Insigna CDTI 160 v Mondeo TDCI v Passat Bluemotion

[greenarrow]

Continuing my research into a possible family/work car to soak up my new 190 mile round trip (2x a week) commute....fancy a recentish car, max price £7-8K....

These three seem to be good choices, not exciting, but will soak up the miles. Just after feedback from owners and interested in what has gone wrong and what MPG you get on a cruise. Mondeo would be a Mk4 facelifted model, TDCI 140 or 163, the Insigna, 2011/12 preferably SRI model and for my budget I could just about get a B7 (2011 onwards) Passat with the 140 TDI Bluemotion engine.

Quite fancy an auto, so anyone who has owned an auto version of these cars, what was it like.

I'll be honest, I've always found the Insignia to be an attractive car and to offer an awful lot of metal for the money, £7K will get you into a four year old eco flex 163 engined car with £30 per year road tax (for the manual)...just the reliability stories worry me.

[greenarrow]

Jimbo_888 said:

Ive had 3 Elites Nav's (160 CDTI) over the past 5 years, approx 250k miles. No probs to write home about apart from sticking rear calipers. 20k miles service intervals. Easy on tyres. Fully loaded specification. Dont always believe what you read online. Some people are just anti-vauxhall. Ive had Vauxhall Company Cars and Vans for the past 15 years and all been very reliable.

Thanks for that feedback...

Wow, only one person on Pistonheads has run an Insignia/Mk4 Mondeo or B7 Passat...I really had no idea that they were so unpopular amongst petrolheads!!!

[greenarrow]

Pacman1978 said:

Op can I ask, did you consider/discount the Avensis?

The Avensis seems seldom mentioned anywhere on PH. Is there any particular reason for that?

The Avensis in my budget would be the 2.2 diesel late 2000s....I think it looks very bland indeed and isn't trouble free. Know two people who had D4D Avensis who had huge bills. One had the gearbox go at 80,000 miles...£800 bill. Other one the turbo went think, making it uneconomic to repair....

The three cars I have listed are the quintessential popular larger family saloons and very popular, so plenty to choose from. Personally I like the Mazda 6 having owned one for nearly 3 years, but the "rising diesel level" on the 2.2 puts me off it a bit.

[greenarrow]

Glasgowrob said:

Mondeo for me. Just parted company with my mk4 with over 300k on the clock, nothing fancy just a 2l tdci 140 zetec. Mapped to 200 bhp/325lbs ft torque and driven hard every single day of my ownership

The bloody thing could not be broken. Only thing I did was service it every 10k and replace consumables
Still going strong even now with her new owner on the original clutch flywheel turbo injectors etc.

Comfy big barge and probably the best handling of your 3 options the mk4 Mondy is a decent chassis and to be honest I prefer the mk4 to my current mk5

Top tips ignore mileage and save a few quid and service regularly with a good quality oil. The Peugeot diesels are notorious for disliking cheap oil and drive it hard. Biggest problem with all modem diesels is people poodle round town and plod up and down the motorway in 6th let them stretch their legs and open up now and then. Not a great fan of fords autos mind you and personally I'd suggest a manual. But there's worse gearboxes out there. Just don't listen to the idiots that tell you the autoboxes don't need services. Fluid change every 50k.


Other considerations

Late model saabs which share lots with the insignia and have a nose at the avensis as well dull but again bloody bulletproof

Just out of interest, was yours a pre or post facelift model. I am led to believe the bugs which blighted early MK4s had been ironed out by the facelift of 2010. More economical too I believe, with lower VED.

[greenarrow]

mclwanB said:

greenarrow said:

The Avensis in my budget would be the 2.2 diesel late 2000s....I think it looks very bland indeed and isn't trouble free. Know two people who had D4D Avensis who had huge bills. One had the gearbox go at 80,000 miles...£800 bill. Other one the turbo went think, making it uneconomic to repair....

