The road-going racing car - Sam McKee's BMW E36 328i
Discussion
I've had an E46 328i for two years now, and I think it's brilliant. So much so, in fact, that I really struggled to think of a replacement without spending a lot more. So when plans to go racing fell through, and I decided getting a car to use on track days and sprints was the next best thing, I toyed with lots of alternatives. I had a very helpful thread on here wondering what could be the do-everything car for £3-5k, but in honesty, no solution was coming out totally right.
So I bought this:
This is a 1997 E36 328i SE saloon, late of Synchromesh, who has a detailed ownership thread on here. That's certainly a nice load of information to have when buying a car, especially as he used it on six track days during his short time with it - so I'm reasonably confident in hoping no major issues will turn up when I start doing the same. Naturally, buying from a like-minded PHer made for a very pleasant and hassle-free transaction. I even let him drive his/my car one last time, collecting the S-Type he replaced it with on my way home!
I'm pretty happy with how nicely it's cleaned up for a 17-year-old, 177,000-mile car! So here's some more photos, with its stablemate..
Belies its mileage rather well in here..
It's very, very interesting to drive the cars back to back. Maybe it's exactly how you'd expect! The E46 makes a magnificent cruiser, it's heavier-weighted and more direct than most modern cars but is ultimately easy to drive, and runs quietly, smoothly, effortlessly. Still capable of making a great noise, tearing down a back road and putting a big grin on your face, but perhaps a little sanitised.
The E36 takes the same kind of Jekyll and Hyde balance, but turns it completely on its head. From the moment you fire it up, with a stiff, direct-feeling key that whumps it into life almost instantaneously, this is a different car. I thought the steering was relatively heavy in the E46 - it ain't. This is more like it. The clutch too. The throttle has a cable, not a series of digital instructions, and even the gearshift is heavier and more connected. Forget the cars only being two model years apart, this was released in 1990 and it never left. I can smell petrol. Excellent.
On the road, it's much firmer (it has M-Tech suspension from factory), but not in a crashy way, just firm. It's on 16"s like the E46, so the difference in the chassis setup is easy to pinpoint. But once I get past the speed bumps on my estate and onto a more open road, that ceases to be an issue at all. The car has... urge. It's an urgent thing. When you plant your foot there's an immediacy to the way it kicks you in the back, the noise turns on and it begs for more revs. Snick the next gear home and as you feed the power back in that distinct kick is there again - not rough, not because you fluffed the change, but because everything right through from the throttle butterfly to the tyres feels directly connected and it does what you ask, when you ask. It's fantastically raw by comparison.
Little things really please me. Like when I rev-match on a downchange, it always seems to be exactly where I wanted it, just so. It feels lighter, pointier, everything has much more of a sharpened edge.. And of course, it's faster, which when you've owned the same car for two years you can't fail to notice. And become a little addicted to.
I'm bound to say it isn't half as good at being "a car". It tries, but it just isn't - it makes all sorts of little random-interval squelches from the HVAC, buzzes from fans, little pops and squeaks and farts.. It shudders badly when you upset it over a bad road, and if you get the right frequency you can even feel the steering column move. Oh, and at the moment the aftermarket head unit assaults you under hard acceleration by lunging out of the dashboard in a mad bid to skin your knuckles, but perhaps we can't blame the car for that one. It also has no cruise, no steering wheel controls, no parking sensors, no sunroof, no auto wipers (or even an adjustable intermittent), no nice soft-touch plastics, nowhere to put your shades, the air con doesn't work.. None of the things I'm used to. I drove it to work for a week and could see how, when you're tired or had a long day or just plain can't be arsed, it would annoy you.
In other words.. It's perfect.
I absolutely made the right decision buying the E46 back in 2012, it's especially obvious when you get back into it after this, it's just a superbly competent car. So there's my road car. This new toy is louder, harsher, tattier, less convenient, less finished... But when you have nowhere to be and everywhere to drive, it's the one. By a mile.
I'm gonna keep 'em both.
First outing: Blyton Park, 9th May. Watch this space!
As always, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Cheers guys!
So I bought this:
This is a 1997 E36 328i SE saloon, late of Synchromesh, who has a detailed ownership thread on here. That's certainly a nice load of information to have when buying a car, especially as he used it on six track days during his short time with it - so I'm reasonably confident in hoping no major issues will turn up when I start doing the same. Naturally, buying from a like-minded PHer made for a very pleasant and hassle-free transaction. I even let him drive his/my car one last time, collecting the S-Type he replaced it with on my way home!
I'm pretty happy with how nicely it's cleaned up for a 17-year-old, 177,000-mile car! So here's some more photos, with its stablemate..
Belies its mileage rather well in here..
It's very, very interesting to drive the cars back to back. Maybe it's exactly how you'd expect! The E46 makes a magnificent cruiser, it's heavier-weighted and more direct than most modern cars but is ultimately easy to drive, and runs quietly, smoothly, effortlessly. Still capable of making a great noise, tearing down a back road and putting a big grin on your face, but perhaps a little sanitised.
The E36 takes the same kind of Jekyll and Hyde balance, but turns it completely on its head. From the moment you fire it up, with a stiff, direct-feeling key that whumps it into life almost instantaneously, this is a different car. I thought the steering was relatively heavy in the E46 - it ain't. This is more like it. The clutch too. The throttle has a cable, not a series of digital instructions, and even the gearshift is heavier and more connected. Forget the cars only being two model years apart, this was released in 1990 and it never left. I can smell petrol. Excellent.
On the road, it's much firmer (it has M-Tech suspension from factory), but not in a crashy way, just firm. It's on 16"s like the E46, so the difference in the chassis setup is easy to pinpoint. But once I get past the speed bumps on my estate and onto a more open road, that ceases to be an issue at all. The car has... urge. It's an urgent thing. When you plant your foot there's an immediacy to the way it kicks you in the back, the noise turns on and it begs for more revs. Snick the next gear home and as you feed the power back in that distinct kick is there again - not rough, not because you fluffed the change, but because everything right through from the throttle butterfly to the tyres feels directly connected and it does what you ask, when you ask. It's fantastically raw by comparison.
Little things really please me. Like when I rev-match on a downchange, it always seems to be exactly where I wanted it, just so. It feels lighter, pointier, everything has much more of a sharpened edge.. And of course, it's faster, which when you've owned the same car for two years you can't fail to notice. And become a little addicted to.
I'm bound to say it isn't half as good at being "a car". It tries, but it just isn't - it makes all sorts of little random-interval squelches from the HVAC, buzzes from fans, little pops and squeaks and farts.. It shudders badly when you upset it over a bad road, and if you get the right frequency you can even feel the steering column move. Oh, and at the moment the aftermarket head unit assaults you under hard acceleration by lunging out of the dashboard in a mad bid to skin your knuckles, but perhaps we can't blame the car for that one. It also has no cruise, no steering wheel controls, no parking sensors, no sunroof, no auto wipers (or even an adjustable intermittent), no nice soft-touch plastics, nowhere to put your shades, the air con doesn't work.. None of the things I'm used to. I drove it to work for a week and could see how, when you're tired or had a long day or just plain can't be arsed, it would annoy you.
In other words.. It's perfect.
I absolutely made the right decision buying the E46 back in 2012, it's especially obvious when you get back into it after this, it's just a superbly competent car. So there's my road car. This new toy is louder, harsher, tattier, less convenient, less finished... But when you have nowhere to be and everywhere to drive, it's the one. By a mile.
I'm gonna keep 'em both.
First outing: Blyton Park, 9th May. Watch this space!
As always, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Cheers guys!
Cheers guys! I'm definitely planning to make the most of it. It's quite amazing how different it is to the E46, but ideally so for this purpose.
