Buying a 981, red flags?

[paulguitar]

I viewed a Boxster 981 recently. Stunning car, a bit of a unicorn being Aqua blue with tan extended leather, plus PSE.


I looked at the paperwork in detail. At the last service, 18 months ago at an OPC, they had flagged up the following, all of which the owner declined:

1. Replace tyres. (But none at less than 4.5mm)
2. Rear brake discs 'close to limit'. (No more details)
3. Exhaust leak from flanges and exhaust valves.
4. Slight oil leak from cam cover bank two.

Are these genuine red flags, or is it more likely to be an overzealous OPC out for a bit of light extortion?

[paulguitar]

the-norseman said:

paulguitar said:

or is it more likely to be an overzealous OPC out for a bit of light extortion?

I would say this.

I was thinking the same.

Also, an amazing story from the owner. Within a few weeks of getting the service referred to at that OPC, a heavy rainstorm resulted in the dreaded water ingress under the passenger seat. They'd specifically listed having cleared the drain channels on the service bill but then charged the owner over £3,000 to dry out the car and replace the modules.

[paulguitar]

Armitage.Shanks said:

paulguitar said:

Also, an amazing story from the owner. Within a few weeks of getting the service referred to at that OPC, a heavy rainstorm resulted in the dreaded water ingress under the passenger seat. They'd specifically listed having cleared the drain channels on the service bill but then charged the owner over £3,000 to dry out the car and replace the modules.

Blowing air down the two drain holes from the top is not ideal as you're effectively pushing the crud to the one way valves behind the side intake panels. Some will use a 'trombone cleaner' but even this will not get past the valve without the risk of inverting the rubber causing further blockage risk. The best solution is to take off the side skirt (20mins of a job) and remove the valves. Either give them a good cleaning along with prodding the drain pipes and either put them back or leave them off to get the best discharge of water. You can then clean out all the crap like small stones that have entered the side intakes

Thanks for the info.

I fully intend to get that sorted as a matter of urgency, whichever 981 I end up buying. I already took care of it on my (current) 987.

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

I viewed a Boxster 981 recently. Stunning car, a bit of a unicorn being Aqua blue with tan extended leather, plus PSE.


I looked at the paperwork in detail. At the last service, 18 months ago at an OPC, they had flagged up the following, all of which the owner declined:

1. Replace tyres. (But none at less than 4.5mm)
2. Rear brake discs 'close to limit'. (No more details)
3. Exhaust leak from flanges and exhaust valves.
4. Slight oil leak from cam cover bank two.

Are these genuine red flags, or is it more likely to be an overzealous OPC out for a bit of light extortion?

What we don't see is Porsche probably quoted him 5 grand to fix this lot. Or maybe more. And I'd guess that scared him off.

They don't fix PSE valves so they will replace the whole exhaust. Does standard have valves? 2 grand maybe.

Brake discs rear only and pads will be a grand.

Tyres definitely a grand.

Oil leak is engine out and then fixing stuff easily a grand.

So that's how i get to 5.

If you had warranty I don't think you'd be saved from all of that. Maybe the oil leak is warranty but that's it. I've heard different reports from owners about exhaust being a consumable item and so therefore not warranty. Obviously if you do have warranty I don't think you can decline remedial work like this or that may invalidate your warranty going forward.

Yes, I suspect you are right. I doubt the tyres and brakes genuinely need doing, and I'd imagine the exhaust and small oil leak would be able to be solved fairly easily at an independent during its next scheduled service, in September this year.


The seller is pretty adamant he's not going to drop below his asking price of £25,000. I genuinely love the car, it's by some margin the most striking I have looked at, but I'd be much happier at £23k to give me some headroom for stuff that might need doing.

Here it is:

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

The seller is pretty adamant he's not going to drop below his asking price of £25,000. I genuinely love the car, it's by some margin the most striking I have looked at, but I'd be much happier at £23k to give me some headroom for stuff that might need doing.

Good for him

I don't like to hear stories of sellers dropping thousands off their asking price but nowadays most buyers seem to assume its fair game. If more sellers stopped doing it then maybe we'd get buyers to understand its not a given they can always rely on.

I'm always reluctant to go much over the Autotrader valuation for a private sale.

That said, a seller sticking to their guns gives me the impression they believe in their car, which is encouraging.

[paulguitar]

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

[paulguitar]

trumpton7291 said:

paulguitar said:

SV_WDC said:

Laughable suggesting tyre replacement with 4.5mm left!

Agreed. It rather brings into suspicion the OPC’s other advisories too..:

Having driven into standing water on the M4 and narrowly saving an aquaplane spin I would def suggest replacing tires early on these. 4.5mm is a bit bold however.

There was a thread about that by someone else who'd done the same in one of these. Slightly concerning.

3.5mm a sensible time to change, do you think?

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

Is that me?

I will keep saying it. Mid engined sports cars are the most susceptible to aquaplane. There are 4 ways to lower your chances

Speed
Tread depth
Tyre width
Type of tyre

I'm now running 215 fronts and 245 rears on mine.

I've read about more people getting into bother in these cars but not many start a thread about it so these incidents pass by quietly.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=17...

