Errr, my bell housing doesnt fit

[Astacus]

Well, I finally got the engine back together, found a couple of mounts that fit (Escort Left hand side in case you are wondering with the 711M engine, rather than RHS as listed) and dropped the engine into the chassis for a trial fit. New clutch etc, mate up the input shaft push it in and presto......

Bell housing starter flange fouls the chassis one side



and clutch slave mounting fouls the chassis the other side



and the whole thing is out by about 10 degrees and it can't turn to match up the bolt holes. Oh and what is this all about



surely the prop shaft splines are supposed to go in further than this?

Anyone got a clue whats going on here. Is the slave mounting supposed to be below the chassis member?

I need a drink now

Help

[Astacus]

Thanks Neil,

This shows the way the engine sits in the chassis:







there does seem to be some distortion of the mountings indicating the that engine wants to sit higher, but is dropping under its own weight and distorting the rubber



The gearbox mounting plate is just a plate. Its mounted on top of the brackets and is very slightly thicker than the original (about 1/16). Are there more than one version of the gearbox mount?

I am going to check all the levels later on today.

Edited by Astacus on Saturday 20th July 11:07

[Astacus]

Re mounts, I agree with your slotting idea That would certainly help adjustment.

I have two sets of mounts. One set was a standard Escort right hand side mount, as per the parts list, but these are too long for my block. I cant get the engine in at all. I can only think that this is due to the extra width of the 711 at this point. The other set are std escort left hand side mounts, and they seemed to fit just right.

[Astacus]

heightswitch said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ford-Cortina-Mk2-Escort-...

Check your dimensions, This may be a L/H Mount.

Many thanks Neil, these are the ones I already had, that were too large. However, if I slot the bracket and raise the engine, then this could fit.

Engine and box are out again now, I might get the chance to slot the mounts tomorrow.

[Astacus]

thegamekeeper said:

I am not sure where you get your "listed" from, I assume the source of most misinformation, tinternet. Your series 1 Vixen predates the Ford Escort so probably wouldn,t have parts fitted which hadn,t yet been made.

Ford Cortina Mk2 GT/1600E is the place to look and as Neil said the RHS mount is slightly longer than the LHS. This is to push the starter motor over away from the chassis. The mounting hole on the bellhousing should be above the bottom main chassis rail and the correct engine mounts will obviously move that slightly over to the LHS of the car. The gearbox as is rightly said is mounted with the mounting plate above the chassis and usually you will need to fit 2 or 3 washers under the gearbox mount to achive the correct alignment with the differential. The propshaft looks correctly into the gearbox, as long as the smooth part after the splined section runs in the rear oil seal. Too far in and it can bind in the gearbox putting load on output shaft leading to premature failure.

sTeVeR

A 1600M bears no resemblance

Edited by thegamekeeper on Saturday 20th July 14:23

Thanks for the insight Steve. Does this mean that I need one of each Cortina mount?

[Astacus]

OK, Engine out, gearbox attached, Correct engine mounts an hour of swearing and cussing. I finally have both mounts attached at both ends

and it doesn't F***ing fit.

Its jammed between the two lower chassis rails with the clutch mounting on one side and the starter housing on the other, this time the gearbox mounting is several cm in the air.

There is an outside chance that it might fit if the outer starter bolt and the clutch slave were BELOW the chassis but I have had enough for the day.

Does anyone know if there are any dimensional differences between an 1800S chassis and the Series one Vixen?, maybe I have the wrong chassis?

[Astacus]

Its a bit difficult to get a clear photo due to the engine crane, but heres one that shows the shape of the chassis.



I am looking at the shape of the engine mounting pieces on the chassis. On closer inspection mine look different to both the old chassis and to a series one that I have photos of

Original chassis



New chassis



Another S1



The mounting is turned slightly backwards and has a shoulder, the new one doesn't.

The car did come with a new chassis, bought in 2001 from DGs. The engine came with the car, but I never saw it installed. The whole thing was dismantled. The engine had 2 of the larger mounts attached (Cortina RHS), which is why I assumed that these were the correct ones.

[Astacus]

Old chassis junked by previous owner.

Yes, its beginning to look like a welding job. I am going to try and contact DG today to see if they can tell whether its a 1800S chassis or not. Bit of a hold up, but should still get the engine in in a few weeks time.

[Astacus]

Monkeythree said:

Are you sure that your chassis has the correct brackets for a crossflow?

Tom

Looking increasingly like the answer to this is NO. Currently checking this theory out and hoping its just a question of grinding off the old ones and fitting new ones.

[Astacus]

Monkeythree said:

Astacus said:

Looking increasingly like the answer to this is NO. Currently checking this theory out and hoping its just a question of grinding off the old ones and fitting new ones.

As per my earlier post, my bellhousing sits comfortably between the chassis rails on my ( original early S3) chassis. Your chassis looks like none ive ever seen before. Or in other words, i fear that the engine mounts/ brackets are only the start of your problems. If it doesn't fit between the chassis rails, no amount of engine mount bracket welding will change that.

