'68 Alfa Romeo Gt Junior

'68 Alfa Romeo Gt Junior

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joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Tuesday 12th July 2011
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I've longed for one of these for many a year. I love the looks - its just so right, the advanced mechanics for the era and the tangible coolness. It seems to transend class too somehow, accepted as a great, yet obtainable for modest outlay. Aesthetically, for me the 105 coupe is up there with the expensive italian classics, but is far more of a realistic proposition!

This one is a GT Junior 1300; Alfa made the GTV cars, and then introduced the Juniors which started with a 1300cc engine and lower interior spec so more cool people could afford one in light of fuel taxes in the mid sixties. Its also a 'step front' - the earlier and more sought after series due to the increasing interest in converting these cars to race spec. Later 'smooth front' cars are outside the era for classic racing, but personally I prefer the step front look, as do many other classic Alfa fans. The car had a bare metal repaint in 2009; new sills, floors and front end. At that time the engine was swapped for a freshly rebuilt 1750 engine, thought to be the best compromise of revvy and torquey twin cam, and a rebuilt gearbox - so it is a car with all of the hard work done. There are still a few issues, but they're pretty easy to sort. Parts are readily available, and easy to fit with a bit of competence and the right tools.

The one thing I know I need to do is buy some new seats. Its fitted with leather Megane items currently which are comfy, but too high and shallow for my 6'4", meaning my knees poke up at 8:15 either side of the lovely Hellebore wood rimmed wheel and my hair brushes the roof. I'm thinking along the lines of a classic fixed bucket with head restraint. I've found some Cobreau Alpines in quilt stitched leather with black cord cushions at the right price. I'd like to fit a period or retro radio too, as it has a jazzy Alpine h/u fitted at the mo. My aim is to get the car back to period fast road spec throughout, and use it lots! It needs some tidying first.






Edited by joesnow on Tuesday 12th July 12:11

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Tuesday 12th July 2011
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I drove it to and from work yesterday. I laughed 3 times. I can't remember the last time I did that behind the wheel! Its a great experience, not so much about the destination or speed, but the enjoyment of getting there.

Heres a slightly tongue in cheek write up about collecting the car on Sunday.

I went to pick the car up. I was a little apprehensive about the 3 hour drive home, as I'm sure anyone would with a relatively unknown 44 year old car. Since its restoration the owner had used it often, but not taken it on a long run. Would I get home, would I break down, would something fall off? All these things were at the back of my mind.

On seeing the car again, I couldn't wait to get behind the wheel. The owner had refitted the chrome bumpers, which I prefer on the GT Junior. I think I'll be keeping them on rather than imitating the GTA look. Once the cash had been handed over, and counted by visiting French relatives (!) I was on my way. Perched quite high on the retro fitted Megane seats, my hair was brushing the roof lining, and my right knee was jammed between the mainbeam stalk and the door panel. I also had to lean forward to get a decent view out of the rear view mirror. However, as I began to get used to the weight of the controls, I started enjoying myself. The rorty exhaust note is great, and there is useful power between 2000 and 4000 rpm. The long gearbox throw is precise, and the floorhinged pedals positive and feelsome to use. The steering is low geared, non assisted and requires some heft at slow speeds. It can also become light over camber changes which needs getting used to. The Hellebore wooden wheel is lovely to use with a push ring horn integrated into the three spokes.

After stopping for petrol and a bottle of water I joined the M11. Setting the car at at indicated 70 I was being overtaken by everyone. Curious to eveyone's hurry, I turned on the satnav I had with me, and that was indicating 55mph. Oh! An indicated 90 was better, the car easily coping with 70mph+ at around 4000 rpm. I put this down to the engine and gearbox change from the 1300 to the 1750. Mental note number 1.

As I pressed on, I found that if I moved the mainbeam stalk up into mainbeam position, it didn't turn on the lights, and stopped digging into my leg. Much more comfortable.

