Civic Type R - First hot hatch

Civic Type R - First hot hatch

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seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 30th December 2013
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Hello all, thought I would show my latest acquisition which I got a couple of months ago.

I previously owned a MK2.5 MX5 for nearly 3 years before this, which I loved, especially on sunny driving trips to Goodwood and Wales. Having it as an only car when the girlfriend also has a small 2 seater however, despite our best efforts, soon became wearisome when we ended up caught out on occasion by the lack of boot space or rear seats. Daily drives 20 miles to work in the winter slush and ice were not ideal either. Also, having to sort the rust out on a 2004 car and a dodgy diff, coupled with the way I always wanted to modify it instead of saving for a house deposit, meant I had lost a bit of interest and it was time to call it a day. Great cars though, I will definitely have another one day but only as a weekend car:



However as driving and cars are my only real hobby, if I was to get something more practical, it had to be a decent drivers car, with a bit of poke. It also had to be financed in its entirety by the sale of the MX5 approaching winter and preferably Jap, being of the Gran Turismo generation. So there we have it:



A slightly over 100k mile pre-facelift EP3 Type R, serviced every 12k according to the history (some Honda), it's not without it's niggles but I intend for this to be sort of a rolling restoration.

Car is totally standard apart from some non OEM red interior mats, a leather gear gaitor, and mudflaps behind the front wheels (unsure whether to keep them yet) I want the car to remain pretty much standard, at least for the time being, I had coilovers on the MX5 and they had more negatives than positive for me. The car just needs a slight refresh. For example there is a few parking dings, front discs are thin, small patches of paint lacquer peeling, a couple of the suspension bushes are knackered, the air con condenser is pretty much non existent due to debris and/or corrosion and the coolant radiator will be going the same way soon. All of these things and more I hope to address as and when they become critical / affordable. I already have a new condenser and good second hand radiator ready to fit myself when the weather improves.

Firstly, the faded type R badge at the rear was replaced:



The car was due a service, so the air filter and oil was changed for a good 5w-40 fully synth. My car doesn't appear to be one of the ones that gulp oil so far which I am happy about. It's also a very quiet and smooth running engine which I hope demonstrates that it's been treated well in the past. I also had a couple of bumper clips missing, so they were bought online from Ling's Honda as well as new clips for the bonnet insulation as a couple were loose, and a new battery cover plate as the old one was starting to rust.

The poor headlights have been brightened up slightly by replacing the old bulbs for Osram Nightbreakers, and I took the car to Blink Motorsport in Winsford to check and adjust its standard wheel alignment:



Next few things on my mental to do list include:

- A proper deep clean and polish - It seems the Nighthawk Black colour is a pain to keep clean and shows up a cacophony of scratches and imperfections.

- Hondata airbox mod - if anyone has experience of this, I'd like to hear from you!

- Fit air con condensor and coolant radiator.

- New front brakes will be needed soon.

- Ditchfinding rear tyres will have to go at some point.

- Honda's standard radio/cd player is appalling. Speakers are also turd and can be improved even with cheap Halfords range I am sure.

Thanks for looking chaps, I would be interested in your comments, good and bad.










Edited by seany87 on Monday 30th December 12:50

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 30th December 2013
quotequote all
SteellFJ said:
Enjoy it, great fun for so little torque!
I prefer screaming NA motors to the turbo torque machines most fast cars seem to be today, so this is right up my street. Even when fully loaded with passengers and luggage the car pulls cleanly in 6th at 35mph, it's probably got the most torque of any car I have owned so far!

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 30th December 2013
quotequote all
Thanks for the kind words guys.

Gdgd - can you recommend a decent mid to top range tyre for the EP3's? I tend not to go for the highest price ones because 1- I believe you then stray into the 'paying for the name' side of things and 2- I don't push the cars to the limits.

BMWNICK - Thank you, although the pictures were taken by my hamfisted self on an iphone. Not too fond of double din stuff especially touchscreen, plus I'd like to keep the storage under the radio. In truth, the radio will probably stay with the car whilst I own it, I don't really care too much for music compared to others.

Horney - Hello mate, been reading up about your Civic, looks mint! Hope your MX5 is still keeping you busy as well. I must say I miss having an LSD and rear wheel drive, but as an overall package the Civic is still good. I much prefer the rear lights on the pre-facelift, the facelift probably has a slightly nicer front end. I am led to believe there is a load of other improvements on the facelift cars such as lightened flywheel, improved steering etc. I have had plenty of grey cars in the past so tried to go for black this time.. although I would love a white DC5 one day..




seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 30th December 2013
quotequote all
skene said:
I have on '06 premier edition one and I absolutely love it!