The three cars I have listed are the quintessential popular larger family saloons and very popular, so plenty to choose from. Personally I like the Mazda 6 having owned one for nearly 3 years, but the "rising diesel level" on the 2.2 puts me off it a bit.

800£ for a gearbox is ridiculouslying cheap. When my VAG group octavia's went at 105k it was £4000 (including clutch and flywheel)

Edited by mclwanB on Sunday 31st July 22:36

My friend got a second hand reconditioned unit, he couldn't afford a new box!

So, the Mk4 Mondeo gets a lot of love. Good to hear. Potentially less troublesome than an Insignia or a Passat too...although I think the B7 Passat has a good rep.

Next q, is the 163 worth it over the normal 140? Its just there are so few 163s about and they fetch a premium.

Seen a 140 TDI Edge advertised today on Autotrader, its a 13 Reg car, 75K motorways miles for £6495...a good price, but I think the edge lacks a lot of toys and those wheels look too small for the arches!

Going to have a look at Passats, Insignias and Mondeos, maybe a few other choices and take it from there...

[greenarrow]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd look for the best spec/mileage balance to be honest:

62 Zetec Business 63k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

09 Titanium X 55k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

59 Titanium X 63k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

Auto 58 Titanium X 48k
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2016...

I wish I could find cars at this price with this mileage down south! I assume you live near Manchester? Working away from home I have to look fairly locally at the weekend and in my area, £7.5K buys you a 2011/2012 car with 70K miles on it!!

[greenarrow]

Jasandjules said:

Howard- said:

The Passat is too expensive for what it is, overrated and poorly equipped and generally about as exciting as a house brick.

Poorly equipped? I have Traction Control, Cruise Control, automatic lights, automatic wipers, automatic dimming rear view mirror, heated wing mirrors, independant climate control, sat nav, front and rear parking sensors, front fogs, electric seats....

What other kit do you need?

She also has 170 bhp and 0-60 in less than 8 seconds... Not too bad and certainly enough to get an overtake done, yet returns 50mpg...

Actually you make a very good point. My search on line this weekend indicates that a Mondeo isn't actually all that much cheaper than a Passat and the more recent passats are fairly well equipped. Example, local dealer has a 2013 (63 reg) Techline Passat B7 (top of the range) for sale, with 90,000 miles on it, for £8300. Meanwhile I found a 2013 (13 reg) Mondeo Zetec, 78,500 miles in another car supermarket near London for £8000...so really not a huge amount of difference and I can only put this down to the slow down in sales of Mondeos in recent years, compared with a lot of B7 Passats being sold. Late model MK4 Mondeos aren't actually the bargains I thought they would be.

The Insignia on the other hand is a bit cheaper....

[greenarrow]

Guys, bit concerned the 163 model is so much thistier than the 140? What would a 163 do on, say a 70-75 2 hour motorway cruise (which is what my work journey is made up of now)..

Mulling over going to visit a 163 Titanium X up for sale near me. Owner has just reduced price a second time to £5995 and its a facelift 60 plate car with 89K on clock.... seems a lot of high spec car for the money....

[greenarrow]

BUMP** Update**

In the end I held onto my 2005 Mazda 6 2.0 TS, as it was running so sweetly at 130K miles, never went wrong etc, that for a twice a week 95 mile each commute it wasn't worth changing it. However, a new contract looms, Bournemouth area to Reading, every day potentially, so I am back looking for a comfy diesel...

Vauxhall currently have 0% finance on USED cars, so I can get a 2011 Insigia for about £7K and spread the cost out.

Alternatively, I am really drawn to a few 2008/9 Mondeo TDCI Titanium X's I have seen! They're around £4K with 100K miles and you get loads of kit. Having seen a 2008 model advertised locally with 260K miles on it, they clearly can take the miles. I cant help thinking these would be brilliant at soaking up the miles and also double up as a great family wagon....

The 2007/8 Passat can be had for similar money, but opinion is divided on the reliability of the PD engines....

