Saab 900 T16S "The Exxon Valdez"
Discussion
Seeing as how my 99 turbo is unlikely to see the road any time soon, I was feeling the need for something Saab in my life again. Allow me to introduce my new purchase to you, purchased from the UK Saabs classifieds having been owned by two or three members over there previously.
The naming comes from the humungous oil leak (made clear in the advert BTW, not unexpectd) that pretty much emptied the gearbox during the 135 mile trip home from Lincoln, a journey that was otherwise uneventful, enjoyable and very comfortable in the superb 9000 Aero seats that have been retro fitted.
First impressions are that this is a very straight, clean car with a strong engine that drives very well despite having done over 220k miles.
The oil leak is obviously priority one, after that the exhaust needs some attention and from the drive home I suspect that the replacement of a couple of ball joints and maybe the rear torque arm bushes wouldn't go amiss..
Pics of the old girl as she arrived home.
For SOTW money, I'm pretty happy so far
The naming comes from the humungous oil leak (made clear in the advert BTW, not unexpectd) that pretty much emptied the gearbox during the 135 mile trip home from Lincoln, a journey that was otherwise uneventful, enjoyable and very comfortable in the superb 9000 Aero seats that have been retro fitted.
First impressions are that this is a very straight, clean car with a strong engine that drives very well despite having done over 220k miles.
The oil leak is obviously priority one, after that the exhaust needs some attention and from the drive home I suspect that the replacement of a couple of ball joints and maybe the rear torque arm bushes wouldn't go amiss..
Pics of the old girl as she arrived home.
For SOTW money, I'm pretty happy so far
Cheers all for the kind comments
Clutch shaft oil seal is on order, will update when I try to fit it - apparently they are a bit of a bugger!!
kwak said:
I love it! Didn't know the 9000 aero seats fitted without compromising space too much either, nice to know.
They're fine for front seat passengers, but of course coming from a 4-door 9000, they don't tilt for access to the rear. The electrics are all hooked up though so it should be possible to set up one of the memory settings as fully forward with the back fully upright...Clutch shaft oil seal is on order, will update when I try to fit it - apparently they are a bit of a bugger!!
iva cosworth said:
Shouldn't be too difficult.
Remove clutch,lever out seal,tap in a new one.
Remove clutch,lever out seal,tap in a new one.
In essence, yes, doddle, how hard can it be...Slightly concerned that the PO has already replaced the seal once without curing the problem, however upon removing the clutch I found one of the slave cylinder bolts to be missing.
I'm not sure if the slave bolt holes go all the way through the chain casing? Could it be as simple as the missing bolt being the cause of the leak?
s3fella said:
If oil leak was that bad, you should not have driven it on the road IMO. You could inadvertently have a biker off when it rains tomorrow!
If you don't want to pay for it to be towed, at least get some AA cover or equivalent that allows you cover for any car you are in, then drive it off the guys drive and call them.
Of course it may not be that bad and you may be embellishing a bit dornartsitic effect, but driving a car with a known serious oil leak is out of order in my book.
It's slippery stuff and our two wheeled friends ( motorised and not) have one more slick to deal with now, a 135 mile long one!
I agree, driving a vehicle with any sort of known fluid leak isn't ideal.If you don't want to pay for it to be towed, at least get some AA cover or equivalent that allows you cover for any car you are in, then drive it off the guys drive and call them.
Of course it may not be that bad and you may be embellishing a bit dornartsitic effect, but driving a car with a known serious oil leak is out of order in my book.
It's slippery stuff and our two wheeled friends ( motorised and not) have one more slick to deal with now, a 135 mile long one!
My understanding upon purchasing the vehicle was that there was indeed a leak which required attention, but that the previous owner had been using the vehicle in that condition for several months, only needing to top the gearbox up once during that period and again just before collection to make sure I had no issues on the journey home. Clearly the leak is now worse than that degree of topping up would suggest.
The missing bolt from the clutch slave may be a factor in that, since at least one (web) source suggests that slightly loose bolts can weep, so it would seem logical that an entirely missing one would piddle!
In naming the car as I have, obviously I am intentionally conjuring up images of a giant oil slick.
However, realistically, even to go from full to empty on the gearbox dipstick is about one litre of oil, which works out as about a teaspoon and a half per mile!!
