Yet another Ebay rouge car Its NOT am Eagle!!

[Steffan]

Auction says car built on Citroen parts Ford rear suspension nothing like the car it is supposedly registered as -- an Eagle. On a Q plate!!

SEE

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAGLEKITCAR-RED-/3207220...

And the seller thinks this is acceptable on the road. Plain DAFT.

I find the utter disregard for all the rules of vehicle registration quite challenging.

As I have said before be careful out there --- there are a LOT of incorrectly registered cars and they will get VOR'd and the buyer WILL face a huge bill for IVA and registration.

If in fact economic registration is possible at all!

[Steffan]

Thanks for the info clearly I am wrong on this one but my post on the other kit car I posted today registered as a Ford Cortina still stands I think.

Surely that cannot be right?

[Steffan]

parlettd said:

If states Ford Cortina and the original chassis number then this is obviously wrong.

However, if the V5 reads Ford Cortina "Sports" or "Convertable" and the other numbers match, then its probably been registered that way when it was built.

I'd still be uncomfortable with this description.

I believe that there is still a scheme to amend the V5 of "incorrectly" registered vehicles.
However,to obtain the "correction" there has to be documentary evidence of the car being on the road originally, any available correspondance from the time of registration, and the vehicle has to be authenticated by an Independant party ....although this can be an Officer of the owners club.
Even then, I believe it a challenging process ! The scheme is designed to sort out the genuine cars.
Others may know more about this scheme.

Buyers should be confident of the description on the V5 when they are looking to buy a car.

Nomad

I entirely agree with this comment and thanks once again for the info re the Eagle.

My researches suggest the description in the V5 of the Cortina is exactly as it was first registered. No indication of any change.

I agree there was a scheme with the DVLA to iron out inconsistencies with registration in the past but my experience is that the DVLA now push for IVA heavily in the event of a dispute.

My concern is that the prospective purchasers who are looking at these cars and may have sought such a purchase for years could unknowingly face unaffordable costs in getting the registration of a car corrected, if in fact it is at all possible. A number I have seen have been scrapped as beyond economic repair.

[Steffan]

Pothole said:

where does the basic premise of caveat emptor sit in your mind in this situation?

I believe that the principle of Caveat Emptor still holds: however an online auction requires a high degree of care and accuracy in the description of the item particularly where the item is a complex vehicle.

I appreciate that most cars are sold as seen by buyers at auctions. However unless the buyer is an expert, or a businessman trading in cars, then a car described as roadworthy and registered which subsequently proved unroadworthy and unregisterable at the time of sale could offer a cause of action against the seller to the buyer.

And serious difficulty in any event if registration proved economic which it frequently does not in these cases.

Perhaps I am overcautious but it does seem to me that Ebay is particularly popular with Kit Car sellers who seem unaware of the realities of accurate descriptions being essential on the V5.

[Steffan]

smash said:

@EFA - The thrust of your argument seems to be that the car has already been registered in the UK therefore DVLA only need minor notifications of changes whereas cars that have not been previously registered have a legal requirement to be subject to IVA.

The question then has to be at what point does a car become so substantially modified that it ceases to be the car that was previously registered and becomes something new and therefore previously unregistered? The IVA points system is, as I understand it, the measure of whether the resulting car is technically one deemed to be previously registered or not. It's provides a definition of the point at which the original registered car effectively ceases to exist and something new and not previously registered is created.

If the judge in a court case took the classic "man on clapham omnibus" approach in this respect i.e. this is the pic of the originally registered car and here (M'lud) is a picture of a shiney new cobra replica with entirely different braking system, suspension, engine, chassis etc. he'd conclude it is not the same car and therefore not previously registered - off to the IVA centre with you me lad! Admittedly simplistic view but you get my point. And from what has been said about incorrectly registered cars being taken off road permanently by police/DVLA it seems that this is the approach they are legitimately taking.

I've not seen the enabling legislation for the "previously not registered requires IVA" bit, but would be interested to see it.

I wish you good luck in the courts!

I agree with thus post. Particularly with the final comment.

It does seem that the number of these suspect cars appearing on Ebay is increasing and the owners frequently ignore the whole question of the reality of the history of the car and the validity of the registration.

Clearly EFA has examined the legislation and he may be right. I am not sure that the DVLA take a similar view of the interpretaion of the regulations. As the man says above it is largely down to interpretation.

And interpretation is down to individual officials within the DVLA and in my experience they are highly suspicious of rogue registrations and becoming very keen to withdraw registration until IVA has been satisfied on cars with obvious discrepancies in V5 descriptions.

Perhaps the experience of others is different but some of the individuals who buy these cars are going to have real problems actually using them on the road. Seems a shame when they are buying trouble in looking for a fun car.

[Steffan]

Interesting Posts.

EFA may be right he clearly has an excellent knowledge of the legislation.

I would make the proviso that there must be clear evidence that the car concerned has been on the road in the form that is being notified to the DVLA.

Otherwise, to give an example, I could take a Dutton, add new chassis drive train and body and insist that the DVLA register the car as a Dutton with different bits.

Now that cannot be right and VOSA and the IVA would be circumvented en masse.

I know PERSONALLY of several Kit Cars ordered off the road because they had been on the road modified and not in the correct form for the identity and ended up scrapped.

I would like to test the hypothesis that EFA has put forward by offering to seek registration of any Kit Car that PH readers may own that are currently in this predicament with their car at my cost.

If it is really possible for a car currently off road to be given a lawful registration without IVA in a case where this car has been ordered off road by the DVLA/VOSA/POLICE then there is a HUGE saving for the owner and I would like to test this out at length.

This could save a lot of currently unregisterable cars.

If anybody has such a car they would like to test out please PM me,