I'd set off with the window open, but as the breeze became too much I managed to wind up the window manipulating the winder in the small space between wheel-leg-door. There was quite a bit of wind noise around the door frame, and I could see daylight between the A pillar and window frame. Mental note number 2. The quarterlights are delightful as they are opened by a small wheel located on the door. You turn the wheel and the quarterlight gracefully opens up on a gear. I opened these on eitherside of the car to get a bit of air in and reduce the wind whistle.

50 miles on and I was amongst the F1 traffic on the M1. I could see an approaching rain cloud and wondered how the electrics were shielded in the engine bay. 10 miles later and the rain hit. The lovely little centre set wipers did a great job of wiping the rain away when I hit the tactile two speed rocker switch mounted on the dash. I also had to work out where the lights were. Something I hadn't though to ask the owner. I tentatively tried the other rocker switches to no avail, so had a go with the mainbeam stalk. This actually rotates, turning on sidelights, and then after another click the headlights. Of course I had to have dipped, so it was back to the knee jabbing! Mental note number 3.

I peeled off the M1 early to fill up again - £35 of unleaded, and took the backroads for the rest of the journey which are where the Alfa really excels. The car is small, nimble and fairly nippy, stringing together corners easily, the high profile tyres absorbing the bumps. Everything happens at lower speeds which was one of the things that attracted me to this type of car. In the 3.2 M3 you need to be pressing on to experience its dynamics, in the Alfa they are there much earlier which is more enjoyable for more of the time.

The car developed a light clicking sound which I thought may be the top end of the engine due to 3hrs at speed. An embarrassing schoolboy error really, as an immediate check showed that the oil was very low, taking 3 litres to get back on the right part of the stick. I think lack of attention by the previous owner, plus my 3hr trip were the causes as there are no drips and the block is clean.

This morning I got out into my commute, and on adjusting the quarterlight, the supporting chrome arm fell off - bugger, leaving the small window secured by the rotating gear at its base, and unable to seal properly. I was hoping that it wouldn't just fall out! It looks as though this part had been repaired previously and was weak. I'm looking into a replacement, which may end up being a new frame.

So on balance, some jobs to do, but over all I'm thrilled to bits with it.

Edited by joesnow on Tuesday 12th July 13:36

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Tuesday 12th July 2011
quotequote all
greggy50 said:
Lovely really want to own one of these in a few year's as a classic to replace the mini. What are they like for space I am 6 foot 2 would I have any hope of fitting inside?
Also how much does a car like this this cost nowadays imagine is a 5 figure sum frown
Well, I'm 6'4" and fit well enough for a 3hr drive. It'll be much more accomodating when I've fitted my new seats.
I got a cracking deal, as I picked it up for less than its expected £15,000. Original cars go for more, but bear in mind this was the bottom of the range model with upgrades. At this price there were some step fronts that needed bodywork and engine work, a couple of original 1300 GT Juniors with smooth fronts, and late 2000 GTVs. I think the step front sprints, gtvs and gta reps go for around 20.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
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Thanks men.

Ive used the alfa for commuting 3 days this week and it's a joy. It takes longer to get to work in the morning over my 20 mile commute, but I've sought out the a roads that run alongside the duel carriageway. It's been really great, sun, window open a bit and an raspy twincam to listen to.

This evening I had a few hours so took the armchairs out of the car to have a go putting my cobreau alpines in. I took out the passenger side one first and sized up the runners with the new seats, not a match. Oh! The new subframes are much narrower than the existing set up, so it's more than an hours job go fit them. Once I'd resined myself to the fact I gave the car a vacuum as it was full of dog hair (!) and wiped down inside. It was in a bit if a mess. Then I washed it.

It absolutely gleams now!

I went for a drive and took a couple if shots which I'll upload shortly.

Plan of action is to get the car checked over by a work friend who rebuilds formula cars from the 70s and then get a local trials car builder to fit the seats for me. After that I don't know really. Just get on enjoying the car.

Velocemitch: no LSD as I found out on Monday around an island smile also im wondering if the speedo is left over from the 1300 days. The car was found in a barn in 1990. It had the later brakes (atc?) and a gta style dash and instruments. Thes things had been specd at the factory apparently!

