My latest Furore F1
Discussion
Not bothered by "Haterz", presumably they don't understand the concept of "Fun" which is what the car is all about.
It's basically a hobby business, fortunately I don't ned to worry too much about earning a crust out of it, but we're on chassis 17 now so it keeps me busy!
This one is ZZR1400 powered, 190 BHP 113 ft/lbs (equivalent to around 180 ft/lbs due to the torque multiplier b4 the gearbox), 0-60 is around 3.5 secs (Yes, that wipes any smiles off many pisstakers
) & top speed around 160 I believe, tho' never had any inclinatuion to take it that far & certainly not tested at that sort of speed.
As I said it 's not just about going quick it's all about putting a smile on your , & others, faces
It's basically a hobby business, fortunately I don't ned to worry too much about earning a crust out of it, but we're on chassis 17 now so it keeps me busy!
This one is ZZR1400 powered, 190 BHP 113 ft/lbs (equivalent to around 180 ft/lbs due to the torque multiplier b4 the gearbox), 0-60 is around 3.5 secs (Yes, that wipes any smiles off many pisstakers
) & top speed around 160 I believe, tho' never had any inclinatuion to take it that far & certainly not tested at that sort of speed. As I said it 's not just about going quick it's all about putting a smile on your , & others, faces
Yes, all running gear is MR2 Mk1, it's a single donor vehicle other than the rack & lower column .
All wings do work, the narrow rear wing blade originally came from a Jordan F1 car (probably a really ugly one made from plywood
) but the car hasn't been wind tunnel tested or anything like that. That really isn't what the car is about, turning heads & having fun is the object, to say nothing of thumbing your nose at those who said "You can't ................."
All wings do work, the narrow rear wing blade originally came from a Jordan F1 car (probably a really ugly one made from plywood
) but the car hasn't been wind tunnel tested or anything like that. That really isn't what the car is about, turning heads & having fun is the object, to say nothing of thumbing your nose at those who said "You can't ................."Oh, there are compromises all around the car, some to keep the option of both car & bike engines open, some to actually get drivers that aren't built like myself, Lewis Hamilton or Sebaatian Vettel actually in the car rather than perched on top!, some for reasons of cost & simplicity in manufacture, some so you can actually drive the car on public roads without having a route planning excersize first to avoid speed bumps & some to keep the IVA man happy
, some for reasons of cost & simplicity in manufacture, some so you can actually drive the car on public roads without having a route planning excersize first to avoid speed bumps & some to keep the IVA man happyDu1point8 said:
Is there no proper price list to give a rough guide of the price?
Say you have stock of MR2s, all the kit to create a turnkey product minus X,Y and Z.
Then why not mention these prices?
I see £2400 or so for something, but its hidden in a sea of text thats hard to see.
Maybe a price list that says basic skeleton car is XXXX
Engine option A (with or without engine)
Engine option B (with or without engine)
Suspension options, etc...
(sorry to borrow off another website, but this kind of thing, plus the options above)
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Content.aspx?f=gtrpr...
makes it nice and easy to read and gives you an option to deliver cars at various stages including fully rolling road turn key.
Other than that complaint as I was trying to work out the total cost of a car like you have in your first post, I like it as a track weapon.
There is a pricelist on the website which I won't quote again as first post with it in was removed!Say you have stock of MR2s, all the kit to create a turnkey product minus X,Y and Z.
Then why not mention these prices?
I see £2400 or so for something, but its hidden in a sea of text thats hard to see.
Maybe a price list that says basic skeleton car is XXXX
Engine option A (with or without engine)
Engine option B (with or without engine)
Suspension options, etc...
(sorry to borrow off another website, but this kind of thing, plus the options above)
http://www.ultimasports.co.uk/Content.aspx?f=gtrpr...
makes it nice and easy to read and gives you an option to deliver cars at various stages including fully rolling road turn key.
Other than that complaint as I was trying to work out the total cost of a car like you have in your first post, I like it as a track weapon.
The pricelist isn't brilliant, or indeed comprehensive, however, unlike many other manufacturers I do respond to emails & I do answer the phone! The other difficulty with pricing anything is that there are many different ways the car can be configured & I can't price everything on a page.
The website is due a major overhaul, it's not had much done for about 4 years other than to keep it fairly up to date.
mig25_foxbat2003 said:
Tremendously silly. I love it. I think it would look a lot less wonky if you lost the Red Bull graphics and just left it matte black or similar - at the moment, it sort of tricks your eye into thinking "I'm not sure what's going on here, but I know it's not quite right."
