Model S 90D - high mileage, range, depreciation & other bits
Discussion
I'm considering buying a Tesla Model S 90D and need clarity in a few areas. It will be my car and not a company car.
My weekly work journeys are as follows:
Journey 1: London to Birmingham - Approx 240 mile return journey.
Journey 2: London to Evesham - Approx 250 mile return journey.
Journey 3: London to Newbury - Approx 140 mile return journey.
Journey 4: London to Leicester - Approx 200 mile return journey.
Total = 830 miles/wk.
For clarity, I do return home after each day so am able to charge the battery overnight.
The 90D claims to have a 330 mile range. I would opt for the +6% range upgrade = 350 mile (claimed) range in total. The salesman mentioned the real world figure for is closer to 270 miles. Adding 6% to that means I should expect 286 miles per full charge. (That said, thinking about it now, I'm not sure if he meant 270 miles including the upgrade. Will ask him for clarification.) Most of my miles are on the motorways at approx 70(ish)mph. Is it safe to assume a 286 mile range assuming normal motorway driving for most of the miles? Or would it be less?
If I have to stop to charge her up again, it wouldn't be a problem. I've looked at the supercharger options and there are supercharges on the M1 (Northampton) and M40 (Oxford) so in an emergency, I would be able to stop and charge the car without going out of my way or having to reroute my journey. Obviously it would be better if I could simply charge the battery every night at home and not have to stop at services, hence the above query about range. (The Journey to Newbury isn't a concern.)
This would be my first EV so I'm unsure of the rules regarding claiming mileage. Presumably it is the same as petrol/diesel cars?
I've also read passengers travelling with you (if work related travel) can also be claimed for at 5p/mile. Is this true? Presumably one would simply charge 50p/mile for the relevant journeys or are there specific forms to fill in for this?
Assuming approx 40k miles/yr, would it be better to sell/return the car after 2 years or 3 years. At 2 years, it will have 80k miles and potentially be a bargain for someone and as it's under 100k miles, it'll be easier to move on than a 3 year old car with 120k miles. Your thoughts? (I haven't decided if I will buy or lease the care yet.)
How do people find the rear seats? They looked pretty flat. Are the comfortable for journeys up to 1 hr? (I won't be using them but the family would so just curious.)
If anyone else here does high miles in a Tesla, please let me know how you find it.
Thanks in advance for any replies...
My weekly work journeys are as follows:
Journey 1: London to Birmingham - Approx 240 mile return journey.
Journey 2: London to Evesham - Approx 250 mile return journey.
Journey 3: London to Newbury - Approx 140 mile return journey.
Journey 4: London to Leicester - Approx 200 mile return journey.
Total = 830 miles/wk.
For clarity, I do return home after each day so am able to charge the battery overnight.
The 90D claims to have a 330 mile range. I would opt for the +6% range upgrade = 350 mile (claimed) range in total. The salesman mentioned the real world figure for is closer to 270 miles. Adding 6% to that means I should expect 286 miles per full charge. (That said, thinking about it now, I'm not sure if he meant 270 miles including the upgrade. Will ask him for clarification.) Most of my miles are on the motorways at approx 70(ish)mph. Is it safe to assume a 286 mile range assuming normal motorway driving for most of the miles? Or would it be less?
If I have to stop to charge her up again, it wouldn't be a problem. I've looked at the supercharger options and there are supercharges on the M1 (Northampton) and M40 (Oxford) so in an emergency, I would be able to stop and charge the car without going out of my way or having to reroute my journey. Obviously it would be better if I could simply charge the battery every night at home and not have to stop at services, hence the above query about range. (The Journey to Newbury isn't a concern.)
This would be my first EV so I'm unsure of the rules regarding claiming mileage. Presumably it is the same as petrol/diesel cars?
I've also read passengers travelling with you (if work related travel) can also be claimed for at 5p/mile. Is this true? Presumably one would simply charge 50p/mile for the relevant journeys or are there specific forms to fill in for this?
Assuming approx 40k miles/yr, would it be better to sell/return the car after 2 years or 3 years. At 2 years, it will have 80k miles and potentially be a bargain for someone and as it's under 100k miles, it'll be easier to move on than a 3 year old car with 120k miles. Your thoughts? (I haven't decided if I will buy or lease the care yet.)
How do people find the rear seats? They looked pretty flat. Are the comfortable for journeys up to 1 hr? (I won't be using them but the family would so just curious.)
If anyone else here does high miles in a Tesla, please let me know how you find it.
Thanks in advance for any replies...
REALIST123 said:
Tesla rep told me the real world range for a 90 was about 250 miles so perhaps the 270 is with the upgrade?
However, with those miles it would still seem an expensive way to travel, wouldn't the train be easier and cheaper?
EVS of any type seem best suited to regular short (ish) commutes rather than high mileage, but you know your routine better than I do.
Appreciate your points but then I prefer travelling by car.However, with those miles it would still seem an expensive way to travel, wouldn't the train be easier and cheaper?
EVS of any type seem best suited to regular short (ish) commutes rather than high mileage, but you know your routine better than I do.
Would be good to hear feedback from others with a 90D regarding real world mileage from their motorway journeys.
johnnyreggae said:
No: my recollection is there was zero allowance for EV but it was updated this autumn http://evfleetworld.co.uk/news/2015/Sep/HMRC-clari...
The link quotes..."But, she told delegates Approved Mileage Allowance Payments (AMAP) used to reimburse business mileage clocked up by employees in their own vehicle applied to any car or van and were not fuel dependent."
I will own the car personally. It will not be a company car. So when using the car for business mileage, the above applies to me. Hence I would be able to claim @ 45p/mile. Or am I reading this missing something?
