Fix It Again Tomorrow - Street Sleeper
Discussion
This is a thread about engines, in particular the Lampredi Twin cam, it's what I know best. It's not intended to be an advert, just some pics and chat about what I get up to at work and for pleasure.
Fiat Coupe 16vt: Project Sausage
Where I work we fix integrales, I think what we do best and certainly enjoy the most is build engines. The problem is an integrale is hardly Street sleeper material, they are expensive, difficult to work on and modify due to space constraints and 4wd.
In comparison Fiat Coupe 16vts are cheap, have the same engine, loads of room in the engine bay (due to the long nose) for goodies and are more comfortable on long journeys.
We needed one for trainees to practice with, test out some ideas on and well, just a bit of fun.
One was sourced locally via the Devil that is Ebay, a bit overpriced at £400 with a seized engine, but as it was close by a saving on time and fuel.
Now check out the patina on that:
Perfect! Well I'm not going to be bothered where I leave it am I?
The engine was completely seized solid, we found the supply pipe to the oil cooler had been joined back together with a piece of copper pipe
and part of the undertray broken in that area too, so I suspect that something hitting both of them was possibly what caused the demise of the engine, particularly when we 'unlocked' the crank and found the remains of the big end shell bearings:
The rest of the engine was ok so it was stripped down and cleaned before work commenced.
The head was ported using a few new tricks I wanted to try out, everything is developed and tested on our flowbench.
A rebore followed, along with:
-Forged pistons and rods
-Standard CR
-Re-ground crank
-Lightened Steel flywheel
-Uprated clutch
-Full btm end balance +
Balancer shafts removed.
-25mm cambelt kit - replaces the crappy 19mm belt
-Gasflowed head, high lift cams
-GT3076R turbo
-Ceramic coated tubular manifold
-3" exhaust with race cat
-Manual boost controller.
That should help propel it on a bit quicker.
Fiat Coupe 16vt: Project Sausage
Where I work we fix integrales, I think what we do best and certainly enjoy the most is build engines. The problem is an integrale is hardly Street sleeper material, they are expensive, difficult to work on and modify due to space constraints and 4wd.
In comparison Fiat Coupe 16vts are cheap, have the same engine, loads of room in the engine bay (due to the long nose) for goodies and are more comfortable on long journeys.
We needed one for trainees to practice with, test out some ideas on and well, just a bit of fun.
One was sourced locally via the Devil that is Ebay, a bit overpriced at £400 with a seized engine, but as it was close by a saving on time and fuel.
Now check out the patina on that:
Perfect! Well I'm not going to be bothered where I leave it am I?
The engine was completely seized solid, we found the supply pipe to the oil cooler had been joined back together with a piece of copper pipe
and part of the undertray broken in that area too, so I suspect that something hitting both of them was possibly what caused the demise of the engine, particularly when we 'unlocked' the crank and found the remains of the big end shell bearings:
The rest of the engine was ok so it was stripped down and cleaned before work commenced.
The head was ported using a few new tricks I wanted to try out, everything is developed and tested on our flowbench.
A rebore followed, along with:
-Forged pistons and rods
-Standard CR
-Re-ground crank
-Lightened Steel flywheel
-Uprated clutch
-Full btm end balance +
Balancer shafts removed.
-25mm cambelt kit - replaces the crappy 19mm belt
-Gasflowed head, high lift cams
-GT3076R turbo
-Ceramic coated tubular manifold
-3" exhaust with race cat
-Manual boost controller.
That should help propel it on a bit quicker.
Edited by Evoluzione on Thursday 2nd April 23:43
Thanks for the encouragement, my OH says I don't need any, I disagree. 
More of the usual problems were found stripping the head:
16v lobe wear is very common especially on later models, no-one really knows why, I'm guessing just poor manufacturing processes.
Well a good excuse to put some new high lift cams in then.
All rotating parts were balanced, if you look closely you can just see a shiny patch on the crank counterweight where a small amount of material was linished off:
Note also the light Cromo steel flywheel. All the plugs were removed from the crank and it was cleaned out, you'd be surprised at what comes out of an old crankshaft:
What happens is bits of engine which (usually naturally) wear away get trapped in there, as it is spinning it acts like a centrifuge and they get pushed into a dead end oilway, compacted and usually sit there (quite happily) for the life of the engine. If the crank has been cleaned or machined it can come loose or other bits of material from any machining processes get in there too, so always good practice to have a good clean out.
More of the usual problems were found stripping the head:
16v lobe wear is very common especially on later models, no-one really knows why, I'm guessing just poor manufacturing processes.
Well a good excuse to put some new high lift cams in then.
All rotating parts were balanced, if you look closely you can just see a shiny patch on the crank counterweight where a small amount of material was linished off:
Note also the light Cromo steel flywheel. All the plugs were removed from the crank and it was cleaned out, you'd be surprised at what comes out of an old crankshaft:
What happens is bits of engine which (usually naturally) wear away get trapped in there, as it is spinning it acts like a centrifuge and they get pushed into a dead end oilway, compacted and usually sit there (quite happily) for the life of the engine. If the crank has been cleaned or machined it can come loose or other bits of material from any machining processes get in there too, so always good practice to have a good clean out.
So the engine was pretty much on its way, I wondered about cooling it; More power = more heat. The standard Coupe rad isn't bad really, pretty big, lots of cooling area, problem was this one wasn't in great shape, most of the fins were missing as were any others we had.
Hmmm, what to do? Well if I was going to buy a new one I might aswell spunk a bit more money and get a really good one and then well, what about the oil cooler? We're going to need one of those too....
The answer came in the form of a combined water and oil cooling rad from the front of some Ford/GM American pick-up 4x4 monstrosity thing, as they already had the size, core and end-tanks 'on-the-shelf' it wasn't much bother for them to just weld on the fittings where I wanted them to suit the Coupes plumbing. It looks something like this:
The width was just fine, a bit too tall though which I knew when I ordered, so it was out with the angry-grinder and welder for a bit of on-the-spot fabrication.
As I mentioned earlier, the Coupe has loads of room at the front for goodies, I scored a biggish intercooler on Ebay
for not bad money. 450 long x 300 x 75 thick. Many people go too long - especially on Coupes and end up having to use more pipes and bends to connect things up again - every bend is a flow loss. If we weren't on a tight budget I would have had a downflow cooler made, much more efficient.
We did a bit of hacking and plumbing to get it to fit. As this is a sleeper I sprayed it black and used black hoses, you have to look very carefully to even get an idea it's there:
I think you can just about see the two hanging brackets and maybe a bit of pipe through a vent hole.
Hmmm, what to do? Well if I was going to buy a new one I might aswell spunk a bit more money and get a really good one and then well, what about the oil cooler? We're going to need one of those too....
The answer came in the form of a combined water and oil cooling rad from the front of some Ford/GM American pick-up 4x4 monstrosity thing, as they already had the size, core and end-tanks 'on-the-shelf' it wasn't much bother for them to just weld on the fittings where I wanted them to suit the Coupes plumbing. It looks something like this:
The width was just fine, a bit too tall though which I knew when I ordered, so it was out with the angry-grinder and welder for a bit of on-the-spot fabrication.
As I mentioned earlier, the Coupe has loads of room at the front for goodies, I scored a biggish intercooler on Ebay
for not bad money. 450 long x 300 x 75 thick. Many people go too long - especially on Coupes and end up having to use more pipes and bends to connect things up again - every bend is a flow loss. If we weren't on a tight budget I would have had a downflow cooler made, much more efficient.
We did a bit of hacking and plumbing to get it to fit. As this is a sleeper I sprayed it black and used black hoses, you have to look very carefully to even get an idea it's there:
I think you can just about see the two hanging brackets and maybe a bit of pipe through a vent hole.
Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 11th June 15:05
Honestherbert and others said:
GT3076 on one of these will be a laugh surely gonna be a bit laggy though?? I'm presuming you will be going for thew smaller rear housing?
Oh that looks like it is going to be a load of fun, road snotter with HUGE power. what do you expect the HP to be ?
I'd guess around 500 at the fly. But reckon it would need nearly 2 bar to get there!!
Well you can't have everything on a budget, whilst it's a very strong, but largely misunderstood engine it's old school with no adjustable cam timing like VANOS or VTEC or other modern adjustable engine speed related goodies etc to help us out. surely gonna be a bit laggy though?? I'm presuming you will be going for thew smaller rear housing?Oh that looks like it is going to be a load of fun, road snotter with HUGE power. what do you expect the HP to be ?
I'd guess around 500 at the fly. But reckon it would need nearly 2 bar to get there!!
It would be good to see 500, but it will take much less than 2 bar to get there because we made everything so free-flowing, the MAP sensor only reads to 1.5 so we'll stop off there first to see how it goes.
Edited 'Adjustable cam timing' for clarity - shouldn't post up when it's late and tired!
Edited by Evoluzione on Saturday 10th August 12:08
After all that hacking about it was time for a break:
Before putting the engine together.
A few pics of the engine build:
Checking piston/valve clearance:
Bearing clearance:
Original cast pistons are known for breaking at higher (50%) power outputs:
So forged ones were fitted.
Timing up the cams:
It was pretty soon looking like this:
Before putting the engine together.
A few pics of the engine build:
Checking piston/valve clearance:
Bearing clearance:
Original cast pistons are known for breaking at higher (50%) power outputs:
So forged ones were fitted.
Timing up the cams:
It was pretty soon looking like this:
Piccy of the GT3076R, I went in with the grinder and smoothed out any imperfections, especially around the external wastegate as i was worried it wouldn't bleed off enough gas to control itself.
I initially re-used an old tubular ex manifold, you might see it in some pics (it's covered in white ceramic), but it didn't last long. It had already had a very hard life and was brittle, it soon blew in various places.
One of the problems with the integrale/Coupe manifold is that the turbo is mounted too near cylinder No.4, this means you can't get good airflow out of the exhaust port because the turbo flange is there. Below you can see the bad angle on one of the pipes:
People have tried all kinds of designs over the years, it seemed simple to me what we had to do: Move the turbo over to the right. We have a modelling kit, it's a bit like Lego for exhaust manifolds!
The new manifold came back looking like this:
It looks ok, well a big improvement on the original, but I wasn't happy with it. It didn't have any of the graceful free flowing bends I asked for. I couldn't put it on a customers car so a deal was struck and we got a cheap(ish) manifold for the Coupe.
I had 4 sensors fitted to measure exhaust gas temp (this is our development test car also remember) and got it ceramic coated to keep the heat inside it.
I initially re-used an old tubular ex manifold, you might see it in some pics (it's covered in white ceramic), but it didn't last long. It had already had a very hard life and was brittle, it soon blew in various places.
One of the problems with the integrale/Coupe manifold is that the turbo is mounted too near cylinder No.4, this means you can't get good airflow out of the exhaust port because the turbo flange is there. Below you can see the bad angle on one of the pipes:
People have tried all kinds of designs over the years, it seemed simple to me what we had to do: Move the turbo over to the right. We have a modelling kit, it's a bit like Lego for exhaust manifolds!
The new manifold came back looking like this:
It looks ok, well a big improvement on the original, but I wasn't happy with it. It didn't have any of the graceful free flowing bends I asked for. I couldn't put it on a customers car so a deal was struck and we got a cheap(ish) manifold for the Coupe.
I had 4 sensors fitted to measure exhaust gas temp (this is our development test car also remember) and got it ceramic coated to keep the heat inside it.
Next up was the intake, I hacked off the original runners, improved the angle and got my mate to Tig them up, I got a plenum from a Sunny GTIR on Ebay and grafted that on too with a spacer to increase the plenum volume, finished off with a bigger throttle body it looked something like this:
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If you want good power from a turbo car you need a good sized exhaust, I found a half decent 3" system from some dodgy Coupe owner in Liverpool, he had some sizeable Wilwood calipers & brackets too so I bought the lot for a few quid, I modded the exhaust where it needed it and fitted it up, the dustbin hanging out of the rear was lopped off and replaced with a far more subtle piece of slash cut 3" tube.
I got some new Wilwood discs as the kit I bought was running on OE discs, then knocked up some bells:
I had them anodised and put some wheel spacers on, stopping is as important as going!
I noticed there wasn't much in the way of decent suspension for the Coupe and as we'd previously developed the set up for the integrale with BC Racing (and they are only about 10 miles away from us) I asked them if they were interested in doing the same for the Coupe.
They were.
There was a fair bit of work involved, testing it out was a gruelling task:
but someones gotta do it, a freebie set was the reward:
One of the reasons I like the BC stuff is that the ride height setting is completely independent of the spring tension setting - something that has annoyed me about your average system for years.
I got some new Wilwood discs as the kit I bought was running on OE discs, then knocked up some bells:
I had them anodised and put some wheel spacers on, stopping is as important as going!
I noticed there wasn't much in the way of decent suspension for the Coupe and as we'd previously developed the set up for the integrale with BC Racing (and they are only about 10 miles away from us) I asked them if they were interested in doing the same for the Coupe.
They were.
There was a fair bit of work involved, testing it out was a gruelling task:
but someones gotta do it, a freebie set was the reward:
One of the reasons I like the BC stuff is that the ride height setting is completely independent of the spring tension setting - something that has annoyed me about your average system for years.
So how to let plenty of air into that turbo cheaply, safely and without a lot of noise? Well as we had plenty of space and I had a spare air filter box I just plumbed two in with a Y piece, here's how she looked with the ex old manifold, you can just about see the two air boxes to the front right, I drilled a few extra holes in for extra airflow and (importantly) put some bell mouths around them.
The ECU was replaced with a Motec M4 so we could get it re-programmed. M4s are strong reliable, but old tech, but then so is the engine so they go hand in hand pretty well.
Fuelling was taken care of by a 340 litre per hour pump in the tank, I doubled up the fuel line supply so it could deliver more. This was done by taking the flow & return pipes and joining them together at either end - simple, but effective, a bit like me.
Return was then taken care of by a bigger diameter pipe which quite handily (with an adaptor I made up) fitted onto a port on the tank.
The ECU was replaced with a Motec M4 so we could get it re-programmed. M4s are strong reliable, but old tech, but then so is the engine so they go hand in hand pretty well.
Fuelling was taken care of by a 340 litre per hour pump in the tank, I doubled up the fuel line supply so it could deliver more. This was done by taking the flow & return pipes and joining them together at either end - simple, but effective, a bit like me.
Return was then taken care of by a bigger diameter pipe which quite handily (with an adaptor I made up) fitted onto a port on the tank.
When you put too much load through a gearbox any two gears which are acting on one another will want to push themselves apart, more load = further distance until the mesh is partially lost and the tips are doing the job of transmitting the load instead of the whole tooth which is obviously much stronger. It only takes one to let go then the whole lot jerks and every tooth gets ripped off in
There are two basic types of strengthening for this gearbox, an upper plate
Which goes on here:
And a steel lower spectacle plate which fits in this area of the box:
The upper plate stops the housing from deforming and the crown wheel from breaking away, the lower plate stops the two shafts (which you can see the two bearing housings for) from separating. It's made from a figure of 8 in steel and the casing is precision machined so it drops in. When any (and I mean any) gearbox from this family is taken apart those two bearing housings you can see have gone oval.
There are two basic types of strengthening for this gearbox, an upper plate
Which goes on here:
And a steel lower spectacle plate which fits in this area of the box:
The upper plate stops the housing from deforming and the crown wheel from breaking away, the lower plate stops the two shafts (which you can see the two bearing housings for) from separating. It's made from a figure of 8 in steel and the casing is precision machined so it drops in. When any (and I mean any) gearbox from this family is taken apart those two bearing housings you can see have gone oval.
The guys: said:
This is awesome. You have a very cool job.
My friend used to have a coupe the same colour as this stoked to (he said) 290bhp. We called it the red dragon and it was great in a straight line. I can't imagine how front wheel drive will cope with 500bhp!
Mmm i alway liked the coupe. it would be much better if it was a RWD car. it has the look.
Loving your work, keep us updated with every little detail
About 2 weeks after getting my Scooby I pulled up at the lights confident that i would be able to beat the battered blue Fiat Coupe in front and bugger off into the distance.
I could, until he finally got traction in 3rd and left me for dust.
Lesson learned and after that the Scoob was used for corners not drag races.
Wow! It didn't realise that the 16v Coupe was exactly the same engine as the Integrale (incidentally I'm a huge Lancia fan). Who do you work for OP? Working on Deltas must be a constant battle with tin worm, and I guess parts supply for trim/glass and the like... Sounds awesome though!
Was always a fan of the fiat coupe.
Wish i had the skills to rebuild an engine.
I can't say where I work as it would be advertising and probably against PH rules, i'm just writing for the enjoyment of it and hopefully some people will get something out of reading it. You're right, rust removal is a lot of what we do, we much prefer engines though and most of what we create goes out of the country these days.My friend used to have a coupe the same colour as this stoked to (he said) 290bhp. We called it the red dragon and it was great in a straight line. I can't imagine how front wheel drive will cope with 500bhp!
Mmm i alway liked the coupe. it would be much better if it was a RWD car. it has the look.
Loving your work, keep us updated with every little detail
About 2 weeks after getting my Scooby I pulled up at the lights confident that i would be able to beat the battered blue Fiat Coupe in front and bugger off into the distance.
I could, until he finally got traction in 3rd and left me for dust.
Lesson learned and after that the Scoob was used for corners not drag races.
Wow! It didn't realise that the 16v Coupe was exactly the same engine as the Integrale (incidentally I'm a huge Lancia fan). Who do you work for OP? Working on Deltas must be a constant battle with tin worm, and I guess parts supply for trim/glass and the like... Sounds awesome though!
Was always a fan of the fiat coupe.
Wish i had the skills to rebuild an engine.
I have two 2.2 ltr conversions on the go at the moment, the extra capacity coming mainly from an eight weight stroker crank:
One going to Central America and one to Finland, it takes years to gain the knowledge of just one engine like this and it's what most people overlook when they start their own builds - sadly a lot end in failure.
It's quite annoying when you offer to build someones engine who is buying parts from you and they refuse because they or some local garage/Uncle Bob is doing it and then you find out later it was a partial or total failure, much of what you sold is scrap and the engine never made its full potential.
A sale is not just a sale, you want your parts to go on and be successful or enjoyed for a long time.
We bent some rules with this one (our own build), but that's because we know which ones can be and still get away with it.
It's a bit like James Mays Manlab here, you might spend an alcohol fuelled Friday eve discovering, obsessing and researching something, then go in on Saturday to have a go at making it. Not everything goes to plan of course and you have better ideas later. That's where a lot of Project Sausages bits came from - they were unwanted bits and pieces swept up off the floor at the end of the day.
We've got up to all kinds of odd things from making our home-made aluminium melting pot and pouring some moulds to make body panels from to creating high flowing, but stock looking Saxo 8v heads which fooled the inspectors and blew away the competition, to blowing paint and then smoke (initially from an apprentice with three fags in his mouth, but then onto smoke bombs) through cylinder head ports on the flowbench in order to gain more of a visual insight to what is going on in a running engine:
That's the kind of trick you film last thing at night before you go home as it fills half the workshop up with smoke!
The Coupe shares the same floorpan as many other models in the Fiat/Lancia/Alfa range, these included 4wd versions so it is possible to make a 4 x 4 Coupe - the problem is the cars were never popular over here so a trip to Europe would usually be in order to pick up a suitable donor.
Ooops I've rambled on a bit, back to the story soon....
Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 16th June 16:10
Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 16th June 16:13
I had the car mapped live on the road, it seemed pretty lively so I drove it like that for a bit. The clock runs out of numbers at 160mph, but the needle goes well beyond that. The engine was just getting into it's stride at that point and pulling hard, I wasn't! I was all for pulling over and cleaning out my strides.
As I mentioned earlier, I picked up the Wilwood calipers cheap, they already had some hard compound pads in them so I used them as they were with the new Wilwood discs I bought.
In a few miles they looked like this;
I phoned up the sole UK supplier Rallydesign and explained the problem, they just fobbed me off - 'They're hard pads mate, they will wear the discs down'
"What 4mm in less than 100 road miles???"
'Yeah mate, nothing wrong with those'
They weren't budging so I had an idea. It was Autosport International show in a few weeks, I had tickets. Rallydesign had a big stand there.
I lugged a disc and two pads with me round the show, went up to their stand and dropped them on the counter in front of the main man and made my case clear.
He scuttled off for a conversation with (it turned out to be) 'Mr Wilwood' who was over from America, Mr Wilwood wasn't too keen on speaking to a 6'2" cross looking Yorkshireman with a brake disc, he just skulked in the background and sent the other guy back with the message to ring him on Monday and they would be sending me a new set of pads and discs.
This set faired a bit better, but I think their discs are a bit soft so will have the next ones Cryogenically treated as I've found in the past that it does work.
We then took it to Donington for a trackday, had a few teething issues but nothing too bad, well nothing we couldn't fix anyhow.
Including breaking the sound limit by several DBs. This was cured by bending a bit of an old paint tin over the exhaust and pointing it down to the track:
It melted the bumper a bit, but never mind, it adds to the character.
As I mentioned earlier, I picked up the Wilwood calipers cheap, they already had some hard compound pads in them so I used them as they were with the new Wilwood discs I bought.
In a few miles they looked like this;
I phoned up the sole UK supplier Rallydesign and explained the problem, they just fobbed me off - 'They're hard pads mate, they will wear the discs down'
"What 4mm in less than 100 road miles???"
'Yeah mate, nothing wrong with those'
They weren't budging so I had an idea. It was Autosport International show in a few weeks, I had tickets. Rallydesign had a big stand there.
I lugged a disc and two pads with me round the show, went up to their stand and dropped them on the counter in front of the main man and made my case clear.
He scuttled off for a conversation with (it turned out to be) 'Mr Wilwood' who was over from America, Mr Wilwood wasn't too keen on speaking to a 6'2" cross looking Yorkshireman with a brake disc, he just skulked in the background and sent the other guy back with the message to ring him on Monday and they would be sending me a new set of pads and discs.
This set faired a bit better, but I think their discs are a bit soft so will have the next ones Cryogenically treated as I've found in the past that it does work.
We then took it to Donington for a trackday, had a few teething issues but nothing too bad, well nothing we couldn't fix anyhow.
Including breaking the sound limit by several DBs. This was cured by bending a bit of an old paint tin over the exhaust and pointing it down to the track:
It melted the bumper a bit, but never mind, it adds to the character.
SVX said:
I get that you can't say where you work - but would you however be Reading based?
Hypothetical question:
Do you think it would be possible to assemble the following:
Delta HF 4WD running gear, mated to an Thema 8.32 power plant, in an Alfa GTV body?
No, I can spell and don't have a sycophantic following. Hypothetical question:
Do you think it would be possible to assemble the following:
Delta HF 4WD running gear, mated to an Thema 8.32 power plant, in an Alfa GTV body?
I don't think it would go together due to the Ferrari based engine not being compatible with the 4wd transmission and that tranny won't fit the GTV either.
On the Lampredi TC engine the 4wd system is built around it and anchors to the block in various places. The Delta 4wd system isn't a direct bolt on fit to any other car or engine, but because they used that engine in the Dedra and Alfa 155 4x4s their transmissions are compatible with others like the Coupe etc which all have the same floorpan.
Problem is of course, finding a Q4 or Dedra integrale in this country as a donor. I'm currently doing a head for a chap who is racing a 156, he says the engine and box from a Coupe was a bolt on fit. The Alfa straight four is ok as standard, but not very reliable when modified or turbo'd, the Lampredi TC on the other hand is a gem and quite strong so the FWD racers in the 155 and 156 are using them to good effect.
Some guys are putting them in Puntos:
Edited by Evoluzione on Monday 24th June 20:58
Richair said:
Some impressive work here! Wish I had those skills and a well kitted out workshop...
I know these engines reasonably well as I changed the worn-bored motor in my old HF 16v with an engine from a coupe; I managed to pick up a low-mileage FSH motor for £400! A buggered Integrale engine couldn't be bought for that... It was easy to swap everything over and it was in over a weekend (on the drive with a crane and without the use of a car lift I might add )
I'll be keeping an eye on this one!
I wondered where you'd got to Rich. I know these engines reasonably well as I changed the worn-bored motor in my old HF 16v with an engine from a coupe; I managed to pick up a low-mileage FSH motor for £400! A buggered Integrale engine couldn't be bought for that... It was easy to swap everything over and it was in over a weekend (on the drive with a crane and without the use of a car lift I might add
)I'll be keeping an eye on this one!
Edited by Evoluzione on Sunday 23 June 21:56
I think I've covered everything in the build, today I got round to putting The Sausage on the Dyno at RS in Leeds, it's a very honest Rolling Road and often gives figures way below anyone elses, Dyno Dynamics are known as 'Heart breakers' in Coupe circles, I don't think it would have been cricket to visit somewhere to get an inflated figure.
The results at 1.55 bar boost on pump fuel weren't too bad:
Which you wouldn't expect from this:
This means it's the most powerful 2ltr 16vt in the UK by a comfortable margin (I think the closest is 437), a bit odd finding out now after driving it around for so long, but reassuring we're doing it right first time out of the box.
The figures are a bit 'to the right' so there must be some kind of delay on the rollers - probably on spool up. Things happen a lot sooner than that on the road - it's breaking traction at 3500 rpm for instance.
The day wasn't without it's problems, the dyno broke in the morning (software problem) which set the whole day back, then the cam phase sensor wire got bad electrical interference from the ignition leads and coils which sent it crazy at higher rpms, this meant we had to prematurely call it a day before the engine realised its full potential.