A bit like when you eat Quorn - your brain rejects it because it's nearly, but not quite, meat (or is that just me?)
Are you planning to take it on any track days?
I did a plain dark blue car & a plain white one - everyone said they looked bland & boring! I guess no one thing pleases everyone, I've done Ferrari colours, but feel thats rather "in yer face" & possibly pretentious, also been done to death with everyone covering anything from Toyotas to Nissans & Pontiacs with prancing horses.A bit like when you eat Quorn - your brain rejects it because it's nearly, but not quite, meat (or is that just me?)
Are you planning to take it on any track days?
Edited to add, yes will be doing some trackdays, hopefully soon, but need to quieten it down a bit first
Mr Sparkle said:
How about some closeup pictures of the engine bay / diff / suspension. I saw one of these in Basildon last year, think it was white, sounded nice.
The wooden base for the airbox is not a permanent fixture! This was a template for the base of laser cut airbox we now have, diff has also changed, been somewhat simplified, all the above was work in progress.
Himself said:
Erm, possibly. But that's not the point, Russ asked what people thought. I said what I thought, end of.
@ Himself, no probs with your original comment whatsoever, but it would help me if you could define exactly what is "shocking" - constructive criticism is always welcome 
Thanx for the comments & feedback guys, to answer a few Q's;
Yes, it has quadrant & pushrod front suspension.
Re proportions/airbox etc. some of these are compromises to get both car & bike engines available to be fitted & to be able to get a passenger behind the driver (when not using the airbox!) - it's an interesting packaging excersize, to say nothing of getting real life sized people in the car rather than F1 sized people. Obviously almost anything can be built if you're just building a one off to satisfy a particular set of parameters, barring budget constraints, but trying to build something which is versatile enough to satisfy a whole bunch of different customer requirements & still be capable of being produced in a road legal fashion with great performance at a sensible price (ie not T1 Caparro prices!) is a tad more difficult!
@ Futuramic, not quite understanding you, something like a model A would obviously have had a solid beam axle originally, if fitting IFS the most common ways would obviously be MacPherson strut, or a wishbone type system, the only simple way I can think of that would eliminate both would be some form of swing arm system, such as that used on the old 2 CV, not pretty or great in terms of functionality. Only other way would be a sliding pillar system off a beam axle type setup. Or, are you simply saying you want to get the springs & dampers out of sight? In which case there are a no. of ways you can use a double wishbone system & have springs & dampers inboard & out of sight - need a bit more info on exactly what you want to acheive?
Yes, it has quadrant & pushrod front suspension.
Re proportions/airbox etc. some of these are compromises to get both car & bike engines available to be fitted & to be able to get a passenger behind the driver (when not using the airbox!) - it's an interesting packaging excersize, to say nothing of getting real life sized people in the car rather than F1 sized people. Obviously almost anything can be built if you're just building a one off to satisfy a particular set of parameters, barring budget constraints, but trying to build something which is versatile enough to satisfy a whole bunch of different customer requirements & still be capable of being produced in a road legal fashion with great performance at a sensible price (ie not T1 Caparro prices!) is a tad more difficult!
@ Futuramic, not quite understanding you, something like a model A would obviously have had a solid beam axle originally, if fitting IFS the most common ways would obviously be MacPherson strut, or a wishbone type system, the only simple way I can think of that would eliminate both would be some form of swing arm system, such as that used on the old 2 CV, not pretty or great in terms of functionality. Only other way would be a sliding pillar system off a beam axle type setup. Or, are you simply saying you want to get the springs & dampers out of sight? In which case there are a no. of ways you can use a double wishbone system & have springs & dampers inboard & out of sight - need a bit more info on exactly what you want to acheive?
Edited by Russ Bost on Saturday 15th September 19:05
FELIX_5 said:
Exactly! Don't ask people what they think, if you only want nice comments!
I have no problem with people making negative comments, but I do like to hear why they have a problem with XYZ or whatever. Exceptionally childish comments like the first one in the thread I can only assume are made by people with some form of unusual mental condition. Output Flange said:
This surprised me - as the manufacturer of this, don't you have an obligation (legal or moral) to test that it doesn't all come apart at vmax? That's a genuine question rather than a dig.