And quite possibly half of that is still in the engine bay and coating the underside of the car anyway...
s3fella said:
Car looks nice though.
Cheers! GRRRR!!!! 
Spent last night thoroughly degreasing the clutch components, gearbox and engine bay from the oil spillage (and spray from the flywheel). Luckily the pressure plate appears to have avoided any contamination although how, I'm not really sure...
Clutch and slave are both new so refitted everything carefully, pressure bled the clutch and went to test it - no pedal pressure. Pumped a few times, nothing.
Went back to look, slave cylinder peeing fluid out everywhere - including this time into the pressure plate by the looks of it. Not a happy bunny, closed the bonnet and went off to kick the cat!!
Spent last night thoroughly degreasing the clutch components, gearbox and engine bay from the oil spillage (and spray from the flywheel). Luckily the pressure plate appears to have avoided any contamination although how, I'm not really sure...
Clutch and slave are both new so refitted everything carefully, pressure bled the clutch and went to test it - no pedal pressure. Pumped a few times, nothing.
Went back to look, slave cylinder peeing fluid out everywhere - including this time into the pressure plate by the looks of it. Not a happy bunny, closed the bonnet and went off to kick the cat!!
iva cosworth said:
I stripped down plenty of these boxes BITD but can't remember if bolts go right through
to casing.I THINK they did,so missing bolt would cause a leak.
Yes, they do go right through, and on that basis I had elected not to replace the (already new) seal again, just visually inspected it, ran a fingertip around the inside etc. Looks and feels fine.to casing.I THINK they did,so missing bolt would cause a leak.
However! I'm starting to think this car hates me!
Began stripping it back down again last night and the second bolt holding the pressure plate to the flywheel snapped clean off at the head! I didn't overtighten them - honest! Probably not the end of the world, just an added nuisance. Closed the bonnet and went off to kick the cat, again!!
Made a bit of progress yesterday, after a short pause whilst waiting for a genuine slave cylinder to arrive.
In the absence of both a working slave cylinder and the Saab special tool to compress the clutch cover springs, I used the "nuts and bolts" method to gain the clearance to get the spacer ring into the clutch.
[
] Basically this involves levering the cover away from the flywheel enough to place a nut between the two, and then threading longer bolts through the cover, the aforementioned nut and into the flywheel.
Repeat all the way round and then the nuts can be sequentially rotated to lever the clutch cover away from the flywheel evenly by about 20mm all round until the spacer ring can be inserted into the fingers of the clutch cover springs.
The nuts and bolts can then be removed and the spacer ring holds the cover in the "depressed" position as though you have your foot on the clutch. This then gives the required clearance for the whole lot to be removed. [/]
Did I say depressed? Well you will be if you ever need to do this...
Anyway, clutch removed, and pleased to see that it has still managed to avoid contamination, so that is some expense saved
Old slave out (remember this is not actually old at all) and stripped for examination. Seals look ok, but the piston has large areas where the smooth machined finish that the seal has to seal to, has large pits in it.
It isn't corrosion, it looks more like the surface layer has separated from the metal behind it... A manufacturing fault I would suspect, and makes me glad I paid the extra for a genuine replacement (which hopefully doesn't come from the same production line..)
As for the snapped bolt in the flywheel, I knew it wasn't rusted in, and with the head snapped off there shouldn't be any torque on it any more, so I figured it shouldn't need much turning force to remove.
The was only a very small and uneven stump of bolt standing proud of the flywheel, but it was enough to cut a tiny slot in with a dremel and then using a fine screwdriver I got it turning. Had to re-cut the slot a couple of times as it still needed quite a bit of force a first, but eventually it came out and importantly without any damage to the thread in the flywheel.
Interesting point re: the snapped clutch -> flywheel bolt.
None of these bolts had any markings on the heads (8.8 or similar) so not sure if these were the original ones, or whether they had been replaced with cheap "no grade" bolts at some point.
When I examined the others, all had very noticeable stretching of the bolt / thread just under the bolt head, so all the others were well on their way to failure too. Don't use cheap fasteners folks!!
Anyway, my back cried "enough!" at that point so re-assembly today if the rain stops...
In the absence of both a working slave cylinder and the Saab special tool to compress the clutch cover springs, I used the "nuts and bolts" method to gain the clearance to get the spacer ring into the clutch.