ORD said:
EVs all return lower mileage at high speed, don't they? 70ish would count as a high speed for these purposes. Doubt you would reliably get to Bham and back.
In which case I would have to revisit the idea altogether. 
Will ask if I can borrow the car for a test drive to B'ham and back. Hopefully they will oblige.
Fastdruid said:
Correct however they are only advisory rates. Your company does not have to pay the full 45p.
Ours for example only pays 40p under such circumstances and HMRC company car rates for people with car allowances (which legally are still private vehicles).
You can claim tax relief on the difference using form P87 - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-...
As this is tax relief however if you were say to do 10k of business miles and were paid 40p you'd lose out on £500 but (if you're a lower rate tax payer) you'd only get £100 back [(45p-40p)*10k*20%]
In theory you can claim an extra 5p per person per mile for anyone taken in the car however I found in reality you struggle unless your company is on-board, there is no provision for it on form P87 and so unless you are regularly carting multiple people round probably not worth it for the small amount extra.
The company does pay 45p/mile. Shouldn't be a problem claiming the 5p from the company for the passenger either. Ours for example only pays 40p under such circumstances and HMRC company car rates for people with car allowances (which legally are still private vehicles).
You can claim tax relief on the difference using form P87 - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/income-...
As this is tax relief however if you were say to do 10k of business miles and were paid 40p you'd lose out on £500 but (if you're a lower rate tax payer) you'd only get £100 back [(45p-40p)*10k*20%]
In theory you can claim an extra 5p per person per mile for anyone taken in the car however I found in reality you struggle unless your company is on-board, there is no provision for it on form P87 and so unless you are regularly carting multiple people round probably not worth it for the small amount extra.
Thanks for your thoughts JonV8V and Mr_Tony. I completely agree that getting 4 mile range /hr is completely and utterly useless! Unless you only drive the car on weekends I suppose?
I'm hoping to speak with one of the Tesla partner companies regarding installing a charger at home which would mean the car can charge overnight in 8-10 hours assuming battery is completely depleted. (Charging times quoted here are what the salesman advised. Let me know if these are unrealistic)
Assuming a full charge overnight, the journey to Leicester and Newbury shouldn't (in theory) be a problem. I need to look closer at the journeys to Birmingham.
Out of interest, assuming it was you completing the journey from London to Birmingham, would you stop to charge en route to Birmingham at at Oxford services (roughly 50 miles into the journey) or on the return leg (approx 180 miles into the journey)? Suppose the danger with charging on the return leg is if the charger isn't working!!!
I'm hoping to speak with one of the Tesla partner companies regarding installing a charger at home which would mean the car can charge overnight in 8-10 hours assuming battery is completely depleted. (Charging times quoted here are what the salesman advised. Let me know if these are unrealistic)
Assuming a full charge overnight, the journey to Leicester and Newbury shouldn't (in theory) be a problem. I need to look closer at the journeys to Birmingham.
Out of interest, assuming it was you completing the journey from London to Birmingham, would you stop to charge en route to Birmingham at at Oxford services (roughly 50 miles into the journey) or on the return leg (approx 180 miles into the journey)? Suppose the danger with charging on the return leg is if the charger isn't working!!!
mr_tony said:
You are right - A 32a line will work. The OP will need 100% charge to have any hope of doing the mileage suggested so the most powerful charging option would seem to be the smartest maybe..
The point still stands that if this isn't going to work for you then you are stuck with 4/mph from a 13a socket which makes the Tesla nothing more than an amusing ornament.
For some folks a 32a line is an easy wiring job. Not for everyone though - it's something you have to factor in. For me the cost of getting power to where I want it will be around the same cost as the car itself....
Quite right. I can't go much further with this unless I can get a suitable charging point installed. The point still stands that if this isn't going to work for you then you are stuck with 4/mph from a 13a socket which makes the Tesla nothing more than an amusing ornament.
For some folks a 32a line is an easy wiring job. Not for everyone though - it's something you have to factor in. For me the cost of getting power to where I want it will be around the same cost as the car itself....
I have a theoretical answer my problem. Install a charger at every site. (I/My companies own the sites I travel to so this isn't a big deal.) This is obviously cost dependant. But in theory, if I can charge overnight and whilst at each site, I should be OK. I'm typically on site for at least 3 hours. Usually more.
Not sure why I didn't think of that before?!
Naturally this depends on having a suitable charger installed at each site which will recharge the battery sufficiently for me to get home. The superchargers at the services would be the backup in case of an emergency.
Not sure why I didn't think of that before?!
Naturally this depends on having a suitable charger installed at each site which will recharge the battery sufficiently for me to get home. The superchargers at the services would be the backup in case of an emergency.
Edited by aporschefan on Saturday 2nd January 02:35
aporschefan said:
Install a charger at every site.
Assuming this is possible and affordable, I could save £2.6k by not specifying the Range Upgrade. Or would you suggest specifying it anyway? Thinking about it, the range upgrade is an additional 6% best case, in the real world this may be 4 or 5%? Even at 6% (assuming real world figure of 250 miles from the 85D), that gives 265 miles, an additional 15 miles at best per full charge. That's not a lot for £2.6k. It makes sense to save the money on the upgrade and put it towards installing charger at each site. Doesn't it?
Your thoughts?
JonV8V said:
Where do get your timings from? Longest is 250 mile trip, needs a 50 mile top up if he can't charge at his destinations which he may be able to do, and at 200mph+ charging that's 15 mins while he gets a coffee.
I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
TBH, ignoring the numbers issue, I agree somewhat with the point ODR is making. That said, and as you've already pointed out, I'm able to install chargers at each site so it's not an issue. I even make that more than the minimum wage in terms of free travel while charging
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