Yes, that's you.

Are there any particular tyres you suggest? And now much narrower are the ones you're running now than standard?

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

Are there any particular tyres you suggest? And now much narrower are the ones you're running now than standard?

All you can do is look at their wet weather rating. I didn't fit winter tyres to this car this year so didn't really drive it for around 3 months. The jury is still out on winter tyres being better than summers in standing water. I had fell for that when I went off. I had a set of winters off the car at the time. Some people truly believe a good summer tyre [based on some tests] is adequate regards aquaplane prevention. I'm less inclined to believe it. Although even in the middle of winter I am not concerned about aquaplaning if I am not going anywhere near a motorway.

I did pass by the same stretch where I aquaplaned just last week. Just before the services junction on the M61 near Chorley - South bound. If you zoom in on my pic above you will see the I sign ahead of me and then the services. I looked over at the III, II and I signs as I past by. II was missing altogether and I was bent. Its been over 5 years since I clipped one so I'd bet some more people have clipped them since. They told me in the services it was a common spot for cars going off in the rain.

The standard car comes with 235 / 265.

235 45 18 / 265 45 18
235 40 19 / 265 40 19
235 35 20 / 265 35 20

I was actually running a 285 35 19 when mine went off.

215 is the thinnest tyre available in 45 18. So I just added 30 to get a 245 45 18 for the rear. These go on the standard 18 wheels just fine - 8 inch front 9 inch rear - although I do have a few wheel rim nicks from curbs because the curb protectors cant quite cope with a little bit of a stretch.

When you put a 205 tyre next to a 235 tyre the difference looks massive. Comparing fronts here - 17 996 and 19 981 - pics below. It doesn't sound like a lot but I like to think of it like the extra width is all in the centre. If you look at the tyres below you will see the edges have lots of sideways slits. But the centres do not. That is common with most high performance summers. So if you take off say 100mm for the sides you are left with the rest as all centre. Now a reduction of 20mm in width becomes a difference between 100mm or 120mm from that centre section.

Some people believe aquaplaning starts with your fronts because these need to cut through the water and allow the rears to then follow easier. All I know is it felt like my car floated on all 4 corners. Steering wheel went light and everything went quiet - so no tyre roar for a brief moment. And if you think about it these mid engine cars have less weigh over the nose.

My 996 came with 225 40 fronts on 18 inch wheels. But I switched to the 17 setup which has a 205 50 front. Your mind thinks it will feel awful and the car will have no grip. But then you drive it and realise that is just ridiculous. You would find it difficult [on a road] to tell me the car doesn't have enough grip.

In fact I even went for run out in the hills with some other Boxster owners just after I fitted my new skinnier setup to the 981 - before the body was repaired and painted. I had a spell in number 2 spot. We stopped to allow everyone else to catch up. The leading man who knew the roads well said he had tried very hard to lose me but just couldn't. I dont consider myself a quick driver so I'm very happy with that. Although if I'm honest I dont think it was all down to Me. I actually think the softer passive damper and softer higher profile tyres setup was quicker on the day because these roads were quite bumpy. And I honestly believe that an average driver is quicker with softer suspension and higher profile squidgy tyres, but thats another conversation for another day and I have gone on for long enough already.

Very interesting, I really appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed answer.

[paulguitar]

Bullitt 1 said:

MitchT said:

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm currently looking for a BMW 440i, this lovely Cayman caught my eye...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202311304...

I'm not much of a Porsche expert so I don't know if these are affected by the bore scoring and IMS bearing issues that I've heard mentioned. Nor do I know how reliable the PDK and PASM systems are. At least this one doesn't appear to have PADM, which I'd consider a blessing!

I'll watch the thread with interest as I may yet be swayed by a nice 981!

That’s a lot of money for a 2.7

It's been on AutoTrader for 110 days...

[paulguitar]

Hol said:

Paul, I didn’t use him for my own purchase, but there’s a chap called Nick Giles who specialises in pre purchase inspections of Porsches, when you find a car that you really like

You can find him active on most Porsche FB pages, but in fairness, there are probably no guarantees he will identify a left field issue, but he should be able to look for common issues.

Thanks, Hol.


I am aware of Nick Gilles and had considered using him for this as he seems very reasonably priced. But I have been rather put off by the nightmare suffered with his service by Tame Racing Driver of this parish, and also his two Google reviews, both of them one star.


It's frustrating because, as I say, he is very reasonably priced and actually is located not too far at all from the car I am most interested in.

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

paulguitar said:

I have been rather put off by the nightmare suffered with his service by Tame Racing Driver of this parish

Where is the detail on Tame Racing Driver and the car he bought?

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=2037330

[paulguitar]

ATM said:

I bought some wheels for my BMW. The seller had only used them on his e36 M3 for 3 trackday sessions. They came with the used r888 tyres. I think they were a medium compound but cant be sure. So I bolted them on just to try it. The grip was insane. Made me laugh out loud. You could just turn the wheel and the car would turn at much higher speeds than you were used to. I was addicted. I even went out for some fun drives. It wasn't just the grip but the feedback too. Reasonable steering feel in a BMW estate. But then it rained and everything changed. The car was useless. So I get it. If you have never experienced grippy tyres like this on a simple road car then I'd say dont do it because you will be spoiled, forever.

