More hype and plain silliness

[P50]

80 grand for a G50. Yes it's been well restored.

But why not buy a car that's never been knocked out thus had to be rebuilt in the first place if you're in this bracket?

I don't want "rust cut out", I don't want front seats retrimmed and I don't want a full engine rebuild.

A car can only be original once.

Each to their own but I'll take my rustproofed from new untouched G50 all day ta very much. You can't beat the smell of an original 80's 911 interior. Or the way the seats are factory trimmed to perfection.

Ho hum..

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C546064

[P50]

IMI A said:

I agree with the sentiment of restored vs unrestored but in a few years that may be a cheap car. Looks really very lovely. Has the OPs car been used or was it a garage queen?

Mine's done 85k miles but has been cherished. I use it every week.

I admit rare like this but 80k is ridiculous.

[P50]

BobToc said:

This one caught my eye in the add right below, perhaps not for the UK winter!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C355517#

That's value for a Speedster in today's market.

Maybe a "prominant" dealer will buy it and put it up for £195k

Seems you just pick a figure these days.

We are in pure bubble zone. Last time new cars traded for a profit prior to delivery (ie GT3/GT3 RS) then the whole thing epically imploded.

I could be wrong but silly prices are usually at the end of the tulip cycle..

[P50]

IMI A said:

Must have been a v.fastidious owner. Yours is a by far a better car than the restored car in my book as a purchase. TBH in the unlikely event I was ever offered £80k for my 3.2C I doubt I'd sell it. I just love the way it drives. Hats off to PS though as I think he may have found a very good niche bringing them back to as new condition. Even the odometer is back to zero. Not sure how I feel about that even though i realise its a nut and bolt restoration

Mine is exceptional. I was very lucky to get it. It sort of found me as I spotted it at a car show and discussed with the owner his position. I said I'd have it when the time comes to sell it and true to his word I got the email some time after. He is a prominent member of PCGB and the car was kept in a bone dry unit on carpet! Never been to bits. Never been messed with. It's a real joy to own and drive. Luckily it only has leather faced front seats. Porsche vinyl in superb! A full leather 3.2 Carrera doesn't wear very well at all. The dash leather shrinks in the sun. The rest of it tends to go off/fade/scuff and the car looks very shabby. Unless of course it's been cherished and done minimal miles. I suppose a sub 20k 3.2 Coupe on its factory paint etc may be in the 80 bracket.

We all like a specific era/model but mine is the G50. It is the last true 911. Honed to perfection after a quarter of a century. The Getrag box is the cherry on the top of the cake for me. Like you I'll never sell. So it matters not if my car is worth 10 grand!

I really didn't want a restored car. They're never the same. After a time a bubble will appear somewhere as once a car has rust you'll never utterly eradicate it.

I suppose easy for me to say with an original machine but they are out there. You'll have to pay nearer £50k for a G50 coupe in a nice hue but that's not £80k.

Horses for courses.

Edited by P50 on Monday 6th October 21:22

[P50]

cornershop said:

Lots of time/effort expended on the linked car by OP

Doesn't make 80k right but it's been done properly

http://www.ddk-online.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=2...

Can't deny that this is not a thorough job. Hats off to the man for doing it right. But who dictates that a rot box that's been welded up is worth way in excess of an original car that's never been "done"? Or is an original machine worth £100k?!!!

OK you may say "find me an original car". Well patience is a virtue and all good things to those who wait.

The dealer mantra of "fully restored" is a load of old cobblers for your mr average wet behind the ears new enthusiast.

Try that old spiel with say a Rolex double red and you'd be laughed out the game! Oh yes it has a replica face, hands and bezel insert as the originals were too far gone.

So tell me mr watch dealer, how much is an original double red with box/papers? Err about £30K. How much is this "restored" double red better than new? This one's £70k.

Why's that? Well it's been restored hasn't it!

This car is not investment grade at all. It's like all the other knackered cars that needed doing up. Yes the job is exemplary but aside from that it holds no attraction for someone who places originality above all else.

That is what you pay way in excess of for. Always have. Always will...

Edited by P50 on Saturday 11th October 08:24

Edited by P50 on Saturday 11th October 09:03

[P50]

cornershop said:

I guess 'unrestored' could be interpreted by some as 'with potential for money to be spent in the future'. As long as all the work is documented/evidenced and has been done by reputable outfits, I see the attraction of restored cars but not at 80k

I doubt my 3.2 was anyone near the condition of OP's car when i bought it for 12k in 2006, but since then i've spent:

£12k bodywork
£11k engine rebuild
£2000 suspension/brakes
£2500 interior incl seats

Excluding maintenance but including the initial outlay, its probably worth now what i've spent on it (and what its insured for)

So you've spent 27 odd grand on a 3.2 to get it sorted. Perfectly normal behaviour over a period of years especially if it's used as nature intended.

What would a 3.2 be worth needing the above as a project? 12-15k? So we're in the 50k area and we all know one rarely gets back ones outlay but such is life.

So you see yours at high 20's. That's not 79 grand though!