Questions really..is it risky buying a 100K mile example, or even the 160K one I saw for £2495? What tends to fall off, go wrong at the 100K mark? Does the suspension hold up ok. I am thinking that an older car is maybe better, because I will be putting around 2500 miles a month on it up and down motorway which would kill the residual value of a newer car.

That said, last weekend got tempted by a 2016 Insignia 2.0 CDTI 140 Energy. £11500, 10K miles, basically half price for an ex-demo car....it sold after one day!

So, as ever, any advice from you guys is welcome!!

Edited by greenarrow on Thursday 2nd February 09:29

[greenarrow]

ZX10R NIN said:

The Mondeo is a good choice our 2.2 Titanium X Sport pool car is well past 160k & wearing well, I'm not sure where you are in the country but if you don't mind travelling you can gat a lower mileage Mondeo for you outlay.

2008 Mondeo Titanium X 53k FSH

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

As above but an Estate 48k

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

2009 Insignia SRI 160bhp 43k
not as well spec'd as the Ford's which for me would make a difference when doing 20k+ per year

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

Are the Insignia's on offer are newer & lower mileage than the above then they may be worth a look especially with 0% finance but I'd rather keep the 2-3k saving in my pocket.

The closer you are to 100k+ miles the more suspension components will be closer to wearing out but as you can see you can buy a low mileage car as it get around 100k sell/trade it in for another with around 50k on the clock & repeat the process.

Two of those cars are petrol unfortunately, which is no good. I may as well keep my current n/a 2 litre Mazda 6 rather than trade for Mondeo with the same engine!

Insignia is a good price. I am in Bournemouth area and sadly nothing like that mileage or price anywhere local!!!

However, re suspension, my feeling is that if you buy a car where there are no suspension advisories on the MOT, even if it has 100K miles on it, the motorway mileage I am doing is unlikely to stress it too much further? Would that be fair? My experience is that the dampers themselves are still pretty good well past 100,000, its stuff like bushes that wear out and cause soggy handling.

I changed the front dampers on My Mazda 6 just before Christmas, to see what difference it would make. The car had done 128K miles at the time. Truth be told, it hasn't really made that much difference. More control on fast roundabouts, but now I have a little more understeer in tight turns, as the front end is stiffer than it was!

[greenarrow]

daemon said:

ZX10R NIN said:

Ours is a 2010 model, no idea why petrols came up on my search sorry about that.

2007 Titanium X 2.0D 79k

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

same as the above

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2017...

With regards to the suspension I was talking about bushes etc as you said dampers will still be okay depending on useage. That Insignia is around 90-120 minutes away from you & is surely worth a look if you can't find anything close to it.

Is that 2.0TDCI engine not the one with injectors that cost a fortune to replace when they go wrong?

Not that Insignias are without their faults - DMFs are a common failure for one thing.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is the Mk3 TDCI that is better known for injection failures, along with pretty much guaranteed DMF failure at any point beyond 80K miles and also problematic EGR valves. I think the Mk4 uses a PSA engine and on the whole has been more reliable (so far) than the Mk3 became, as the miles mounted up.

Since travelling many miles only to be disappointed by poorly described cars some years ago when changing my car, I try to look within a 10-25 mile radius for a car these days. That Insignia DOES look promising and is almost suspiciously cheap tbh, for the mileage - but its a fair trip and a four door as well I think. I don't see the point of hatchbacks which have been designed as such and then sold as a four door! Also (and I maybe ultra fussy here) the MOT history doesn't give the impression that the car has particularly been cared for by its owners!!!

Edited by greenarrow on Thursday 2nd February 18:19

[greenarrow]

ZX10R NIN said:

The Mazda is supposed to have timing chain problems in truth it depends on the car & how it's been treated the injectors are around £150 each, forgot to say OP ours is a 2.2 model.

Yeah, the Mk2 diesel has timing chain issues and I wouldn't buy one unless it had been done. I have a petrol mk1 and I've never heard of a timing chain snap on a Mk1.