More soon. Thanks for looking.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 14th July 2011
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joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Friday 15th July 2011
quotequote all
Thinking about things on the way to work this morning, and I have a list of things I'd like to work on.

Interior
- Re finish the dash, as there are a few empty holes, and the vinyl is bubbled in places. This may be in a sympathetic wood effect vinyl, or maybe a flat colour. I don't know yet, but maybe refinish the dash top in black/dark grey alcantarta.
- Fit a period radio with updated internals and a usb lead
- Drill holes in the rear parcel shelf to allow sound through from the speakers fitted underneath
- Fit speaker under the central dash mounted grille
- Obtain an original gearknob to replace the leather one fitted
- Fit my new seats
- Sort a 12v plug
- Isolate the car a bit from wind noise around the window frame
- fix fuel gauge

Mechanicals
- Rejet the Webers for smoother running at low rpm. Its a bit jumpy and at present
- fit limited slip differential
- Brake overhaul (currently pre pressing to get decent pressure)
- sort out ticking sound. This is, I think, down to the speedo as is speed related irrespective of revs.

Others
- Surface corrosion on sills cleaned and sealed
- Underside inspection and touch up where needed
- source a gta spare wheel
- slow the indicator speed down a bit!

Edited by joesnow on Friday 15th July 09:07

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Friday 15th July 2011
quotequote all
It would also add more arm twirling!

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 21st July 2011
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Yes, it was for sale through Alfaholics, somewhere else at a higher price, and also included for auction at Goodwood (the owners' last resort). I basically covered the previous owners costs which made me happier than he.

Went on a proper drive around my locale last night, roundabouts are great fun, as are flowing roads. You feel so much through the wheel as it weights up and then goes light depending on camber. Fantastic. Its going in for a thorough inspection and tune up in a couple of weeks. I have been promised that it will be running better and stronger as a result of the air/fuel being adjusted and a possible reject of the webers.

I may make a short video.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Friday 22nd July 2011
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Hi Mitch, Yes it is on 45's currently with the airbox sitting on the other side of the engine bay and the wrapped induction pipe running across the engine.

I do have the cylindrical airbox that affixes the carbs, but suspect this would be for use with original carburetors (Delortos?).

Presently there is little induction noise, mostly exhaust and wind, so I wouldn't be adversed to some snarl from under the bonnet, we had a TR4 on unfiltered 45s and it sounded like a Submarine Spitfire down the bottom of the rev counter http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... However, I wouldn't want it to dominate too much. What do you think about long trumpets and a foam filter? Too far?

I'm happy with the performance currently as it matches the rest of the aspects of the car, but suspect it'll run sweeter after its been through my friends workshop. He currently has a 70s Tyrrel F1, 3 Hispano Suizas (sp?) a Ferrari 308 and my Dad's Spectre at his place. Its always interesting to pop by. He tunes carbs on his rolling road.


joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Friday 22nd July 2011
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Silly phone.

Sent from my iPhone

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Monday 10th October 2011
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Well, I got the car back from its first fettle, and the work I've had done has definately been an improvement.

Here's a list:
- Electronic ignition fitted to replace points, neatly fitted into the distributor housing
- New seat crossmembers made and Corbeau Alpine seats fitted - tight fit, but hold you in well and are comfy. Much better lower and further back in the car
- Quarterlight repaired, so less wind noise from the frame
- Door opener rods relocated and fettled to fix external and internal handle issues
- Inside of doors cleaned and waxoiled
- Door drains opened up, cleaned and sealed
- Carbs adjusted

I think it'll be after Christmas now, but next on the hit list will be:
- Clutch
- Clutch pedal placement
- Replace perished rubbber carb mounts
Plus a few other bits

In the meantime, I've got a small front number plate and a headlight bulb to replace, and a few stonechips to fill.

I've been trying to track the history of the car, as the file I have suggests it was a special order, with the earlier flat dash, 15" wheels and some other performnace bits. The car has changed colour twice since then and currently has Alfaholics GTA style alloys, so is far from original. I'd be nice to know how it was when it left the factory. I have the details back from Alfa Romeo about build date and that the car was delivered to a dealership in London, but that's as far as I've got. Next thing to do is request a list of previous owners through DVLA, and see if I can get in touch somehow.

