Jcw mini worth less than pcp final payment half term?
Discussion
Hi wise ph'ers! Long time lurker but I have a topic for those who know about pcp deals.
We have a pristine Mini JCW coupe, 2012 61, 46k full mini history etc. Loaded with nearly every option as an ex showroom car, h/k, lounge leather, media xl, chilli..
Im 24-25 months into a 48 month pcp contract with Bmw financial services, and was looking to change up to an m140i.
Speaking over the phone to sales before going in nobody thought it would be any issue and that I would be able to get out of the mini relatively unscathed, and get a good deal on the m140i (£337 deposit and £337 p/m 8k miles).
Test driven the m140i, and I can see what all the hype is about, got back after the test drive and down to some figures.
They offered me 6.5k for the mini, we bought it for over 16k two years ago with 24k miles on it! The worst part is the final settlement figure is £6800, the salesman walked back and forth to the office and eventually offered 7k, and £400 p/m for the bmw, am I right in thinking they were simply trying to offset the negative equity into a new finance agreement?
Would this be win win for Bmw financial services getting me out of a car that is deprecating faster than they want into a new deal?
Also car is worth near 12k as a private sale looking at other examples for sale, which would more or less cover the outstanding balance. But it seems Bmw are looking for huge margins on the mini?
What would you do..?
This is my first pcp deal, go easy on me.
We have a pristine Mini JCW coupe, 2012 61, 46k full mini history etc. Loaded with nearly every option as an ex showroom car, h/k, lounge leather, media xl, chilli..
Im 24-25 months into a 48 month pcp contract with Bmw financial services, and was looking to change up to an m140i.
Speaking over the phone to sales before going in nobody thought it would be any issue and that I would be able to get out of the mini relatively unscathed, and get a good deal on the m140i (£337 deposit and £337 p/m 8k miles).
Test driven the m140i, and I can see what all the hype is about, got back after the test drive and down to some figures.
They offered me 6.5k for the mini, we bought it for over 16k two years ago with 24k miles on it! The worst part is the final settlement figure is £6800, the salesman walked back and forth to the office and eventually offered 7k, and £400 p/m for the bmw, am I right in thinking they were simply trying to offset the negative equity into a new finance agreement?
Would this be win win for Bmw financial services getting me out of a car that is deprecating faster than they want into a new deal?
Also car is worth near 12k as a private sale looking at other examples for sale, which would more or less cover the outstanding balance. But it seems Bmw are looking for huge margins on the mini?
What would you do..?
This is my first pcp deal, go easy on me.
Sorry I meant the final settlement figure is circa 12k including the 6800 final payment. So if I sell for 12k I will just clear finance and start fresh. The m140 deals were pretty good, 5.7k deposit contribution straight away before any real haggling. The issue I had was the fact that the mini is worth so little, I'm aware dealers aren't a charity but it shouldn't have depreciated so much, it's worth less now trade in than it should be in two years time? We buy any car offered 6.8k too. I'm honestly shocked, I would've thought it was still sitting around 9k trade in.
Sorry I meant the final settlement figure is circa 12k including the 6800 final payment. So if I sell for 12k I will just clear finance and start fresh. The m140 deals were pretty good, 5.7k deposit contribution straight away before any real haggling. The issue I had was the fact that the mini is worth so little, I'm aware dealers aren't a charity but it shouldn't have depreciated so much, it's worth less now trade in than it should be in two years time? We buy any car offered 6.8k too. I'm honestly shocked, I would've thought it was still sitting around 9k trade in.
Hitch said:
A quick look on Autotrader suggest the market price for a 2012 JCW Coupe from a general dealer is around £9.5k-£10k so trade is always going to be a couple of grand plus below that to cover cleaning, fixing anything that is wrong, throwing a s
t warranty on it and profit.
It is quite a niche car and the age/miles makes it unlikely they would retail through a franchised main dealer so they're getting bids off their usual trade buyer who in turn would be worried about it sitting for a while until that niche buyer turns up.
Sounds about right.
Yeah there are a couple at that price, but also a few with spec below the level of mine with more miles nearer 12k, I think I will hold onto it until I can v/t, I still like driving it and today was really just a trip to have a look at an m140 that escalated when I realised what deals were available. t warranty on it and profit. It is quite a niche car and the age/miles makes it unlikely they would retail through a franchised main dealer so they're getting bids off their usual trade buyer who in turn would be worried about it sitting for a while until that niche buyer turns up.
Sounds about right.
