NISSAN LMP1...were they right?
Discussion
After attending the 2015 Le Mans test day, viewing most of the Periscope and other social media bits and bobs they did, watching 18 hours of the race online I felt a bit let down by Nissan. I wasn't expecting them to win, let's just be clear about that from the start. I suppose I wasn't even expecting them to be that competitive.
However, Darren Cox did say after the Bowling Green test that they would defiantly be in front of the LMP2 cars on the Radio Le Mans Midweek Motorsport show....and they just weren't. It is a radical concept and I applaud them for what they have done and how open they have been, but surely they shouldn't have been at Le Mans this year.
No Hybrid until 2016 when running in a Hybrid class doesn't seem like a team ready to race. Yes they now have lots of data and Jann said on RLM that they already had guys at the circuit designing a new gearbox which is really amazing as they were still racing at that point. I just look at Porsche who came back last year and are now winning plus showing real pace in the WEC season so far, I wouldn't put money on Nissan doing the same in their second year.
So my question is, were the right to come back so early or should they have waited till next year after more testing? (note: I'm not belittling what they have achieved and all the hard work they have done to get to where they are, I just think they have come back to early)
However, Darren Cox did say after the Bowling Green test that they would defiantly be in front of the LMP2 cars on the Radio Le Mans Midweek Motorsport show....and they just weren't. It is a radical concept and I applaud them for what they have done and how open they have been, but surely they shouldn't have been at Le Mans this year.
No Hybrid until 2016 when running in a Hybrid class doesn't seem like a team ready to race. Yes they now have lots of data and Jann said on RLM that they already had guys at the circuit designing a new gearbox which is really amazing as they were still racing at that point. I just look at Porsche who came back last year and are now winning plus showing real pace in the WEC season so far, I wouldn't put money on Nissan doing the same in their second year.
So my question is, were the right to come back so early or should they have waited till next year after more testing? (note: I'm not belittling what they have achieved and all the hard work they have done to get to where they are, I just think they have come back to early)
Probably want to advance the technology, although I'm not sure either, I think its doing something for the sake of doing it.
According to this Autosport article they also want to start making Delta Wing road cars
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118148
According to this Autosport article they also want to start making Delta Wing road cars
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/118148
freedman said:
Nissan are a major manufacturer, not a tiny team who have just about got the resource to get a working car to LM
I thought their effort was laughable TBH, 20 seconds off the pace in qualifying, and even worse in the race
This is a team that 20 years ago had some of the fastest cars ever seen at Le Mans
A case of trying to do something different for the sake of it, not because its a revolutionary idea the other teams have missed
This says it all really.I thought their effort was laughable TBH, 20 seconds off the pace in qualifying, and even worse in the race
This is a team that 20 years ago had some of the fastest cars ever seen at Le Mans
A case of trying to do something different for the sake of it, not because its a revolutionary idea the other teams have missed
I now understand why they spent so much money on trackside advertising and TV and Radio AD's as they knew the car wasn't going to get any race coverage
acer12 said:
While it has been a failure on the track, I think that Cox's continued arrogance writing cheques he couldn't cash made it many many times worse. Cant see him staying on, he deserves to go.
He's in charge of all the NISMO global projects so not just LMP1. I don't think they will get rid of him and I think they could get competitive with time, I just think they should have waited another year.Here is another question, were they wrong to be based in the US? They did all their testing there and while they do have a unit at Silverstone Park which they use for 1 month of the year, was being away from testing at European tracks away from european talent another hinderance?!
PW said:
Those issues were caused by abandoning the entire hybrid system, not just the rear drive aspect.
And it's this point that I don't understand. How can the FIA/WEC allow them to race in the hybrid class when they don't have one? Obviously it's an easy answer and they have to be seen to be with the other works teams but do they at least even have to carry the system?Be interesting to see them in Germany
While its true they have been excellent at social media and engaging with the fans, this could very quickly turn into a PR nightmare. The more I hear from Darren Cox the less credible he sounds. I'm not trying to take away from their accomplishments, which are many, but now they just seem to be retreating.