It all went pop in the early nineties and with the silly asking prices of late there gonna be much egg on face when music stop.

[P50]

And here we go again... £80k seems quite a fashionable figure these days for a G50 resto.

Take a rather leggy 144,000 mile late SSE coupe which I will suspect and per usual had a tired interior and commensurate worn out engine.

What shall we do with this old girl lads?! Chuck it on Ebay? Don't be silly. We'll make this one into an RSR rep as it's a wide body..

So blah blah blah speil speil speil, sprinkle it with magic dust (fibreglass magic dust that is!) and all of a sudden "shazaam" - it's an 80 grand car!!!

Until of course you want to chop it in. Then the brutal truth becomes horribly apparent and you are brutally kicked in the jacobs as it's not one thing or the other..!!

Also listed with 6407 miles! Because that's when the engine was rebuilt!! Err OK.

You gotta love artistic licence! So it seems you can polish a turd once it has been rolled in copious amounts of glitter!

Original Fuchs at the front! That's handy! For 80 large I wan't original Fuchs on the back if you don't mind!

Are we in full bubble mode or is this the new order?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 14th October 05:45

[P50]

IMI A said:

Something like this?



Sports seats, 66k miles, factory short shift, FSH 1989. Ex Hairpin car. Love it to bits

Yes this is the sort of thing that should command a meaty premium over a 100k mile plus car with X owners and plenty of paint

A lovely thing! I bet it wasn't cheap from Hairpin when you bought it pro-rata but may seem value today...

[P50]

labrit said:

P50 said:

And here we go again... £80k seems quite a fashionable figure these days for a G50 resto.

Take a rather leggy 144,000 mile late SSE coupe which I will suspect and per usual had a tired interior and commensurate worn out engine.

What shall we do with this old girl lads?! Chuck it on Ebay? Don't be silly. We'll make this one into an RSR rep as it's a wide body..

So blah blah blah speil speil speil, sprinkle it with magic dust (fibreglass magic dust that is!) and all of a sudden "shazaam" - it's an 80 grand car!!!

Until of course you want to chop it in. Then the brutal truth becomes horribly apparent and you are brutally kicked in the jacobs as it's not one thing or the other..!!

Also listed with 6407 miles! Because that's when the engine was rebuilt!! Err OK.

You gotta love artistic licence! So it seems you can polish a turd once it has been rolled in copious amounts of glitter!

Original Fuchs at the front! That's handy! For 80 large I wan't original Fuchs on the back if you don't mind!

Are we in full bubble mode or is this the new order?

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

Edited by P50 on Tuesday 14th October 05:45

The car is mine and had a hell of a lot of work which will be appreciated by some, not by others as pointed out by your comments. It's a usable and completed project that has had no expense spared and would cost far more than 80k to replicate. It's just come back from Porsche 9 Excellence where it had a full engine and transmission out refresh, new oil cooler, tank, fuel pump, hoses, clips, heat exchangers etc etc etc.

In regards to the wheels perhaps take the time to think how difficult it is to find original Fuchs that have not been through copious amounts of heat cycles that can reduce the strength of the wheel. I was informed the fronts were fine and that the rears were better off being Braid which are TUV certified.

It's quite simple - if someone loves the look, sound and feel of the car they will pay the money for it. Clearly your'e an angry chap who knows more than everyone else, i hope you slagging it off made you feel like King Kong in your little world. Or perhaps i'm wrong and you're just a miserable git without the dosh to buy what they want.

Edited by labrit on Tuesday 14th October 23:04

"Or perhaps i'm wrong and you're just a miserable git without the dosh to buy what they want".

Sorry?

I think your car is very nice visually.

I could not care less what it owes you. I do however think it's a 144,000 mile SSE which is NOT worth 80 grand. Or at least to me.

How on earth do you arrive at that figure anyway? I'm sorry but for the price asked I would expect rear Fuchs heat cycles or not. Why didn't you buy new?

You are symptomatic of the chancers who are hyping the market with unremarkable messed with machines.

[P50]

labrit said:

The difference between us is that i don't care what it owes me either. Like i said - you're a miserable git that clearly can't afford the car they want, hence the thread.

Whoever buys your bastardised abortion of a Porsche deserves what they get.

I could buy your car in a blink of an eye but wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.


My 3.2 cost a lot less than your "thing" and is original throughout. I'm simply tired of seeing old junk being priced way in excess of grade A machines.

A short while back old nasty 3.2's were converted into lookalikes as their value was paltry. Noone would mess up a really nice car so its not hard to do the maths is it?

[P50]

I think a G50 Coupe SSE with 75K miles un-welded/original good leather etc is say £40k +- IMPHO in today’s market.

A 140k mile SSE with lots of “patina” one must assume is comfortably less sold as seen. Perhaps 20k if it needs an engine rebuild/trim/bodywork. So I am simply struggling to understand that fitting a set of IROC bumpers elevates its value to £80k together with remedial work it needs anyway to get a half decent price.

The owner is understandably getting irked by my analysis of this situation and as has resorted to insulting me.