Tom

Yup, that's what I am worried about. I may shortly have a spare chassis for sale

I am kind of hoping that the early cars had a bit of a tight fit, which was sorted out on the longer wheelbase models with a slightly wider chassis at that point.

Sod's law, unfortunately suggests otherwise. I can feel a long summer of fibreglass work coming on

Edited by Astacus on Monday 22 July 19:36

[Astacus]

Monkeythree said:

As per my earlier post, my bellhousing sits comfortably between the chassis rails on my ( original early S3) chassis. Your chassis looks like none ive ever seen before. Or in other words, i fear that the engine mounts/ brackets are only the start of your problems. If it doesn't fit between the chassis rails, no amount of engine mount bracket welding will change that.

Tom

Just a thought, do you have the 2000E box of the later one

(Grasps straw)

[Astacus]

heightswitch said:

Here come all the Jonahs...

If you are worried just run a tape across the chassis rails top and bottom and I will do the same with mine..

I have a V8 in mine so don't worry..Your gash mounts are just too wide causing the engine to sit too low and foul the chassis rails.. Everything else I can see looks like Series 1 Vixen to me!!
Your mounts are also looking too far forward in the chassis..

You need a friendly S1 vixen owner with a tape.


N.

Edited by heightswitch on Monday 22 July 20:50

Cheers Neil, you've cheered me up no end.


I contacted Keith the see if he can shed any light on the dimensions, and I am just waiting to hear back from him.

I am now going to grab a glass of something and relax for a while

[Astacus]

Well, Keith has kindly replied to my E mail and it seems that, if I do have an 1800S chassis, then the only difference is the engine mounts and some differences around the diff.

With a bit of luck I should be able to get the engine in now, I just need to sort some mounting brackets

[Astacus]

Thanks Andy. I think I am going to have to spend some time to get this right.

How's your resto going? you must be nearly there now??

[Astacus]

Well, I think I have finally got to the bottom of the issue. Massive thanks to all those who chipped in with advice and measurements. I would still be floundering without it!

So, this is what I think is awry:

1. Yes, its an 1800S chassis, as it says on the receipt, but as far as I can determine, they are the same except for the engine mounts and triangulation. The previous owner appears to have ordered an 1800S chassis, with Vixen mounts,

1800S



Vixen brackets: My original chassis



New Chassis



The brackets on my chassis are the wrong shape, also, they are supposed to be canted slightly backwards to accept the odd mounting orientation on the block, but they have been welded in parallel to the top rail, which forces the mountings out of shape. Also, the mounting hole is far too low and forces the block into a position where the bell housing cant fit, hence the original problem,


2. The lower rails are the correct distance apart, which in case anyone is interested is approx 400mm. The clutch slave and starter do not fit between the rails on the S1, but are above.


3. Which leads to the second chassis difference I found. The Vixen S1 triangulation is modified so that the starter fits.

My old chassis: Arrow shows where the starter motor sits


New chassis: Starter fouls on the triangulation, because triangulation is set up the same both sides on 1800S.



4, And finally, the forward diff mountings that hold the side brackets are in slightly the wrong place and not drilled in the correct place either. This forces the nose of the diff upwards when the bolts are fitted and makes it impossible to get the drive train lined up properly.

The rear suspension pickups are also out, which places a sideways force on the shocks, so these also need adjusting.


I have made a start by grinding out the miss placed triangulation, which is what allowed me to finally line the engine up and work out what needed altering

[Astacus]

Thanks Neil this sounds like the logical way to do it.

Grinding out that bit of chassis was a bit painful, but having really checked out the differences, I was sure it was wrong!

[Astacus]

Yup, already on it, waiting for Keith togetback to me.

Edited by Astacus on Saturday 17th August 21:49

[Astacus]

Well, I am embarrassed to see this was all 18months ago and I have not made much progress on this since.

What I really needed was a car I could look at to get a proper idea how the engine want into the chassis. Recently Andrew kindly arranged for me to visit a friend of his who had a Vixen S1 on the road so I could see how the engine was arranged and finally get this project back on track.

Anyhow, I spent an enjoyable couple of hours chatting and talking old TVRs and took a look at his very nice Vixen to check the engine fitment. It turns out that the engine does sit so that the clutch slave lug and the starter mounting on the bell housing both sit above the lower chassis rail. Great. So when I got home I levelled off the chassis using the lower rails as the datum and fitted the engine in where it ought to goal levelled out side to side and back to front.

It turns out that with all this done, the gearbox mount is 30mm above the mounting brackets on the chassis



This was a bit of a surprise.

Could it be that I am missing a part of the gearbox mounting? From looking at other vixens I didn't think so, as the gearbox mount seems to bolt straight to the plate, however, the only image I have of a series one gearbox mount looks like there might be some sort of spacer in there.



I don't have anything that looks like a spacer in my boxes of bits

Does anyone know what is happening here?

I don't think the engine is supposed to lean backwards, and the bell housing looks more or less the same as for other S1s I have seen, so I am a bit stumped

Any ideas?

[Astacus]

Thanks Rene,

The close up is in fact of Tonys car. He sent me a photo from the other side! I have e mailed him to see if he has any more information.

[Astacus]

Neil, do you recall a spacer in there when you stripped your S1?