and they have put me back in the dreadful and gutless Macan T that I used for 3 weeks previously.
I have a feeling I’ll be in the Macan for quite a few weeks yet
Glad to hear that you are driving the car on a daily basis like me! Doesn't seem to be many who do that, even though personally that was the whole point of the 911 going back in history. It's interesting that you got warning lights on the dashboard, as I had nothing at all showing up. It was just observation that lot of smoke was coming out of the back during startup. After a long run and another startup it's usually fine but I guess that's because the oil had been burnt off from inside the turbos? Not to sure. I think as I keep sayings its with the oil lines being insufficient then taking out the turbos. My car is now on 24,000 miles and is at Porsche Solihull with suspected turbo failure.
The car was originally diagnosed with a faulty oil separator and replaced with a new one accordingly.
My car went into Porsche Solihull on Monday 26th February. They delivered it back to me on Wednesday 20th March. I drove to work the following day and the dash lit like a christmas tree followed by clouds of blue smoke!!
I limped it back to the dealership and they have put me back in the dreadful and gutless Macan T that I used for 3 weeks previously.
I have a feeling I’ll be in the Macan for quite a few weeks yet
What have the dealership been like to deal with and have they given you any info on what actually causes the issue? I think they have to keep to the warranty guidelines hence possibly not replacing your turbos right away. I think however the main issue is whether it will keep happening again and again. Some people report on this forum and others it happening at very low mileages and then mine at 57k which I guess is very late on from a 2017 car.
I had to limp mine as well home and then as a safety measure have it trailered to the dealership! OPC's seem to be giving out the Macan T's generally for the curtsy cars. When my Cayman 718 was in for its first service and various recalls used to get a Cayman but the last time I went it was a Macan T. Its a nice car to sit in inside but totally underpowered with I think from memory the same engine from a Golf GTi pulling an SUV.. Can't believe it has the Porsche badge on its bonnet in that spec to be honest!
If you could get any information on whether its an actual fix for the problem from the OPC or just replacing parts when you collect, I think it would be helpful for all on this one!
I will be doing the same with my specialist when they have the parts required. At least you have the warranty that's all I can say, but even then its unacceptable for a car being sold currently in approved used by Porsche to have these issues and not be depended on. I'm having to pay 11-12k out of Porsche warranty
ellroy said:
Took a fair while to get the parts for mine last summer.
Hope the wait won’t be too long given the weather is just starting to pick up.
There must be loads around that require the same parts so can understand that, completely. Hopefully I can enjoy it a little over the summer before selling it and not worry about any road salts corroding the car underneath Hope the wait won’t be too long given the weather is just starting to pick up.
griffdude said:
rjh_36093 said:
That's a really low mileage for it to happen. Do you know if this was an actual fix, i.e. different oil lines etc to solve the problem at all?
I asked about this when looking through the service history pre purchase. The service manager said it was due to the car being under used. Am not aware if anything was modified along with the turbo replacement.Tim 911 said:
I’m really sorry to hear that you’ll be having to pay such a large amount to get your car back on the road. It seems inherently unfair when this is such an obvious issue. I sincerely hope you can get a contribution towards the costs from Porsche as a goodwill gesture.
I did actually consider not extending my warranty last November when the original 24 month Porsche Approved warranty was due to expire. I’m so relieved I did!!
The first time my car went into Porsche Solihull it was on a trailer as I had to be recovered from the Cotswolds. The car lost power, sounded like a bag of spanners and I had 4 warning lights on the dash (AWD function limited, PSM failure, Engine control fault & Oil level below minimum).
The vehicle inspection report confirmed cylinder deactivation and spark plugs needed for cylinders 2 & 6. The report also stated “oil being collected in the RH bank turbo intake” and “removing the intercooler to drain off and wash out the oil that has been drawn into the system”.
Porsche Solihull have been woeful. Zero communication unless instigated by me. Messages to call me back with updates ignored. Not the kind of service I expect from a brand like Porsche
I get the impression their workshop is overwhelmed with work. My car is due a service in May and I was advised to get it booked in last month!!
I’ll give an update on the issue when I know more.
Hi, I did actually consider not extending my warranty last November when the original 24 month Porsche Approved warranty was due to expire. I’m so relieved I did!!
The first time my car went into Porsche Solihull it was on a trailer as I had to be recovered from the Cotswolds. The car lost power, sounded like a bag of spanners and I had 4 warning lights on the dash (AWD function limited, PSM failure, Engine control fault & Oil level below minimum).
The vehicle inspection report confirmed cylinder deactivation and spark plugs needed for cylinders 2 & 6. The report also stated “oil being collected in the RH bank turbo intake” and “removing the intercooler to drain off and wash out the oil that has been drawn into the system”.