Don't bother with the hondata air box mod, it doesn't make any noticeable difference or more noise. Even performance element filters aren't worth the coin!

Has it got any annoying rattles? tongue out
No annoying rattles which surprised me, the only slightly annoying things are an occasionally creaky accelerator pedal and some wind noise from what sounds to be the passenger door seal. I can live for them, for now.

The reason I asked about the Hondata mod is because I like the sound of induction kits on the K20 engines. However with the cheaper kits such as K&N's I am worried about heatsoak, and obviously the best kits like the Gruppe M cost a bomb as well as require slight modifications to the bay to fit. I am basically looking for a nicer noise for buttons, whilst ideally retaining the original airbox for airflow properties. If the mod really is not worth the cost of buying a cheap dremmell then I will give it a miss.


Mark - lovely DC5!!

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Tuesday 31st December 2013
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P1H said:
The torque 'issue' is simply not a problem and just adds to the enjoyment of the car. BUT in reality I'm afraid is doesn't pull cleanly in 6th at 35mph with one passenger, let alone 4. But, this isn't an issue as it takes a second to change down to third and really enjoy the car.
Well, I can only speak for my car, but it did it. I also took my brother and his girlfriend to Manchester airport early this morning, so thats 3 people, 30kg luggage, and a full tank of fuel and it pulled in 6th from 30mph.. obviously it goes without saying was tectonic acceleration at first, but still - I agree with other posters when they say the lack of torque on vtec engines is exaggerated a little bit.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Wednesday 1st January 2014
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CHIEF said:
What is the steering like on the pre-facelift and how does it compare to your MX5?
I miss the steering feel of the MX5, you can feel everything that the front wheels are doing almost down to the atomic level. Theres less body roll on the Civic when comparing standard cars, and more grip. I wouldn't go as far to say the electric steering is strange on the Civic, its fine once you get used to it, I just see it as a characteristic of the car. Would benefit massively from an LSD though.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Sunday 19th January 2014
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Sometimes the small things in life matter too:

From:

To:


Lots of new under-bonnet insulation clips to replace the old knackered ones:


New battery cover plate to replace the rusty, ugly original:


Had a sidelight out, Brother found some unused LED ones, so I took them for now (original on left):


Also got rid of the questionable, tatty non OEM red mats for a new OEM set:


Apologies for the red blur on the pictures, dodgy fitting iphone case!



I know this update hardly sets the world alight, but I'd like the car to be as mint ad possible.


seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Sunday 19th January 2014
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Thanks! Rusty bolts let it down in the engine bay so will be repainting or replacing those soon. Still happy with the standard car for the moment, would like to toy with a noisier induction if I ever get the funds.

Very happy with the engine on the car so far too, 3000 hard miles with me and its probably used about 0.3-0.5 litres.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 10th February 2014
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Did a couple more bits recently:

Swapped the leather gaitor for an OEM one:




Fitted a super cheap ebay fake mugen oil cap, but in all likelyhood will swap it back at some point:


And in tribute to the fantastic K20 engine, I bought a K20 air freshener (smell lasted all of 2 days though):



Just a teaser update for now, hoping to start a bit of maintenance when the weather improves.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Tuesday 11th February 2014
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No way guys! To me, the leather gaitor didn't suit the car, wheras the OEM just 'fits'.

To be honest I can see why it polarises opinion - it does look like a CV boot.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 2nd June 2014
quotequote all
Update time!

I thought with the better, drier weather I would have a look at the state of the air con condenser and the coolant radiator:



Yep, that is truly goosed!



I decided against changing both radiators on the drive and have it booked in at TDI north this month, my reasoning being they can do it much faster than I, and can also have a nose around the car for any issues I may have missed or just be plain ignorant about.

I changed out the standard pattern parts filter for a Do-Luck foam one, no doubt it improved airflow, but I didn't notice any appreciable difference.



I also wasted a bit of change on a JDM coin holder. Handy when you have change from drive-thru's and you don't want it falling out your pocket as you are in the seat or rattling around door pockets as you drive.



In the ongoing quest for originality I replaced the under bonnet warning stickers. The white one could do with being a bit more to the left going off other EP3 pictures, but I think removing the sticker will wreck it.



Gave it a quick wash (I am no detailer) and gave it another oil change with a magnetic sump plug, new front brake discs and pads, and replaced a rusty and blowing mid-pipe. I did briefly consider going for an unsilenced mid-pipe to release a couple of extra ponies as it is quite restrictive, but forum consensus seems mixed as to whether or not the resulting raspiness sounds good. I couldn't decide so just went pattern parts for the time being. Oil change was done after 8000 miles since the previous one, I see oil as cheap insurance especially on a highly strung engine like the K20. It only used just over a litre of oil in those 8000 miles which considering it gets v-tec'd almost every day is good.



However for increased noise I did go for:



A K&N Typhoon in crinkle red no less. Sounds like a standard car in low revs commuter mode, however raise the revs and it turns into a lovely burble as it approaches v-tec then when v-tec is reached it becomes a manic howl all the way to the limiter. Happy with it as a compromise between the ridiculously priced but amazing sounding Tegiwa and Gruppe M intakes and the standard airbox (which I have kept should I wish to swap back)

Instagram-we alert:



So that's it for now. I am going to get TDI north to take a look at the rear bushes as they sound perished and also as mentioned swap the radiators and throw in fresh coolant. I think my coolant fan doesnt work - I have never heard it or seen it come on so will get TDI to take a look at that also. I know it's not the fuse or relay as I checked those. The car never overheats on the gauge or looses or boils coolant but still I want it investigating.

Then it's just a case of getting the air con regassed for some lovely air con action this summer. Other than that the car is doing well in it's daily duties, I just need to tidy her up providing I can ever find the time. It definitely needs a good machine polish and some stone chips and a couple of small dents taking care of. Oh and the ditchfinders definitely have to go at some point. Me and my brother-in-law are off to Goodwood later in the month for the Festival of Speed and we will be taking the EP3 for it's mix of practicality, speed and reliability!

Comments good or bad welcome.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 2nd June 2014
quotequote all
I heard it's how it's been run-in that determines in the main it's oil consumption. For someone who has only ever bought second hand and will likely never buy new for the forseeable at least, it's out of my control and it's a worry initially after a car has been bought. I bought it on the basis of the gearbox and engine seemed strong, tired bodywork is easy to tidy up in comparison. My car has done nearly 110k now so I'd class that as just run in for a petrol Honda smile

I have seen in the forums that some EP3's are gulping 1 litre of oil per 900-1000 miles. I'd find that a major annoyance, it's like me driving to London and back and having to top up half a litre. I'd be looking for a rebuild or a new car then.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 2nd June 2014
quotequote all
Anything rotary is an exception smile

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Monday 2nd June 2014
quotequote all
TobyLaRohne said:
Great looking car, can you pass a message on to TDiNorth for me?
I was trying to get hold of them ALL Friday on the phone and not once did anyone answer, I wanted to buy a grands worth of parts from them and in the end went to CPL racing, so basically whichever lazy git was sat at the end of the phone that day not only cost their company a grand but lost all hope of getting any business from me in future! Which given I'm running a race car represents a st-ton of money on a pretty regular basis!

...back to your car, that K&N is probably in pretty much the worst place you could put it, its almost right above the exhaust manifold which is going to really heat the air around the intake, is there at least some kind of shielding or air feed that you can run to it?

Sorry to be a bit of a downer, I really do like what you've done with the car, (other than the K&N).


Edited by TobyLaRohne on Monday 2nd June 13:47
Thanks for the kind words. Tdi do always seem to be very busy, if you want to book in a car for a weekend then you'll have to wait 6 weeks or so, I work shifts so luckily I'm going mid week and don't have to wait as long. I emailed them and got a reply later that day.

Totally get what you are saying about the K&N, and it was something I weighed up for a while in my head.

Again, as I work shift's my commute times avoid the typical rush hours therefore I am hardly ever stuck in traffic slowly baking the engine bay. I have retained the standard airbox's cold air feed which directs air straight toward the filter so that may alleviate heatsoak on the move somewhat. I do need to research if there is a heatshield I can buy or fashion for it. Saving for a house deposit means I can't justify several hundred on proper cold air kits like the Gruppe M or Tegiwa, (a K&N does fall within the 'acceptable' budget especially after a couple of wins at the bookies) so in terms of value for money it's a mod that can be easily reversed and sold on, and I can live with the chances of increased intake temps for now for the noise it makes.


seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th June 2014
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Patch888 said:
Following with interest, good read.

Two weeks ago I purchased a 2001 CTR in black. I'm also attempting to get it back to perfect original standard.

Service and tyres next.
Thanks mate. How are you liking your car?

You going to put a thread up for yours?

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th June 2014
quotequote all
You should still hear a change in the engine note on the transition to vtec even if it's been mapped to kick in earlier and smoothed out.