I'd quite like a 2.2 diesel Mondeo, but they do fetch a premium and tbh I don't value the extra poke that much to pay the extra £1000 or so they fetch, year on year over a humble 140 TDI.

Actually talking of 2.2 diesels there's a late model Mk3 for sale near me with only 60,000 miles. Trader wants £3495 for it, which is strong money for a Mk3, but the MOT history is good. I am just not sure I would risk one if its still on original clutch and DMF!! Also, they are starting to look and sound dated, where as the Mk4 still seems a reasonably fresh car with better refinement. All IMHO obviously! Thanks for your help!

[greenarrow]

A Citroen C5 appeals in some ways as being different. However, I need a reliable daily driver for my commute; As a Contractor I don't get paid if I take time off and therefore putting aside money for the inevitable "days off road" isn't really a starter! Not to say a Mondeo wont go wrong, but the evidence of people on my thread suggests you'd be unlucky to get a really bad one.

Returning to the Mondeo. Another Q. For the same money, would you go pre 2010 facelift, but higher spec Titanium X with toys, or the newer car, say a 2010 Zetec with similar miles..?

I am not really that clued up on what changed with the mid life refresh, other than on paper fuel efficiency and lower Co2 ratings from 2010 on....

My feeling is the higher spec comfier car might be preferable for big miles.....

[greenarrow]

PaulV said:

I have a 2008 Mondeo 2.2 TitX (with nav)
Just passed 150k this week, had it four years now since 90k.

Newbury to Reading J11 daily, plus assorted longer runs.

So far:-
New rear bushes }
Turbo oil feed pipe replaced (smokey regens - turbo off job) } £600
Intercooler -> intake pipe split (£40 new one)
Cam belt £200 (10y / 125k)

I do an oil/filter change every 10k, fuel filter every 20k.

Other than tyres and brakes, nothing much goes wrong other than the steering buttons don't always work.

Get around 40mph

Is a good car.

So probably about £1000-£1200 in replacement parts in 4 years and 60,000 miles is pretty good and I doubt its depreciated massively in that time...Certainly cheaper than leasing.....

A 2.2 Titanium X close to me popped up on Gumtree yesterday, seller wants £4700 and its on 88000 miles I think. Tempted to go and have a look. MOT history is very good, only one advisory I think in its entire history....will need a cambelt next year however as 2008 model.

Can someone confirm for me please, is the 2.0 TDCI cam belt or chain? I seem to get conflicting info on the 'net.

[Bezza48]

Further update**

Today I took a decent test drive in my neighbour's Insignia CDTI 160 SRI Nav. She is getting a new company car and has offered me her old one, hopefully at trade in value. As a one owner car which has simply chugged up and down the M27/M3 all its life I'd rather go for one where I know the owner and the history than take a punt on an unknown car. Its the first Insignia I've even driven and only the second Vauxhall in about 10 years and I have to say I quite liked it. The SRI has different seats to the other models, very supportive with good bolsters and my wife who needs good lumbar support for a back condition was very comfortable. Ok, the engine sounds very agricultural and as with most TDIs feels sluggish off the line, but its got good punch where you want it. The ride seems fine to me on 18s, coming from a 2005 Mazda 6. As for handling, someone on another PH thread somewhere suggested that the Insignia is dangerously understeery but it seemed alright to me.

More impressively, it feels absolutely tight as a drum with 83,000 miles on it. No knocks from the suspension, no slop, no creaks. None of the trim feels loose and the doors shut with a nice thunk. No stone chips either, unlike my Mazda which has awful paint quality. I can only surmise that Vauxhall indeed got its act together after the 2009 batch of cars.

I really should have a drive in a Mondeo so I can compare, but TBH at the likely price I will pay for this 2011/61 car, I will probably just go for it, assuming the Company are happy to sell it to me, rather than trade it in. I start a new job tomorrow in Reading, travelling from nr Bournemouth and I think this Insignia will do the job very well.