No I have paid more than 4K off, but as you know interest, gap insurance etc all bumps up the total amount payable. And the worthless tat mentioned makes it quite a nice thing to live with, standard mini interiors are not what you would call plush, the interior and media system is comparable to specced up Bmw levels with the idrive etc, the car was no more expensive at the time than a hatch version and the spec made very little difference in price over other lesser specced cars.
Yeah I'm realising now that a new car pcp is probably the better option for next time. Looking on auto trader I do see what you mean, but prices elsewhere also seem to be above and below, there is an example on motors with a lesser spec, same age and 6k more miles for 11.9k, looking at it I would only need 10.5 to cover my finance anyway, but I think I'm just going to enjoy the car for one more year, then look at getting a 'grown up' car. Thanks for the advice all of you. This is a great community.
Yeah maybe they can be, but at the time it worked out a good deal, mrs had a twingo 133 cup that we traded in, and walked out with a couple of k in our pocket, the twingo needed some work to the tune of 1k, and we had just bought our house. So that was win win for us really, I would dread to think how much a lease would be on a monthly basis on a niche car like this too, I would expect it to be double what we pay monthly now. Looking at it this way I have got a bit of a bargain, as mini/Bmw haven't valued it correctly I dare say my monthlys would have been higher if they would have predicted the depreciation correctly. Is this right?
spookly said:
Au contraire. Lease prices are usually comparable to or less than PCP cost, even with the larger deposit often put into a PCP.
I'd only go for a PCP if I really needed the option to exit early, or I was certain the car would retain more than its predicted future value.
When I leased a Merc E220 I paid £750 deposit and £280 a month for 3 years. Closest the Merc dealers could get on PCP required a £6000 deposit and £500 a month. At the end of the 3 years the car was worth much less than Merc had predicted for the PCP, so any equity would have been gone too.
I like the certainty of leasing. The fixed period means it stops me changing my car too regularly, as that gets very expensive. And it is a fixed cost. With PCP it isn't uncommon to find you have no equity at the end of the agreement anyway, or that any equity you have is less than the additional cost above the price of a lease.
That sounds a good deal, I do look at leading too and will on my next car (hopefully m140i) however lease deals were just not even close to comptetive with the pcp deals Bmw are offering at the moment for that particular car. Plus you are tied for the term with a lease, on pcp I can v/t once I pay half total amount payable with no adverse effects. I suppose one of the benefits of pcp and leasing is not much of a risk factor, you pay your money and unless you want out early it's fixed, either with gfv or your payment term.I'd only go for a PCP if I really needed the option to exit early, or I was certain the car would retain more than its predicted future value.
When I leased a Merc E220 I paid £750 deposit and £280 a month for 3 years. Closest the Merc dealers could get on PCP required a £6000 deposit and £500 a month. At the end of the 3 years the car was worth much less than Merc had predicted for the PCP, so any equity would have been gone too.
I like the certainty of leasing. The fixed period means it stops me changing my car too regularly, as that gets very expensive. And it is a fixed cost. With PCP it isn't uncommon to find you have no equity at the end of the agreement anyway, or that any equity you have is less than the additional cost above the price of a lease.
rsbmw said:
Not quite, the finance has to be paid off of course to transfer ownership, but nothing to stop the buyer paying off the finance house directly.
Technically, you wouldn't really hit any problems selling the car and immediately paying off the finance with the proceeds. From the buyers perspective this isn't great as they have no guarantee you will pay off the finance.
Exactly this, speaking to Bmw finance today they said the buyer could even just pay them for the car, get confirmation of payment and I give them the keys. As long as the finance is paid in full.Technically, you wouldn't really hit any problems selling the car and immediately paying off the finance with the proceeds. From the buyers perspective this isn't great as they have no guarantee you will pay off the finance.
I have been attracted to leasing, very nearly got a fiesta st-3 when they first came out, I was wondering however what are the mileage overrun charges like? At the moment I'm over by 8k miles on my car, but it's only 3.6p per mile, so less than £300 total.
When the dealer asked what mileage we did, I said 12k, Bmw put is down for 8k which made a considerable difference to the monthly payments, so the £300 mileage payment at the end won't actually cost as much if we just contracted 12k miles
When the dealer asked what mileage we did, I said 12k, Bmw put is down for 8k which made a considerable difference to the monthly payments, so the £300 mileage payment at the end won't actually cost as much if we just contracted 12k miles
Thanks for that I will double check about mileage caps, don't think I actually have one in the contract I had a good read not so long ago, but will double check. I'm in quite a good position as the mini doesn't get used as much these days, and is more of a weekend car than anything as I have a diesel smoker for work commuting. So the excess mileage should even put towards the end.