Porsche Solihull have been woeful. Zero communication unless instigated by me. Messages to call me back with updates ignored. Not the kind of service I expect from a brand like Porsche
I get the impression their workshop is overwhelmed with work. My car is due a service in May and I was advised to get it booked in last month!!
I’ll give an update on the issue when I know more.
Thanks for the message, Tim. It is unfair and wrong to be honest when there are so many people who state the same issues. With a majority of the cars being under Porsche warranty, I don't know why if they know there is a problem to be more proactive with getting it sorted out before customers have to break down out and about enjoying their cars!
I tried to get in contact with Porsche Chester on multiple occasions prior to taking it to Weissach UK, they for some reasons were not picking up the phone on that day at all so I gave up and went with the Porsche accredited route thinking that the likelihood of Porsche giving any good will out of warranty was slim even though the car had always been serviced with them, even down to the tyres during and prior to my ownership. Having had to get the car trailered to the garage, I wasn't going to get it taken to Chester afterwards to possibly have to pay to bring it back again if they weren't going to help out financially. Weissach UK has been fair with their labour costs thus far, it's the part cost that is high. The whole thing is going to cost a little under £13k (fingers crossed) as it hasn't been completed.
I also needed new rear springs as they had corroded and therefore snapped as well
I'm glad you extended the warranty! - I think this is an absolute must with these cars. Unfortunately you save at the beginning (like me) but pay for it later on. You've absolutely got peace of mind!!
It sounds like your situation is slightly different that mine, I didn't have any warnings or anything on the dashboard at all, just smoke but the car did drive although not with much boost.
Porsche Solihull sound very disappointing thus far and absolutely not what you expect from this brand!
I have heard the same rumour up here about them being overwhelmed with warranty repairs, especially from the likes of the Taycan etc.
Look forward to hearing the update when you've heard back!
Grantstown said:
It was the 991.1 GT3 rather than the .2. Rennlist will have lots of information on the web. From memory, it was American owners who got together.
My car is still going well, but I’ve anticipated the problem and have the turbo upgrade plan in my head.
Maybe you should contact PorscheclubGB in the first instance?
I've just been reading about, interesting how they managed to do it. But yes possibly have to join the PorscheClubGB to be able to find any more insights. My car is still going well, but I’ve anticipated the problem and have the turbo upgrade plan in my head.
Maybe you should contact PorscheclubGB in the first instance?
Glad to hear yours is going well! They are amazing cars. If you don't mind me asking though why do you think the uprated turbos would affect it if it's the oil lines? Or is more changed
Iknownothin said:
I had my oil lines and both turbos replaced under warranty last September at around 25k miles. The OPC were great and all dealt with in a couple of weeks. I had the standard smoking on startup and large plumes of smoke on full throttle upshifts. On test my turbos were only achieving about 0.5bar on full boost when I dropped it off with them.
I was told the replacement oil lines now have a one way valve which the originals didn't which stops oil being pulled back into the turbos on big pressure changes. The turbos are also revised and are now the same as the 992 which have additional protection around the main actuator.
That is interesting. I wonder if they have revised the oil lines again since my remedial work was done. I noticed on 911 parts online that there are many revisions of the turbos so sounds like if I was on original turbos and not oil lines it wasn't fully resolved originally. I was told the replacement oil lines now have a one way valve which the originals didn't which stops oil being pulled back into the turbos on big pressure changes. The turbos are also revised and are now the same as the 992 which have additional protection around the main actuator.
What mileage was yours on?
GT4P said:
Basically Porsche know there is a problem to upgrade the parts and should offer the same sort of warranty terms as on the affected parts as per the 991.1 GT3
I would absolutely agree! It's just going about how to raise enough noise about it really. Porsche GB might be a good place to start, so was going to post there as well. PinkHouse said:
Looks like Porsche has become complacent with their reputation for build quality, if this was happening to this extent from a certain British supercar manufacturer, there would be a lot of abuse around reliability issues. The saving grace is that the extended Warranty is quite cheap to compensate
Think they're just hiding behind their brand a little too much. But yes if it was McLaren or Aston then we would all know about it. Ironically I decided against a the 4.0 2018+ Vantage as I thought the Porsche would be better built with no issues. But warranty is a must now I'm learning Grantstown said:
PinkHouse said:
Looks like Porsche has become complacent with their reputation for build quality, if this was happening to this extent from a certain British supercar manufacturer, there would be a lot of abuse around reliability issues. The saving grace is that the extended Warranty is quite cheap to compensate
They haven’t had a reputation for good build quality since the 1990s!Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff