BEC to CEC

[T0MMY]

I've been toying with the idea of swapping my R1 engined MNR Vortx for something car engined and perhaps with a windscreen and weather gear as these days I seem to do a lot more road than track miles.

Just wondering what sort of level of car engine I'd need to retain most of the speed and drama of my BEC. My budget would be less than £8k for a second hand, built car so I'm pretty limited...how would something like a Zetec powered 7 style CEC compare to an R1 engined BEC? What's a realistic power output for a tuned 2l Zetec and is that the best engine option in my price range?

[T0MMY]

I do prefer the idea of a smaller, lighter, revvier engine so a Zetec SE sounds good. My dad had a 2.0 zetec Mondeo and the engine was horribly unwilling to rev, but was obviously tuned for low down torque so I probably shouldn't let that put me off! I think I really need to try to bag some passenger laps at trackdays though to see how CECs compare.

[T0MMY]

It's a 5PW injection one with power commander but no idea what power it's actually putting out. It also has a Quaife reverse box so I can go backwards...in fact I could go backwards at over 100mph

I've done a bit of research and the consensus seems to be I'd need somewhere from 180-200bhp in a CEC to give the same performance which is achievable from various engines in my budget. Given how few cars are on the market though I'd probably be limited by what I could find and I'd be happy with either a zetec, 4age or Vauxhall Redtop.

Having been getting frustrated at trying and failing to book a dry trackday over the last couple of weeks though I'm starting to wonder if something watertight like an Elise or VX220 might be a better option Big reduction in speed but presumably not far off handling wise? Anyone had both an Elise and a good kitcar to compare?

[T0MMY]

AdamR172 said:

I've just done this, but the other way round - a ~250bhp 590kg Westfield (geared to about 160mph) to a ~155bhp 500kg R1 Fisher Fury (geared to 122mph). The Westfield is marginally quicker in a straight line due to the torque, but the 'drama' is increased with the BEC.

Honestly, you'll struggle to match the sensations of your MNR with an £8k CEC.

Wife has an S2 Elise - it's boring and handles like turd compared to both of the above.

Where are you located Tommy? Just wondering if anyone could give you a spin out in a CEC to help make your mind up - I would certainly be willing to do so.

I'm in Peterborough but I'm actually heading up to Cadwell tomorrow for a trackday so I'm sure there'll be a few other kitcars there I can beg a ride in. Just praying the rain holds off until late afternoon as it's predicted to.

Surprised to hear the Elise doesn't impress in the handling department. I guess they're carrying a lot more weight and concession to all round road use in the geometry etc.

I would struggle to move away from kitcars as they're fantastic but it would be nice to have something I could use all year round. I do realise that there is literally no road legal car of any type I could get for £8k that is more exciting than a BEC though!

[T0MMY]

There was a guy at Cadwell today with a GBS Zero running something close to 400bhp (supercharged S2000 engine) which should suffice! Unfortunately it broke down on the sighting laps so I never got to see it fly past.

There were a number of CECs there (R300, R500 and 3 or 4 others that I didn't identify) but I failed to bag any passenger laps as I was having too much fun driving my own car I was lapping a bit quicker than all of them I think but just through corner speed, didn't really get any drags along the straights to compare them for acceleration. I assume the R300 would have been the closest match.

[T0MMY]

ugg10 said:

Got to say that if I were in the op's position with an 8k budget I would be looking at a closed body fury or pheonix. The chassis is still the best around and the body gives a noticeable advantage over 70mph in terms of drag, the aero screens work pretty well too and if you want a full screen the curved ones are again much better for drag and buffett.

I was actually looking for a Fury when this MNR popped up as too much of a bargain to turn down. Quite like the look of them and the better aerodynamics would be good on trackdays.

With a low powered 7-style BEC, in a way you really drop down a tier in straight line performance when on track. On the road where I've had the odd, ahem, good natured acceleration comparisons with fellow enthusiasts, it'll keep up with very fast cars as the speeds are actually pretty low and it's all about power to weight. On track where the speeds are much higher the lack of power really tells and at times it feels frustratingly slow. So entering an NSL from a 30 limit the car feels ballistic and you're in the big boys group with M3s and 911s but on track coming off an 80mph corner it feels wheezy and you'd struggle to gain on a typical modern 1.4 tonne 250bhp hot hatch.

Not that this bothers me that much as trackdays are about corners and kitcars are just sublime in that area but it does put me off doing very fast tracks where the car would feel totally flat. That said, my R1 engine is desperately in need of mapping so maybe it's down on power?

Edited by T0MMY on Friday 4th September 18:05