Edited as I read something wrong in an above comment, so my reply would have made no sense
Edited as I read something wrong in an above comment, so my reply would have made no sense
Edited by Turbo-Dan on Monday 20th February 15:52
spookly said:
Turbo-Dan said:
spookly said:
Au contraire. Lease prices are usually comparable to or less than PCP cost, even with the larger deposit often put into a PCP.
I'd only go for a PCP if I really needed the option to exit early, or I was certain the car would retain more than its predicted future value.
When I leased a Merc E220 I paid £750 deposit and £280 a month for 3 years. Closest the Merc dealers could get on PCP required a £6000 deposit and £500 a month. At the end of the 3 years the car was worth much less than Merc had predicted for the PCP, so any equity would have been gone too.
I like the certainty of leasing. The fixed period means it stops me changing my car too regularly, as that gets very expensive. And it is a fixed cost. With PCP it isn't uncommon to find you have no equity at the end of the agreement anyway, or that any equity you have is less than the additional cost above the price of a lease.
That sounds a good deal, I do look at leading too and will on my next car (hopefully m140i) however lease deals were just not even close to comptetive with the pcp deals Bmw are offering at the moment for that particular car. Plus you are tied for the term with a lease, on pcp I can v/t once I pay half total amount payable with no adverse effects. I suppose one of the benefits of pcp and leasing is not much of a risk factor, you pay your money and unless you want out early it's fixed, either with gfv or your payment term.I'd only go for a PCP if I really needed the option to exit early, or I was certain the car would retain more than its predicted future value.
When I leased a Merc E220 I paid £750 deposit and £280 a month for 3 years. Closest the Merc dealers could get on PCP required a £6000 deposit and £500 a month. At the end of the 3 years the car was worth much less than Merc had predicted for the PCP, so any equity would have been gone too.
I like the certainty of leasing. The fixed period means it stops me changing my car too regularly, as that gets very expensive. And it is a fixed cost. With PCP it isn't uncommon to find you have no equity at the end of the agreement anyway, or that any equity you have is less than the additional cost above the price of a lease.
Autoebid.com are showing target discounts on a base model BMW 140i 5dr manual of 21.1%. So priced at £25,836 against a retail price of £32,735... a saving of £6899.
Are BMW offering a near £7000 discount/contribution on that deal?
Even if you are going the cash or PCP route it is always worth looking at what brokers can do, just to see what kind of discount against retail price should be possible.
For your Mini.... Mini 3dr JCW Chilli/Tech 9+23 lease 10k miles/year - £261.90/month
Weren't people getting silly cheap m135i on lease not so long ago? Are these sorts of deals around at the moment?
Jefferson Steelflex said:
OP - we are in a similar situation with my wife's 116i Sport. Just under 3 years into a 4 year PCP deal and we are being offered pretty much the final MGFV, so looking at £2k deficit.
The best option all round is just to Voluntarily Terminate the car if you really want to get out of it. For us, this is at month 41 of our agreement (August), so we have to wait until then. You can work out the VT point by taking 50% of the total cost of the car (the amount 'borrowed', which includes the final payment(). We missed out on a really decent deal on a new car as I wasn't prepared to have them stick £2k of negative equity onto the new one.
Just be patient, deals come and go all the time.
It's inevitable that as new cars get bigger and bigger discounts, the PCP deals become less attractive on a shorter term as the final payment gets affected. BMW are one of the worst at this, they discount so heavily now that their future values on PCP are continually dropping each quarter.
This is what they tried doing, he wanted to hide near 4K in the new deal, spoken to him this morning and questioned it and basically he was going to use the discount money to pay the negative in the old deal, and giving less discount on the new. Not really worth it and I will be doing the same as you waiting until next April to VT. hopefully by then as others below have advised Bmw may be looking to shift a few on lease deals! The best option all round is just to Voluntarily Terminate the car if you really want to get out of it. For us, this is at month 41 of our agreement (August), so we have to wait until then. You can work out the VT point by taking 50% of the total cost of the car (the amount 'borrowed', which includes the final payment(). We missed out on a really decent deal on a new car as I wasn't prepared to have them stick £2k of negative equity onto the new one.
Just be patient, deals come and go all the time.
It's inevitable that as new cars get bigger and bigger discounts, the PCP deals become less attractive on a shorter term as the final payment gets affected. BMW are one of the worst at this, they discount so heavily now that their future values on PCP are continually dropping each quarter.
Thanks everyone for your help, when I bought the mini I wasn't aware of this part of the forums but I will 100% be looking for good deals via the knowledgable people on here! And obviously putting back where I can help in other places.
Thanks guys and gals
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