This is a public forum and one is free to air ones views is one not?! I’ve seen a hyped market before and I’m seeing it all again…

[P50]

IMI A said:

vpr said:

Mine for sale here

Think it's looking value tbh

http://www.charmansautomotive.co.uk/showroom/62/po...

looks superb and superb value

Now this is where I'd put my hard earned.

[P50]

pork911 said:

P50 your original point in difference in values gets a little lost with the ego.

Anyhow, so original that yours is (though I don't think you've owned it from new) how much rust do you think it has?

none - ziebarted and garaged from new. i've been over it with a fine tooth comb. even has the paper barcode sticker on the N/S door shut.

1st owner was an old bloke who owned an engineering business in the north

which is why it's not red with red wheels/linen piped red. quite an unfashionable spec in '88

[P50]

david hockney said:

The problem is hardly anyone with a good condition average mileage 3.2, 964, 993 is selling for 20 to 30k-
supply and demand !

Totally agree.

I was holding the folding for at least a year to get into a proper A1 G50 coupe.

The really good stuff is simply not coming up. Sellers market bubble or not.

When I picked mine up the seller offered me a number of a desperate chap who would give me a meaty profit on mine.

I didn't buy it to flip so declined. I bought it to keep.

So if everyone who owns a corker is on my wavelength you do the math...

[P50]

Here's a lovely old thing if you're utterly devoid of class and style.

Somebody please buy it and crush it!!

I suppose you could play a bit of Frankie goes to Hollywood ,carry around a brick phone for a bet and get out of this outside a flash club in Mayfair!! Women with perms and lycra minis will be falling at your feet!

To quote Uncle Monty - "it must die it must die"..!!!


http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...

omfg.

Edited by P50 on Saturday 8th November 13:13

Edited by P50 on Saturday 8th November 13:14

[P50]

ChrisW. said:

I find this interesting, it's sometimes really difficult on the margin to say what we do like.

But this also looks a shocker to me

On the other hand, maybe she goes like a train ??

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder ..



My wife would prefer to see me in an AM Vantage rather than this --- but this gives me the hots !

Nowt wrong with this. It's a works homologation weapon....

[P50]

Another gift of a machine for the connoisseur.....


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271654016194?_trksid=p20...

[P50]

IMI A said:

You being ironic? looks a nice car to be fair.

60k?! oh come on...

[P50]

g7jhp said:

Putting it into context I've had two 3.2 Carrera, I swapped my first for a 993 C4 and immediately missed the rawer feel. When I saw they are more agricultural it in context to newer modern day cars which are easy to jump in and drive.

When I got my second 3.2 Carrera I actually had it all new suspension and set-up by JZM and a number of people commented on how it was one of the nicest 3.2's they'd driven including Steve Winter at Jaz (who used to service it for me). They are heavier in both steering and brakes and when well set-up are a pleasure but I did go on to use it as a daily drive for 7 years in all weathers.

On a couple of occasions friends drove my 3.2 Carrera they we're surprised by the effort it took to drive.

Cars are like politics. Everyone has their own opinion.

Why is the S1 E type worth so much? because the purists will pay for the undiluted concept. The first. The best.

The Mk1 GTI is another great that evolution knocked the raw precise corners off.

Even the Fiat 500 lost a bit of its cheeky charm with safety back lights and non suicide doors.

You either love the original 911 and thus appreciate that the G50 was the very zenith of the original concept or you think its an agricultural horrid lethal car with little in the way of creature comforts.

My last daily driver 911 was in '98. It was a '88 G50 coupe. I had nothing to gauge it to as the 996 had just been released. The 964's were bad news through dropping oil and the 993's were simply new cars.

16 years later it's all plain to see. The 996 is/was a disaster. Yes Porsche sold them in their thousands but the very essence of air cooled Porsche had gone.

Save the RS/GT models the post '98 911 is like any other eurobox. I freely admit I'm a luddite and utterly adore the rawness of the G50. What's not to like?! They are finely honed German hewn from granite instrument of the old school. From the smell of the interior to the whine of the fan. The way the engine vibrates the whole car at idle. That iconic dash. The superlative build quality. The styling. The edgy handling and sublime steering feedback. The Getrag 'box is the cherry on the top of a 5 tier wedding cake!

I generally have no enthusiasm for post '89 911's. It's a free country after all!

Now are the prices of the og 911 going up through purists appreciating what they are?

Or is it speculators getting into some kind of ponzi/pyramid scheme as .5% interest rates mean mr "i've got a few quid" needs somewhere to put it?!

I've seen this hyped market before and I know what the end result was....

Edited by P50 on Friday 21st November 04:54

[P50]

g7jhp said:

P50 I agree with many of your points.

I love the G50 3.2 and the raw agricultural feel, although I wouldn't use it as my only daily again.

I also appreciate my 996 turbo and other 911 derivatives for what they do so well.

The SC and 964 were relatively unloved in the not so distant past, I believe the 996 will actually come to be appreciated in years to come - a standard manual 996.2 C2 coupe.

Stranger things have happened.

The 996 is still a 911 IMS malarky and all.

Time will tell but I concede they're value...