Aluminium monocoupes and kit cars

[ceebmoj]

I have been thinking about kit cars again and was wondering why to the best of my knowledge there are no build it your self aluminium monocouple design's out there? I know that robin hood had a go with the light weight witch does not seam to have gone well. Having said that in the US a number of aeroplanes are built from in kit form using this method so it can be done and I assume with a significant degree of safety that and access to cheap laser cutting, the idea of a flat packed monocoupe kit seam to make sense at leasest to me.

Blake

PS I have no idea of the correct spelling of monocope

[ceebmoj]

Sam_68 said:

Interesting stuff.

I guess I had imagined the panels being shipped pre cut with all the holes cut by laser then the builder would just fold the panels then rivet the lot together, this still leaves you with the problem of folding accurately mayby that could also be pre folded as well.

As for the relaxing I take that is why the structures are now bonded? so that the rivets just hold the structure while it is gluing then the bond is in the glue?

While the example you gave of the 79 F1 car is interesting I presume that this means that the lotus was of a simaler level of stifnes to the tubula constructed cars that pre dated it?

[ceebmoj]

rdodger does your friend have a web sight or are there any pictures / info on line? would youer friend be intrested in posting some information up?

I guess you are also right that it is about doing what you know.

[ceebmoj]

Dr Derek Doctors do you have any pictures?

[ceebmoj]

Sam_68 said:

No, even the original 'bathtub' monocoque of the Lotus 25 was a major step up on the spaceframe F1 cars that predated the monocoque era, and the ground effect cars like the Lotus 78 were a good bit stiffer still.

As you have said at other points that this type of construction is not all that ridged is it just the case that the ealer era space frame cars where just particularly wibelly? or that space frame construction has moved a long way forward?


Thanks for all of the informative posts I was looking at picks of the RCR Superlite Coupe on a tread on heay the other day and it looks like a nice piece of kit. I know that the javan is a hunny cone construction but the frame at both ends seams to make nice use of later cut possibly self jigging construction http://www.javansportscars.com/javan.html. I guess as always I just have a lot to learn however the idea of using CNC laser cutting seams to bring a number of benefits with it.

[ceebmoj]

found this interesting thread that has some pictures of building up a tub


http://www.gt40s.com/forum/lola-t70-lounge/22490-l...

[ceebmoj]

Dr Derek Doctors said:

Not yet, these are some screen grabs of some very early CAD (as to not give much away).

do you have any latter pictures screen grabs I can have a look at? or details of how you are atactching the front or rear frames to the tub?

[ceebmoj]

Lots of interesting replys while I have been away.

I have been spending some time with bits of card, scissors and the glue trying to make models of tubs that could be constructed using the means that I suggested. I have been having great fun and learning a lot I found this thread about rebuilding a mclaren M10 witch shows some mice details of the tub.

http://forums.autosport.com/index.php?showtopic=82...

I then tried the same sort of thing but using the methods as shown for the costin cars and made a mess but also learnt lots about other ideas I had been having also found the use of space for the fuel tanks interesting.

I have been thinking about building something that is fun but also fuel efficient for a while now and if I can get my head round this type of construction I also think that with some refinement it could be a good way to produce vehicles in low volume.

I will get some pictures of what I have been up to and post them so people cleverer than me can point out the obvios floors I have missed

[ceebmoj]

Russ Bost said:

Given the different manufacturing techniques like laser cutting that are available now (so the holes are the right size & line up!), plus newer (stronger?) adhesives is there a realistic possibility that a single seat (or tandem style) arrangement might actually work quite well as a modern design if all the joints were bonded as well as rivetted, surely this would help to stop the loss of stiffness which has been mentioned as a major drawback for production over the throwaway mentality of the racer?

The paper models I have been making inspired by the Mclaren M10 tub pictures posted earlier, seam to show that I can make a single seater chassis rapidly and for a sensible price using this method. I think the next step that i'm going to try is to have a go at a 1/6 scale tub in aluminium. bonding and riveting it all together. However I still want to see lots more pictures of tubs being restored or constructed to see what else I can learn.

[ceebmoj]

skwdenyer said:

Mr2Mike said:

skwdenyer said:

To tie this in with the OP's thread, Inrekor are not delivering a monocoque of any kind

I don't think that was suggested. I only mentioned it as the conversation was steering towards composite materials in general for chassis construction rather than monocoques specifically.

Sorry, I did realise that; I was just trying to steer things back before we ended up covering every possibly construction method under the sun!

Maby my initial question should have been more open ended regarding why we don't see a wider variety of construction methods used in kit car chassis. I guess I was interested in why as the cost of a variety of macheanumg methods become more cost viable we dont see other aproches being taken more.

[ceebmoj]

mickky3 said:

Cool project

Hi there, do you have any work in progress pictures pictures or sketches we can have a look at?

[ceebmoj]

mickky3 said:

Hi Blake,

If you live near me, Im in Hampshire, you are welcome to come and have a look, at my chassis, but its in the early stages at the moment

I tried to post a pic of a "side sponson", but the pic was too big, ill have to try to resize it

mick

Thanks for the update and offer to come and have a look. Unfortunately I'm based in Manchester so cant really just pop down as much as I would love to see the project.

Do you have a background in this type of construction? Are you gluing the joints as well? I would really like to see any pictures you have of the project would you mind emailing me them? or have you considered a build diary so that we can all learn from you-er experience.

[ceebmoj]

mickky3 said:

I have previous experiance in this type of constrection, but neither did Colin Chapman

I have researched the project for more than 12 months, and am now ready to start building my chassis. A riveted chassis is strong enough, but because of fatiuge, the rivets would eventually become loose and the chassis would fall apart, that is why you need to bond the chassis as well as riveting it.

I dont claim to be an expert, on alloy mono construction, but Im happy to share my knowledge with anyone who is intrested....just ask...

Blake ill email you some pics later this weekend

Thanks,

I did not mean for the question to be a put down however when I have asked simaler questions on other web boards the general consensus is its not worth it. with no real explanation as to why other than a lack of experience, in the construction method.

As for questions I have many and will have to take the time to come and have a look at what you are doing when ever i'm in the area.

so how about we start with some simple ones. What glues are you using? How to you prep joints for gluing and riveting? Are you hand cutting panels if so how? have you made a scale moddle of youer structure? what tools or jigs have you needed to make to build the monocope.