I managed to find a bit of time to clean and photograph the car, so here are the latest offerings.

















joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 13th October 2011
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It was like that when I got the car, and seemingly does little for the positioning. I've heard of a short pedal or some such thing, but I think that would shorten the pedal travel.

Wish I had the time to work on the car myself, but too busy working to fund it and everything else. Isn't that always the way? Efficient though.

My mechanic would like to reposition the clutch pedal. At present you really have to push into the carpet to get a good change. The car is proving a reliable and fun companion and I use it a few days a week at present. I reacon it'd be rather ace in the snow as well with thinner tyres. Good so long as I could avoid the salt.

Edited by joesnow on Thursday 13th October 13:17

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 13th October 2011
quotequote all
I've been in touch with the chap who rebuilt the engine, and he's given me the spec of the drivetrain. Will post it when I get chance. Quite interesting hearing the history behind it - more for the file.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Monday 17th October 2011
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I think we could do with a 105gt appreciation thread, like the miura one!

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Sunday 23rd October 2011
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Great work Dinks. I've been away in the East for a week, so will find some beauties to post up.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Sunday 23rd October 2011
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VM: heres the drivetrain spec:

The gearbox is not original, it is from a later car and has the higher .79 fifth ratio instead of the 1300's .86. This was fitted with the larger engine, freshly overhauled by Bob Dove and should be no trouble. I do not know what speedometer drive is fitted however. The axle is the original as far as I know and is probably 4.55:1 giving you gearing that is standard for a 1600cc car. The intermediate ratios are the same for all boxes, so you have 1750 spec except for the axle which should be 4.1:1 as standard.

I have a bit of a clunk coming from the diff when the car is moving at slow speed, so will look into this at some point, maybe at the same time upgrading to the 1750 spec.

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
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velocemitch said:
I've got a spare 1750 Axle in my Garage, but it's non LSD, I'd expect you want an LSD??

I thought the drive train would be as you say, it does explain why the speedo is out it will always read high with a 4.55 in it.

The clunk might be the UJ's, mind does it too, it's not unusual.
That is quite tempting Mitch, I'll sit on that one for a while. I take it you can retro fit an lsd?

What I'd like to achieve is a longer reach in 5th. Currently 70mph feels ok, but any more than 4500 and the engine thrums which I try not to subject it to too often. Am I right in thinking that the 4.55 would achieve this - bring the speedo and rpm back down?

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
Sorry, yes the 4:1!

That sounds about right. To overtake I sometimes go up to around 80, which I feel is overworking the engine a bit and approaching 5k on the tach! Is it an easy change Mitch? I take it the brakes would swap over ok.

I'm going to a Red Letter driving day at Rockingham on Sunday - skid control and power drifting instruction. I'm driving the backroads over there from Derby in the Alfa - really looking forward to a good cross country drive. Don't worry, I'll be skidding Rockingham's BMW!

Edited by joesnow on Thursday 24th November 13:16

joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 24th November 2011
quotequote all
http://www.classicalfa.com/products/GB070-LIGHTWEI...

Bit pricey, but maybe once I've sorted all the niggles!


joesnow

Original Poster:

1,533 posts

228 months

Thursday 5th January 2012
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Well not much to report, but as there hasn't been much salt about over the break, I've made the most of it and got out and about in the gt, including a drive down to little Norwood nr. Milton Keynes for new years. It started to rain torrentially on the way which the car coped with admirably. The two speed wipers which were an upgrade by the previous owner were quick enough to cope with the worst of it.

A bit of free time allowed me to fit these:

Correct size pressed plate


Correct gear knob


And aroc key fob


I have this list of things to do:
New tachometer and speedo cables to sort clicking
Squeaky spongy brakes to sort
Clutch to replace
Cylindrical airbox to fit
New carb mounts to fit
1750 back axle with LSD to source
Brake lights to fix
Stone chips to touch up
Surface corrosion on sills to rub down and seal (underseal?)