[
] Basically this involves levering the cover away from the flywheel enough to place a nut between the two, and then threading longer bolts through the cover, the aforementioned nut and into the flywheel. Repeat all the way round and then the nuts can be sequentially rotated to lever the clutch cover away from the flywheel evenly by about 20mm all round until the spacer ring can be inserted into the fingers of the clutch cover springs.
The nuts and bolts can then be removed and the spacer ring holds the cover in the "depressed" position as though you have your foot on the clutch. This then gives the required clearance for the whole lot to be removed. [/
]Did I say depressed? Well you will be if you ever need to do this...
Anyway, clutch removed, and pleased to see that it has still managed to avoid contamination, so that is some expense saved
Old slave out (remember this is not actually old at all) and stripped for examination. Seals look ok, but the piston has large areas where the smooth machined finish that the seal has to seal to, has large pits in it.
It isn't corrosion, it looks more like the surface layer has separated from the metal behind it... A manufacturing fault I would suspect, and makes me glad I paid the extra for a genuine replacement (which hopefully doesn't come from the same production line..)
As for the snapped bolt in the flywheel, I knew it wasn't rusted in, and with the head snapped off there shouldn't be any torque on it any more, so I figured it shouldn't need much turning force to remove.
The was only a very small and uneven stump of bolt standing proud of the flywheel, but it was enough to cut a tiny slot in with a dremel and then using a fine screwdriver I got it turning. Had to re-cut the slot a couple of times as it still needed quite a bit of force a first, but eventually it came out and importantly without any damage to the thread in the flywheel.
Interesting point re: the snapped clutch -> flywheel bolt.
None of these bolts had any markings on the heads (8.8 or similar) so not sure if these were the original ones, or whether they had been replaced with cheap "no grade" bolts at some point.
When I examined the others, all had very noticeable stretching of the bolt / thread just under the bolt head, so all the others were well on their way to failure too. Don't use cheap fasteners folks!!
Anyway, my back cried "enough!" at that point so re-assembly today if the rain stops...
Edited by 99t on Sunday 2nd September 17:08
GC8 said:
Was the name Exxon Valdez given due to its ability to spill oil and pollute, or as a nod to its handling prowess? 
Well now the leak is fixed, yes probably the handling. The un-pronounceable brand of ditchfinders fitted probably won't help..IroningMan said:
Those bolts would have locking compound on them if they were OEM, wouldn't they?
I believe so, yes.Anyway, next problem now, it won't go into 5th gear...
Ok panic over.
Having stripped, cleaned and reassembled the shifter mechanism and reverse gear lock out, still without gaining the use of fifth gear, I read up on the problem and it appears to only take a very small misalignment in the linkage to make 5th hard to engage. Failing engine mounts are often suggested as a probable couse.
Checked mine and sure enough the (hydraulic) offside mount is starting to ooze black gunk. With assistance from the future Mrs 99t levering the mount upwards with a large screwdriver, I checked the gears again and 5th had become selectable
As a quick fix until a new mount is obtained I have bodged the problem by loosening and retightening the shifter retaining screws with the shifter pushed slightly to one side to mirror the offset, all gears now selectable and actually the shift is probably better than it has ever been!
Having stripped, cleaned and reassembled the shifter mechanism and reverse gear lock out, still without gaining the use of fifth gear, I read up on the problem and it appears to only take a very small misalignment in the linkage to make 5th hard to engage. Failing engine mounts are often suggested as a probable couse.
Checked mine and sure enough the (hydraulic) offside mount is starting to ooze black gunk. With assistance from the future Mrs 99t levering the mount upwards with a large screwdriver, I checked the gears again and 5th had become selectable
As a quick fix until a new mount is obtained I have bodged the problem by loosening and retightening the shifter retaining screws with the shifter pushed slightly to one side to mirror the offset, all gears now selectable and actually the shift is probably better than it has ever been!
Thanks, the front mount looks ok at the moment.
I've put a few miles on EV now and all seems well, no signs of any further leakage. I'm really enjoying the mid-range poke that these things are famous for. First and second gears are a bit pointless as they just produce wheel spin but third, fourth and fifth are good fun and the urge available at 70(ish) in fifth with just a twitch of the ankle is addictive and makes me grin every time.
