if you had the option would you get carbon?

[ezakimak]

just had this come through from a mate. he said that he can do some GT40 body parts in carbon if we have a mold (which I might ). this was done with someone elses mold, so is not representative of what mine will be but give you an idea.

the question is, would it be worth getting say carbon front and rear clips, doors and sills for a GT40?

The roof spider is double skinned so there may not be as much benefit as it requires a certain thickness at the bond joint which is 90% of the part.

it will still have a gel coat outer, carbon just for strength and weight saving. Its roughly half the weight when in carbon. ie just guessing but if a glass body was 100kg, the carbon one will be 50kg.

what do you think? what would be an acceptable premium in the price for carbon over plain CSM?

trying to work out if its worth it.

Ryan

[ezakimak]

So if the outside surface remains sealed it will be fine as moisture would not be able to get in?

should also say that this will be a road car first - track car second. So i will need to make some concessions to make it a good car on the Road. If it was going to be a track car, I would start with something that will deliver down force first.

I'm still waiting on the price to come back.

will make sure I'm sitting down when I open the email.....

[ezakimak]

andygtt said:

I've made a complete carbon body for my Noble (made moulds then vac formed the parts)... my parts were a lot stronger than the GRP items so they only ended up only around half the weight of the GF body I replaced.

However if they are going to do it properly it won't be a 'pure' carbon part and should include other materials. For example my front clam is a mix of carbon, foam core and kevlar... a pure carbon part would have been a lot heavier OR much much weaker and highly liable to incur damage...

They MUST line the wheel arches in kevlar.

If they are Vac forming the parts then as a guide the 'materials' in a front clam would be aprox £6-800.. would take me 16hrs to lay up the material and then a further 8 hrs of releasing the part and cleaning the mould... I don't do this for a living its just me doing it in my garage for myself so I expect a pro to be faster than me

I saved around 40-50kgs on the car by making all the body in carbon, its all high cog weight as well

Thanks Andy

price was 2.4 times the glass option for the entire body.

weight estimated is around what you have said, going from 100kg body weight down to 50kg body weight for the complete gt40 body.

layup was gelcoat 450g csm, 200g twill,core matt across the flat area at the top of the wheel arch then more 200g twill. Where does the Kevlar go Andy?
presume you would put it on the very top of the layup, ie last thing into the mold so that it is the first thing a rock hits after it get flicked up from the tire.

the white matt is the core matt in the glass layup, presume this is what they have put in the carbon one as well. Its a bit of a resin sponge.


they a still a few weeks out from molding mine, so can hold off for a bit and see how the one above goes. They should have it out on the track in a couple of weeks.

Ryan

Edited by ezakimak on Thursday 26th February 13:10

Edited by ezakimak on Thursday 26th February 13:15

[ezakimak]

Thanks Trevor, some "interesting" stuff a few clicks away through you profile!
Do you ship much to Australia?

Nice front crossmember there as well !

Regards Ryan

[ezakimak]

I have been looking into doing a carbon tub. initial calculations make it appear a heap lighter. I'm finding it very interesting.

[ezakimak]

ok, where (which section) would be the best place on this site to ask about making a carbon mono tub/chassis ?

[ezakimak]

Thanks Andy, I have started reading your thread on the other forum. Haven't signed up yet.
Have access to guys that are capable of doing the CAD analysis, Cnc work as well as the final construction

Dom, I might start something in home mechanics/general Motorsport just to see who is out there?

Pre preg suppliers?
Auto clave manufacturers?
Carbon specilists?
Canno or boat builders?

Edited by ezakimak on Friday 24th April 22:34

[ezakimak]

What's the deal with that forum, are they linked commercially with a supplier?

[ezakimak]

[-]I can't seem to get past the menus on that forum on my phone.

I can read AndyGTT's thread as someone else sent me a direct link to it.
Anyone else a member. Maybe I need to register. [/-]

EDIT, working now that i have registered, looks very much like the site is linked to "easy composites" & "carbonmods"

Ryan.

Edited by ezakimak on Monday 27th April 04:12

[ezakimak]

Thanks Rob, much appreciated.

still on a bit of a learning curve at the moment. to do 200+ you must have been making a living from it and i appreciate that you have certain details you wish to protect. However i would be really great full if you could pass on some/any knowledge to help someone get started, or just understand it a little bit more. Who knows, it might open up the market for you a bit. I'm sure there are more than a few that would be scared to own a carbon tub due to the "fear of the unknown" and up-keep or repair costs should something go wrong.

Have you done much, if any "out of autoclave" pre preg carbon tubs? I see some of the pre preg stuff is being advertised as suitable for "out of autoclave" use in structural applications.

Ryan

[ezakimak]

f1rob said:

Google "wisper sports car" that is an all composite 7 chassis

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=193585&page=0&contribmessage=none

from link.

Martin Ogilvie's WiSPER ('Westfield in Structural Plastics Electric Roadster' ) used epoxy glass skinned panels, rather than carbon fibre:

Martin Ogilvie has some form if you know his background.

[ezakimak]

Rob and Andy, thanks for the information.

I have been reading through the various data sheets on pre preg from about 6 different supplier.
I have just about watched all the videos on the easy composites web site.
It is always good to know a bit of background about a forum beforehand so that I don’t start making an ass of myself at the off. There forum doesn’t seem to want to work on my Iphone. Works on the pc ok though.
Also been having a good look around the easy composites materials. Rob, they list a pre preg designed specifically as a surfacing layer for out of auto clave use and presume something like this is what you are referring to.
http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/products/carbon-fi...


I first became aware of Martin Ogilvie’s work a couple of years ago when I was involved in a group build of a bike engine hill climber. We stumbled across the Saxon that he had been involved in, and then the predator with the V10 in the back. fantastic cars that certainly get the mind ticking over. We are still going on the hill climber, very slowly.

I will review the Wisper and the FW400 again, don’t want to be called John Wane.

One question I think I’m comfortable asking now, is how pre preg gets delivered. I presume they just ship it in a roll at normal room temp via priority mail/courier and that you put it back in the freezer as soon as it arrives to prolong its life? My concern is that I am in Melbourne Australia, so may potentially have a few days travel time between there dispatch and getting it in the freezer here. Any experiences or tips in this area that could be passed on would be greatly appreciated.

I probably need to get all my other ducks lined up before I order that to insure that I have the maximum time available before stuff starts going off.

I’m sure I will have more questions shortly, just want to make sure they are good ones and not waste everyone’s time or be spoon feed.

Regards Ryan

[ezakimak]

Yes, I have Kieth Noaks book, have also order Tony Southgate's book as well. Struggling to think of anyone else that may have writen anythin in the last 10 years that may be relevant

Will have to look into the supply chain. Have had stuff arrive from usa/uk in 24hrs. Have also had stuff take 2 months.

Thanks again.