Is the oil level full? Vtec is disabled on low oil and other certain situations like cold coolant etc. Might be worth checking those out.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Thursday 5th June 2014
quotequote all
If the car is totally standard, it should kick in at about 6k rpm, there should be a noticable 'jolt' and a slight change in engine note as the vtec cams come in. The jolt is a slight dip in torque pre-programmed by the factory to make the change over more noticable and evokes similarities to the earlier B-series engines as used in the earlier type Rs

If its been mapped in the past and still has non standard map on theres no telling exactly where the changeover has been placed, the clue will mainly be the change in engine pitch. Vtec isnt like lighting afterburners but you should still notice a difference.

No vtec = something is not right

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Friday 6th June 2014
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Patch888 said:
I'll give it a better drive tommorow, go for a good blast, cheers mate.

Conscious about hijacking your thread wink
Don't worry about hijacking, I'd be interested to hear if you managed to find Vtec yet?

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Friday 25th July 2014
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Quick little update: The car is performing its daily duties rather admirably, admittedly a 10-15 mile route each way on motorway into work isn't going to trouble it much. It's been used for the tip run a couple of times, and me and the OH always take my car when we go places together as its much more comfortable, bigger and faster than her little Daihatsu Copen - I do appreciate the 'jack of all trades' nature of a hot hatch now! Work has been rather busy and tiring, so I find myself just driving the car rather than pro-actively trying to complete every little job I would like to do in my spare time as was the case with my old MX5.

In anticipation of a long trip down to Goodwood on the south coast however, I knew a couple of things would need doing.

Tdi North were to do the work of replacing the orignal radiator and air con condenser, which had practically disintegrated as shown a page back:



Nice tuned FN2 in the car park:


Once they did the work, I got the air con gassed up at a local place:


Waiting for me at home were replacement pollen filters - old ones were disgraceful. I suffer from Hayfever particularly badly (usually have to end up on steroid treatments) so these were a welcome change.



I was also unsure about when the gearbox oil was changed so decided to tackle the job myself. What surprised me was how easy the MTF-3 was to pour once it was warmed up in the sun for 30 minutes as I struggled with the gearbox bolts:



Filling it up was a doddle with the original airbox removed, plenty of space for some hose and a funnel to come over the top.


I don't think the gearbox oil looks too bad here, I certainly didn't feel much of a difference in the shift, but at least I know it's now done.



I also installed a Tegiwa brake stopper - crap picture enclosed:


Bit of a pig to install with my limited tools but I did notice a difference with this, and when I get round to recruiting my brother to help me bleed the brakes, no doubt I will notice the difference again.

Gratuitous crap iphone shot:


That's it for now. The rear bushes are still shot and knocking slightly, still not got round to replacing those. Also the air con gas has only lasted about 3 glorious weeks before leaking out of the condenser, a bright green patch at one corner of the condenser shows where its been damaged (most likely in transit) so I will attempt to clean the area and patch it with metal putty/glue type substance before I shell out for another new condenser.

seany87

Original Poster:

622 posts

170 months

Tuesday 26th August 2014
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I thought I would catch up on a few things that have bugged me since owning the car in October.

The drivers side bolster had a few small wear holes, very common, I have seen worse on less miles but nevertheless, took the time to give them a quick stitch:

Before


After


Not bad for the first time I've ever done stitching methinks!

In my first post I mentioned a couple of bushes around the rear sounded like they needed doing. The clonking over bumps became a bit louder and annoying recently and was really starting to grate, so having saved a modest amount in case various things needed sorting I booked the car into my family friends garage. Turns out all I needed was a rear anti roll bar bush. 20 quid later and I wish I'd done it myself sooner. Was very tempted to splurge on a JDM anti roll bar but having recently resigned from my job and not starting a new one for a couple of weeks, I could do with the money instead. Maybe for Christmas. I would be interested to hear whether or not it's a worthwhile mod for the money.

So in aid of getting a few extra quid to help tide me over, I did a car boot sale and was very impressed at the sheer amount of crap you can stuff into the breadvan - this picture doesn't show the half of it and I could have put much more in if I'd have been bothered to load stuff efficiency. Not shown is a dozen black bags full of the OH's clothes and shoes that she's probably only worn once!



I also stupidly did this:


The carpark in my old workplace is very small and tight, and the EP3 has the turning circle of the QE2, so whilst I was busy negotiating a tricky 45 degree bend with a car on one side and the corner of a brick wall I touched the wall while concentrating on not hitting the car. My first minor scrape in 8 years of driving, I felt a bit silly but the car's front end could do with a respray due anyway due to stone chips and a slight bit of lacquer peel.

The car is likely to be driven much less now as my new job is a 20 minute walk away, or 2 minute drive, compared to a 30 minute drive along the motorway for the old one. I see no point in driving to work when I could walk or cycle in. However I should have a lot more time and money to spend on the car soon, so watch this space.

Edited by seany87 on Tuesday 26th August 13:14