Fair comment, can see where you're coming from, however if you buy a car from any manufacturer that is designed & built for road use (which this is) normally you would expect that to be within the parameters of the country it's sold in (Vmax = 70mph). You will not find any manufacturer that will guarantee their cars for any form of motorsport or track use - you'll normally find a disclaimer to that effect in the handbook along the lines of "not guaranteed for rallying, racing, or any form of motorsport blah blah blah". There are simply too many factors controlled by the driver under these situations. For instance I could do 1000's of track miles without a problem then some numpty jumps in & puts it across a kerb at 150MPH, I'm certainly not guaranteeing the front wing to remain in place in such a situation! If they can't manage it with a real F1 car & carbon fibre I don't think I can with fibreglass & steel!
If someone wants to take their car to Germany & belt it down the Autobahn (only legal under certain circumstances) then there's no reason for it to come to bits, (providing of course they've not damaged a tyre or similar at some previous point.............) but track use is a whole different ball game.
I think a lot of people take massive speeds from modern cars without actually thinking "what happens if ...........", I enjoy being a nutter as much as the next bloke (you could probably guess that from the car!
) but I do have a certain sense of self preservation!Output Flange said:
you're selling a car with big wings on it, without knowing what effect that has. It could become completely unstable at 120mph (or it might not), but the fact that you've not tested it would concern me as a customer.
Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
I didn't say I'd not tested it at speed, I said I'd not had it up to 160MPH!Obviously you've found 16 people who don't share my concern. I'm just surprised that as someone selling a car of your own design you don't have an obligation to have tested it to its full potential.
The wings, if set correctly, can only generate downforce, they are a "proper" aerofoil, the car is flat floored & again, providing ride heights are set correctly this will also generate substantial downforce, as will the rear diffuser. I have absolutely no control of how people set these paramaters, I can only make recommendations. However ANY car with a flat floor doing significantly over 100mph is going to become an aeroplane if it gets launched & gets air under the flat floor, have a word with Mark Webber about it, he seems to have more experience than most!
I can say with confidence that the car is completely stable (to the point where you can take your hands off the steering wheel, tho' that's not a recommendation!) at around 135 - 140MPH, but once you get over those sort of speeds I don't think any car is entirely safe & it is very much a case of being responsible for yourself in such situations - as I said b4, I think people get very blase about high speeds in modern cars, once you're significantly the wrong side of the ton it takes only a very minor driver error to turn fun into a monster accident.
Further, I can't stop a customer sticking a more powerful engine in & taking the car to stupid speeds. For the IVA test they ask for a maximum speed - I fill in 119mph, I know the car is perfectly safe at that speed providing you don't do something daft with it.
James Dean said:
Have seen your cars mentioned more than a couple of time here on PH.
But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
Unfortunately it's very much in the eye of the beholder - we're in the process of producing some rather more curvy sidepods - I put a thread on Locostbuilders a while back with some pics & asking for opinions, I got quite a few ideas regarding how the sidepods could be improved, but the last comment on there IIRC was to the effect that when it's driving down the road to the casual observer it's going to look like an F1 car either way, why change what you've got!!!! So you can't please everybody.But one thing I haven't figured out yet, though I'm not knocking your craftmanship, as I'm pretty sure the mechanical parts works as they should.
But, why you haven't there been put more 'effort' into the bodywork, making it more rounded and less boxy?
I'm pretty sure the looks could be improved quite a lot and make it seem more like the real thing. That coupled with a staggered wheel set up on some small wheels with big meaty tyres on it would certainly improve the looks side of it!
Much of it is down to budget, I'd happily produce different bodywork for a customer, but he has to be prepared to foot the bill, if we went on to take moulds from that bodywork obviously the customer would see some reimbursement. Again re the wheels, how deep are your pockets? The car is already on the widest wheels you can get (7.5" front & 9" rear) without resorting to either 18" wheels, which I feel are simply too big, or a 3 piece rim, which is very expensive. Even if you go to a 3 piece rim you can't readily buy wider tyres in either 16 or 17" than I'm already fitting (225 front & 245 or 255 rear), if you go down to a 15" split rim or steel banded wheels you can get some monster (335 IIRC) wide tyres from the States, but they are aimed at the dune buggy market so I wouldn't anticipate them actually having any grip!
So, as you can see perhaps not as simple as you might think, if I had the budget of a T1 Caparro I think I could build something that would be faster, better looking & more practical whilst still retaining the WoW! factor. However I don't think they've sold many .....................
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