A previous owner has commented that EV has the best engine out of a number of T16's that he has owned and although I have no idea what sort of power it is producing, it feels much quicker than my Octavia VRS which theoretically has a similar power to weight ratio to a bog-standard T16. Of course as an older, high mileage car with greater amounts of NVH present, EV may simply feel quicker than it really is..
Saturday will be a good test anyway; I'm taking EV to a trackday at Aintree Circuit. Due to time constraints, preparation is going to consist of checking the tyre pressures and fluid levels and filling up with super unleaded. I've not driven Aintree before so I will be taking it fairly steady, so hopefully both EV and I will survive the day!!
I've put a few miles on EV now and all seems well, no signs of any further leakage. I'm really enjoying the mid-range poke that these things are famous for. First and second gears are a bit pointless as they just produce wheel spin but third, fourth and fifth are good fun and the urge available at 70(ish) in fifth with just a twitch of the ankle is addictive and makes me grin every time.
A previous owner has commented that EV has the best engine out of a number of T16's that he has owned and although I have no idea what sort of power it is producing, it feels much quicker than my Octavia VRS which theoretically has a similar power to weight ratio to a bog-standard T16. Of course as an older, high mileage car with greater amounts of NVH present, EV may simply feel quicker than it really is..
Saturday will be a good test anyway; I'm taking EV to a trackday at Aintree Circuit. Due to time constraints, preparation is going to consist of checking the tyre pressures and fluid levels and filling up with super unleaded. I've not driven Aintree before so I will be taking it fairly steady, so hopefully both EV and I will survive the day!!
Cheers! Made it to the lunch break without wreckage - actually that word was meant to be breakage but predictive's choice of word is possibly better!
Finished the last session with a worrying rattle from under the bonnet but it was just the battery heat shield working loose and rattling against the turbo elbow. 'Tis a touch warm at the moment but will tighten back up ok when I can touch it!!
Finished the last session with a worrying rattle from under the bonnet but it was just the battery heat shield working loose and rattling against the turbo elbow. 'Tis a touch warm at the moment but will tighten back up ok when I can touch it!!
Last update, EV and I were half way through a track day at Aintree Circuit. And a really good fun day it was, with no mechanical failures, although it did reveal just how tired the front suspension was and pretty much finished off the already blowing exhaust.
It was also the day on which EV's MOT ran out and given that quite a bit of work was needed, I SORN'ed the old girl and parked her up - awaiting a bit of dry weather before cracking on. And I waited, and waited...
Finally a dry day allowed me to strip the front suspension, which went smoothly until I tried to undo the upper nuts on the offside damper and found the damper to be rotating quite freely in the inner wing with accompanying crunchy rust noises. This plus restricted access made the nuts impossible to undo and I eventually resorted to the angle grinder to remove the damper.
Destroying a perfectly good damper
Umm, well maybe not so good after all
This hole should only be about 10mm round
Found a suitably sized thick washer and broke out the welder, hateful upside-down welding but solid enough and should do the job.
Around the same time I got around to fitting a good used offside engine mount to replace the leaky original
Fitted new ball joints to the steering knuckles (much easier done on the workbench)
Then winter arrived (ok pretty mild compared to what some people got) and both EV and I went into hibernation...
It was also the day on which EV's MOT ran out and given that quite a bit of work was needed, I SORN'ed the old girl and parked her up - awaiting a bit of dry weather before cracking on. And I waited, and waited...
Finally a dry day allowed me to strip the front suspension, which went smoothly until I tried to undo the upper nuts on the offside damper and found the damper to be rotating quite freely in the inner wing with accompanying crunchy rust noises. This plus restricted access made the nuts impossible to undo and I eventually resorted to the angle grinder to remove the damper.
Destroying a perfectly good damper
Umm, well maybe not so good after all
This hole should only be about 10mm round
Found a suitably sized thick washer and broke out the welder, hateful upside-down welding but solid enough and should do the job.
Around the same time I got around to fitting a good used offside engine mount to replace the leaky original
Fitted new ball joints to the steering knuckles (much easier done on the workbench)
Then winter arrived (ok pretty mild compared to what some people got) and both EV and I went into hibernation...
Ok so winter had set in and progress stalled for a month or four.
Eventually the long suffering future Mrs 99tthrew her toys out of the pram (...erm scratch that it makes me sound like a paedo!!) said "move that wheel-less shed from the driveway by the end of April or take me out for a meal"!!
