Donors for a mid-engine one-off

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I am (again) tinkering with ideas for a one-off mid engined car.
The basic premise is to use a FWD engine / trans, as done by FIAT, Lotus, Toyota etc.

So :
What common FWD cars came with wishbone front suspension? I know some Hondas did.
What common FWD cars had a longitudinal crankshaft?

I am in Australia, so would prefer Japanese / Ford / GM to VAG, both for affordability and availability.

Any suggestions?

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It doesn't have to be transaxle; most small middies just use a transverse engine & box with a strut type suspension, but I am looking at alternatives : strut top mounts need to be strong, and reletively high up.

One possibility is to make a de Dion rear suspension : the geometry is easier to get right, and the hard points are easier to work into the chassis.

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Auntieroll said:

Alfa 147/156 have front wishbone suspension, good range of engines from 1.6 4pot to 3.2 V6, flappy paddle gearbox if you are feeling brave!

Interesting.

The flappy paddle box avoids having to reverse the gear linkage, which would make life easier. If it has a FBW throttle, that's another linkage I don't have to make.

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Corpulent Tosser said:

Have you considered a bike engine ?

Lots of single seaters/sports libre cars use them, light weight, built in six speed sequential gearbox.

I have, but a bike engine brings its own set of issues, including no reverse gear, and more work to get drive from the box to the wheels. Not insurmountable by any means, but non-trivial.

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Mistrale said:

Why the insistence with double wishbone? If you must, I suppose, then MGF is the obvious.

However, why not copy lotus and use the much more common Chapman Strut i.e. the ubiquitous Macpherson!!!

See what I did: www.mistral.blogspot.com !

I am not insisting on wishbones, just exploring the options.
I have an early MR2 with struts, and they are the easy option, with literally dozens of potential donors - I was contemplating the wishbone alternative, and wondered what is out there that I could use.

ps The uprights are the most heavily and complexly loaded part of the suspension, and are about the only part I wouldn't consider designing myself.

Realistically, this will probably never get past the design stage (again), but designing it beats watching the idiot box, or arguing with strangers on the internet

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kambites said:

Surely you want a transverse crank-shaft if you're going transverse engined like an Elise/MR2?

I'm not sure why the requirement for double wish-bones either; are you planning on taking the suspension from the donor too or is this for the front suspension?

Dropping a FWD drivertain in the rear, whether the donor is transverse or longitudinal it will be the same in the recipient. IIRC the Hawk Stratos replica has a longitudinal Alfa drivetrain.

Longutudinal vs transverse, wishbone vs strut : these decisions have a huge impact on the basic chassis layout.
To be honest, I will probably go the easy route (transverse with struts), but.....that's what almost everyone does (for good reasons of course), and Lotus have already done that better than I ever could


re wishbones : I don't want the whole suspension, just the uprights, as mentioned above.

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Corpulent Tosser said:

Electric reverse is easily incorporated, it worked well on my Fury, a chain drive to a modified differential is also relatively easy, I know someone who manufactures these differentials, well modifies existing differentials to chain drive including making up mounting plates, with concentric tensioners. He exports them all over the world, primarily for race car applications.

This may be a silly question, but the fury is front engined, with the crank running longitudinally, right?

For a bike engine in my application, what I would need would be a modified diff where the crownwheel is chain driven rather than turned by a pinion : eg I really only need the spider gear set.
Or a shaft drive with a really short drive shaft to a conventional diff, but the drivetrain package starts getting longer than ideal.


Does your mate have a website?



Thanks for all the replies so far : so many options

I am off to go rallying this weekend, but next weekend I think I will go stroll around the wreckers and lift a few Honda bonnets.

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Steve_D said:

As this car would end up down the IVA route then reverse is a requirement.

Steve

Just to clarify : I am in Aus, so different rules apply, but yes, reverse is one of the mandatory requirements.
Car will also have to be tested for torsional stiffness and bump steer, among other things.

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Steve_D said:

Oh, bad luck. Most think IVA is a pain to get through but I believe your test can be even worse as it is back to our pre-IVA days where it is 'In the opinion of the tester'.

Best of luck.

Steve

Both the bump steer and torsional rigidity are quantified, but things like fabricated uprights require a lot of supporting evidence to satisfy the inspector / tester.

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SpridgetMitch said:

As another antipodean I have considered the same question as yourself.
If you haven't already I would be joining http://www.ozclubbies.com.au/ There aren't many mid-engine projects on there but there is plenty of knowledge and even an engineer who does ICV's.

I am leaning towards tiny forced induction engines to use in a middy. In particular the 1L ecoboost in a Ford Fiesta or the 875 Twinair in a Fiat 500.

One thing to consider is that the front uprights of fwd Macpherson strut car can be adapted to be used as a double wishbone setup. There are a couple of options:

Graber cars La Bala. It uses a bracket to mount a ball joint to and a tapered piece at the end of the wishbone. You can see it here:


Sylva J15 uses a fwd upright upside-down and uses the bolt hole for the strut with a bracket to keep the upright from twisting. These pics should show it:

Thanks.

I knew of the laBala, but the J15 looks interesting. I have a slight dislike of running upside down ball joints, but can't give a rational reason.

Like you, I was also considering the ecoboost, but hadn't thought of the twin air.

ps I have lurked on ozclubbies, but not joined as yet.