The biggest shock is the first time trying slicks. Obviously, this can only be on a circuit, but wow!

And then, for full-on hilarity, slicks in the wet...

[paulguitar]

testdrive said:

A bit late but 2 pages later I'm not sure anyone actually answered your original question.

I wouldn't assume it's an over zealous OPC, tyres and discs perhaps but the exhaust leak is incredibly common and they will or have all suffered from it. As long as you take it anywhere but an OPC it's a low cost repair. Remove old studs and replace.

The oil leak is rare but on that basis I'd tell you it's not worth the risk or hassle. The colour combo is a personal choice, rare but ultimately undesirable for the vast majority of buyers.

I don't think an inspection or OPC warranty are essential on these cars they are generally one of the more reliable within the brand in recent years. As was said the drains need to be cleaned out on day 1.

Edited by testdrive on Thursday 21st March 21:59

Thanks for the reply.

I've been told a minor oil leak from there is an easy fix, do you think that's not the case?

[paulguitar]

testdrive said:

paulguitar said:

Thanks for the reply.

I've been told a minor oil leak from there is an easy fix, do you think that's not the case?

Depends what it is and who is paying ! Tough question for a guy on the internet to answer with certainty.

I've called a couple of Porsche indys to ask about this and neither thought it was a cause for particular concern. So I won't let it put me off the car.


I'd like to use it as a negotiating tool, but the seller is seemingly not for budging from his asking price.

[paulguitar]

981Boxess said:

paulguitar said:

I'd like to use it as a negotiating tool, but the seller is seemingly not for budging from his asking price.

Lovely looking car, really, and I see the £25k price being debated, but what is it (year/engine/miles/owners) if it is posted above I can't see it.

It's a 2012 'S'. Three owners, 62,000 miles. Full history which comprises five services, all at OPC. The last one was carried out in September 2022.

Options include:

PSE
Bose
Parking sensors front and rear
Extended leather package.
Heated seats and steering wheel
Dynamic lights
Satnav

[paulguitar]

elan362 said:

If the owner isn’t going to negotiate on price (which they are perfectly within their rights to do) You need to weigh up whether the car is good enough (overall) as is compared other cars on the market and whether you want to buy it or move on.

What are other similar cars on auto trader advertised for?
A Quick Look today shows 11 blue 2.7l 981 with prices ranging from £21k to £32k, with mileages from 18,000, to 100,000

So you need to make your call based on that - if you pass on it, how much would it cost to get a similar car elsewhere?

If it is already priced fairly, then if you make an insulting offer, the seller may decide not to sell it to you no matter what.

I don’t know what age the car is, but it could be 10-12 years old - and people have to accept that and that they are not buying a new car and there be I’ll be some age related issues and consumable items

Agreed.

It's a case for me of weighing it up against a couple of others I am looking at. There is a 2014 2.7 that is not quite as special in terms of trim/spec, but the mileage is lower (sub 50,000) and the seller is willing to negotiate. I reckon that could be had for £20k. It needs a major service and the tyres are from 2016, so need to factor that in.


There is also a competitively priced 'S' at Portiacraft:

https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/16175342

[paulguitar]

Ed.Neumann said:

Also, it has PASM and sound package plus.

That would be all I need to be honest.

The Portiacraft one?

I see mixed reviews for them, but I am surprised that that car has not sold yet.

Have you dealt with them, Ed?

[paulguitar]

Ed.Neumann said:

paulguitar said:

The Portiacraft one?

I see mixed reviews for them, but I am surprised that that car has not sold yet.

Have you dealt with them, Ed?

No, but I know people who have, All have been happy with the service and more importantly, after sales support.

I think they are just more realistically priced than some of the other indys, who often charge the same, if not more, than OPCs.

Good to know, thanks.

[paulguitar]

981Boxess said:

paulguitar said:

It's a 2012 'S'. Three owners, 62,000 miles. Full history which comprises five services, all at OPC. The last one was carried out in September 2022.

Options include:

PSE
Bose
Parking sensors front and rear
Extended leather package.
Heated seats and steering wheel
Dynamic lights
Satnav

It isn’t a colour combo I would have thought of choosing but in the pictures it looks really nice. I think the wheel is possibly a step too far for me, and I would be tempted to go to black to tone it down a little, but if it works for you that is what it is all about.

Has it got phone integration? Cruise is an easy retro fit if you want it. The recent OPC service may open up the factory warranty option, relatively cheap peace of mind.

I would rather have an ‘S’ if you have the choice, but again if a perfect spec/history non ‘S’ turned up I would not dismiss it. The mileage wouldn’t put me off on a car with the right servicing history.

I love the colour combo, I'd probably have specced a black dash and 'wheel but otherwise, that's my dream combination. It looks stunning in the flesh. Yes, it has 'phone integration, and if I get that one I will indeed have cruise control retrofitted.

I'm also looking at a 2.7 in a similar colour but with a standard interior (alcantara) and not many options, I think the seller of that one is far more open to negotiation on price.