Hopefully we'll get to go back with some shielded cable as the fuelling needs tidying up a bit and we can lift the boost a bit to have a crack at 500.
Thanks for your comments, hope you enjoyed reading it, i'm now on the look out for a gear related boost controller....
The results at 1.55 bar boost on pump fuel weren't too bad:
Which you wouldn't expect from this:
This means it's the most powerful 2ltr 16vt in the UK by a comfortable margin (I think the closest is 437), a bit odd finding out now after driving it around for so long, but reassuring we're doing it right first time out of the box.
The figures are a bit 'to the right' so there must be some kind of delay on the rollers - probably on spool up. Things happen a lot sooner than that on the road - it's breaking traction at 3500 rpm for instance.
The day wasn't without it's problems, the dyno broke in the morning (software problem) which set the whole day back, then the cam phase sensor wire got bad electrical interference from the ignition leads and coils which sent it crazy at higher rpms, this meant we had to prematurely call it a day before the engine realised its full potential.
Hopefully we'll get to go back with some shielded cable as the fuelling needs tidying up a bit and we can lift the boost a bit to have a crack at 500.
Thanks for your comments, hope you enjoyed reading it, i'm now on the look out for a gear related boost controller....
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 26th June 09:57
Edited by Evoluzione on Wednesday 26th June 10:05
Thanks, no plans really. A few ideas I suppose, but I can't see anyone paying even a fraction of the costs involved to create it, even though it would make an integrale go pretty quickly and it's only done about 6000 miles, mainly on the road.
I'll probably carry on running it, either as a weekend toy or as a track car and just have some fun with it, we can continue to use it as a test bed for various things.
Another idea is to pull the engine and put it into an integrale ourselves and then develop another engine for the Coupe, I've got loads of ideas, just not the time nor funds to realise them.
I'd like to make a 'square' Lampredi lump, i.e. equal bore and stroke which would mean dropping to around 1.8 litres. You would lose torque, but gain RPM and BHP so it would need to go into something light, great in an Elise or similar!
For the Coupe we could build a really high torque, but not massive bhp motor just for daily drive and cruising, supercharger and turbo would also be great, the possibilities are endless, sadly the wallet isn't.
I'll probably carry on running it, either as a weekend toy or as a track car and just have some fun with it, we can continue to use it as a test bed for various things.
Another idea is to pull the engine and put it into an integrale ourselves and then develop another engine for the Coupe, I've got loads of ideas, just not the time nor funds to realise them.
I'd like to make a 'square' Lampredi lump, i.e. equal bore and stroke which would mean dropping to around 1.8 litres. You would lose torque, but gain RPM and BHP so it would need to go into something light, great in an Elise or similar!
For the Coupe we could build a really high torque, but not massive bhp motor just for daily drive and cruising, supercharger and turbo would also be great, the possibilities are endless, sadly the wallet isn't.
Edited by Evoluzione on Tuesday 25th June 10:52
s_zigmond said:
Based on that a completely off topic question, but what are the Delta HPE's like?And with regards your comment about Dynos, I only ever trust RS's results for the same reasons youv'e stated.
A bit about the HPE here: http://deltaparts1.blogspot.co.uk/
At the end of the article, sorry, you'll have to wade through the lesson on Windmills!
Any more info let me know.
Hoopsuk said:
Good read. Good build. I like the science behind your mods and numbers.
Thanks, we should crack 500 quite easily when I get the time to sort out the interference issue. So far I've just found out that the OE wiring is already shielded and earthed so it isn't that, probably a faulty sensor, plug leads or non-resistor spark plugs.I fathomed out (well ok, I asked my mate) how to get some footage from my phone onto my computer so here is one of the earlier dyno pulls:
If you close your eyes for the first 20 secs it sounds like you're being overtaken by a truck on the motorway.
Hoopsuk said:
Interesting what you did with the intake plumbing. The accepted doctrine on the Coupe forum is for a straight induction pipe with K and N type filter on the end routed straight off the compressor intake into the space infront of the front left wheel arch. Obviously, this doesn't make all that much difference relative to the other mods.
Many folk on the Coupe forum are like mushrooms, they're fed s
t and kept in the dark. You have to take anything written on a forum with a pinch of salt, it's like reading The Sun, when you do it for a job it's quite amusing what people write on forums and think they know your business.
If you want some noise and poor filtration fit a cotton or foam filter, if you want good filtering quality then fit paper. I don't like noise if I can help it.
If you're worried about restriction fit two....
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