Well obviously I wasn't going to spring for a Sub, so I cracked on...
Lots of shiny bits
Brake caliper slider boot wasn't clever
Spares collection raided
Greased up and reassembled
Middle exhaust box had been damaged and botched previously
It also stepped the exhaust diameter down by at least 10mm so I elected to run a straight through pipe between the end of the downpipe (after cutting off damaged remains)...
and the back box.
At this point I was so engrossed in getting the car back together before the deadline, I forgot to take any more pictures!
This picture wasn't taken this year but you get the gist - car on wheels looking like a car again
MOT tomorrow...
Eventually the long suffering future Mrs 99t
Well obviously I wasn't going to spring for a Sub, so I cracked on...
Lots of shiny bits
Brake caliper slider boot wasn't clever
Spares collection raided
Greased up and reassembled
Middle exhaust box had been damaged and botched previously
It also stepped the exhaust diameter down by at least 10mm so I elected to run a straight through pipe between the end of the downpipe (after cutting off damaged remains)...
and the back box.
At this point I was so engrossed in getting the car back together before the deadline, I forgot to take any more pictures!
This picture wasn't taken this year but you get the gist - car on wheels looking like a car again
MOT tomorrow...
Bit of an overdue update, although to be fair there hasn't really been much to report - the old girl has been getting used quite infrequently, but has been 100% reliable and remains a joy to chuck around!
Spent a little bit of money in January sorting a couple of niggles:-
Bought this
to replace this which had long since lost its leather covering and even the plastic underneath was wearing smooth!! (the grooves are where the seams in the leather once sat, in case you were wondering, and didn't really add to its comfort in daily use..)
I expecting a fight removing the old knob, "rock and pull" the supplied instructions helpfully suggested, so when it came off stupidly easily whilst I was still applying maximum upward strength, I'm surprised I didn't end up in the back seat with a dislocated shoulder!!
Since the last update, the mid-range boominess resulting from deleting the centre exhaust box had become a steadily increasing source of irritation - and I felt was out of keeping with the overall image of the car, so it was once more out with the axle stands...
Old and new..
Checked the underside whilst up in the air - the old girl is mostly very clean, although there are one or two areas where work will definitely be needed in the not too distant future
And the new downpipe / cente box section fitted - it won't be that shiny for long!!
Result - much quieter, sound like a proper Saab again, rather than some boy-racer special. If the new section is more restrictive, it certainly isn't obvious from the drivers seat - with the cool air today the APC was allowing the boost needle well into the red zone and she was pulling rather well!!
Spent a little bit of money in January sorting a couple of niggles:-
Bought this
to replace this which had long since lost its leather covering and even the plastic underneath was wearing smooth!! (the grooves are where the seams in the leather once sat, in case you were wondering, and didn't really add to its comfort in daily use..)
I expecting a fight removing the old knob, "rock and pull" the supplied instructions helpfully suggested, so when it came off stupidly easily whilst I was still applying maximum upward strength, I'm surprised I didn't end up in the back seat with a dislocated shoulder!!
Since the last update, the mid-range boominess resulting from deleting the centre exhaust box had become a steadily increasing source of irritation - and I felt was out of keeping with the overall image of the car, so it was once more out with the axle stands...
Old and new..
Checked the underside whilst up in the air - the old girl is mostly very clean, although there are one or two areas where work will definitely be needed in the not too distant future
And the new downpipe / cente box section fitted - it won't be that shiny for long!!
Result - much quieter, sound like a proper Saab again, rather than some boy-racer special. If the new section is more restrictive, it certainly isn't obvious from the drivers seat - with the cool air today the APC was allowing the boost needle well into the red zone and she was pulling rather well!!
Boo!! Failed the MOT 
But only on one of the two number plate lights not working. Garage stuck a new bulb in and it still didn't work.
Hopefully a minor fettle at the weekend will see it right.
Not picked the old girl up yet, but they did comment that there are quite a few advisories that they will go through when I call in!!
But only on one of the two number plate lights not working. Garage stuck a new bulb in and it still didn't work.
Hopefully a minor fettle at the weekend will see it right.
Not picked the old girl up yet, but they did comment that there are quite a few advisories that they will go through when I call in!!
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