I also can't tell Nissan how to spend their money, but they need to show up to all the remaining WEC rounds and commit to the new LMP1 rules. He goes on about how Audi have 15 years experience, well commit to the championship and get on with it like everyone else.
I also can't tell Nissan how to spend their money, but they need to show up to all the remaining WEC rounds and commit to the new LMP1 rules. He goes on about how Audi have 15 years experience, well commit to the championship and get on with it like everyone else.
chevronb37 said:
I’m starting to feel the same. One of the reasons cited for the alternative approach was that Audi has 15 years in the game. Well, Peugeot produced a supremely quick car straight out of the box, Toyota ditto and look at Porsche – Le Mans winners in year two. Given the correct staffing, support and resources, Nissan had every reason to be ‘credible’ - as he stressed.
I actually think the programme is looking the opposite of credible. The car is miles off the pace, unreliable and I’m afraid that crediting oneself as ‘the fan favourite’ is immodest and does no justice to any claims to be ‘racers’. I’d sacrifice all the open source, fan engagement in exchange for a fast, legitimate and credible LMP1 car.
I whole-heartedly support any major works race programme but I think this has been poorly executed.
Great Post! But....moving forward, they are where they are. They can't and I imagine wont, as it isn't the Japanese way to back down and change the car now, so what do they do?I actually think the programme is looking the opposite of credible. The car is miles off the pace, unreliable and I’m afraid that crediting oneself as ‘the fan favourite’ is immodest and does no justice to any claims to be ‘racers’. I’d sacrifice all the open source, fan engagement in exchange for a fast, legitimate and credible LMP1 car.
I whole-heartedly support any major works race programme but I think this has been poorly executed.
They have to get on with making the hybrid work and better cornering. They do have a quick straight line speed but aerodynamically in the corners they are slow and overall the car is unreliable. I hope they make it work as I think its good for WEC to have more manufactures but I think Darren needs to get off his high horse and get on with the work in hand.
MissChief said:
Porsche used a Flywheel based system developed by Williams in a 911 based car I believe? There have been a few others as well I'm sure. The flywheel sits in a vacuum chamber in the cockpit to the right of the driver in the 911.
Doesn't it spin at something stupid like 60,000rpm and can gain 19,000rpm a second. I think a Top Gear mag article also said the outer edge of the flywheel is doing 47,000g, creating its own sonic boom.Would be a really bad day if the flywheel casing failed.
Funny thing about the DSC interview is Darren Cox saying that the reason they entered in 2015 was they wanted a 2 year program before the 2017 rule changes. Based on what's happened isn't it basically what will happen if they don't return in 2015? They will continue to test, might show up at Bahrain to see what it's like and then all they have is 1 season with however much they've spent. It's all ok though....Darren is being really open with the fans.
Yup they want the attention. They will say in 2016 that they've proved all the nay sayers wrong and they got a lot of unjust criticism for being innovators but they can't admit they've let the fans down and not supported the series like the other manufactures.
Painting NISMO all over the circuit is not the same as having 3 competitive cars on the track.
Painting NISMO all over the circuit is not the same as having 3 competitive cars on the track.
I think the point a lot of people are trying to make is that they should have waited until they were going to be competitive.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
They started off by saying that they would take it to Audi, Porsche & Toyota and they would be leading and winning. That quickly turned into we will be running the same times, which quickly turned into we should be quicker than the P2 cars which then turned into we just have a goal for 1 of our 3 cars to finish. It's been a PR disaster no matter how much effort they have put in.
Look at Ford. Alright it's a GTE car which is less complex then a P1 car, but they had a car that had been built, tested and up and running before the press release....it wasn't just a render. Darren Cox can go on about how their project is the quickest P1 project from board approval to race track (he quotes 14 months and you could play a drinking game on how many times he says it during every interview), it will be the quickest P1 project from approval to track to bin.
As exciting as it is, they should have waited a year.
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