Thanks for the advice, f0xy - I agree that worn bushes can make them very vague. I actually had a set of Powerflex front lower wishbone bushes waiting to replace the shot ones on the E46, but now I keep being tempted to put them on this instead.. I'm pretty sure they'll fit without any trouble!
I'd love to hear more about your car. What did you replace the bushes with, and did you do the rear diff ones as well, or just suspension?
Thanks for the advice, f0xy - I agree that worn bushes can make them very vague. I actually had a set of Powerflex front lower wishbone bushes waiting to replace the shot ones on the E46, but now I keep being tempted to put them on this instead.. I'm pretty sure they'll fit without any trouble!
I'd love to hear more about your car. What did you replace the bushes with, and did you do the rear diff ones as well, or just suspension?
Thanks a lot for that, Carpetsoiler ( 
) - very useful to hear your experiences. Sounds like I'd definitely better get the Powerflex purple bushes in the E46's front wishbone lollipops, and if I'm as pleased with the results as you, they'll go on the list for the E36 too.
I hadn't thought of ARB bushes but that also makes sense, I guess they're pretty straightforward to do, too?
No LSD on this car, I'm afraid. Not yet, anyway
I want to see how it handles at Blyton next week before I decide the hit list for upgrades, but I'm sure it'll come. I hear from the previous owner that when you're trying to be quick, the inside wheel will spin up a bit, though when you're trying to be sideways you can make both break away quite nicely!
At the moment, I think my upgrade route will likely be brakes (uprated pads and fluid, not much more as I have 16" wheels), suspension bushes and a slightly more aggressive alignment, then perhaps stiffer, lower but likely non-adjustable springs and dampers. Don't want to go silly on suspension on the grounds of cost, it just needs to feel precise enough to be good fun, not mega fast. By this time LSD will be on the wish list. Then I'll start thinking about something like the Supersprint exhaust manifold, liberating a few more horses and a lot more noise. Then M50 inlet manifold, which altogether might see it near 230bhp. Sounds like fun
) - very useful to hear your experiences. Sounds like I'd definitely better get the Powerflex purple bushes in the E46's front wishbone lollipops, and if I'm as pleased with the results as you, they'll go on the list for the E36 too.I hadn't thought of ARB bushes but that also makes sense, I guess they're pretty straightforward to do, too?
No LSD on this car, I'm afraid. Not yet, anyway
I want to see how it handles at Blyton next week before I decide the hit list for upgrades, but I'm sure it'll come. I hear from the previous owner that when you're trying to be quick, the inside wheel will spin up a bit, though when you're trying to be sideways you can make both break away quite nicely!At the moment, I think my upgrade route will likely be brakes (uprated pads and fluid, not much more as I have 16" wheels), suspension bushes and a slightly more aggressive alignment, then perhaps stiffer, lower but likely non-adjustable springs and dampers. Don't want to go silly on suspension on the grounds of cost, it just needs to feel precise enough to be good fun, not mega fast. By this time LSD will be on the wish list. Then I'll start thinking about something like the Supersprint exhaust manifold, liberating a few more horses and a lot more noise. Then M50 inlet manifold, which altogether might see it near 230bhp. Sounds like fun
Loads of very useful info again, CS - thanks, all duly noted. Do you have a link to your car's thread?
I'm keeping my eyes peeled for LSDs and if a suitable one appears, I'll buy it. Reckon I'll judge which polybush stiffness to go for after I get the purple ones in the E46, than I'll have a better idea of the effects.
Your power figures are impressive, I remember reading those in Hamster's thread when I looked through it a while back (hope you get that car back out again soon, by the way, looked like a great little project!).
I hadn't really thought about a solid flywheel conversion, how's the engine response? Just today I was thinking how leisurely your gearchanges need to be with all that inertia..
At the moment, I'm itching to get the car out, seeing it lurking behind the house is hard..
Bank holiday weekend should be spent prepping both cars, one for Blyton sprint, the other for its MOT! I think I'd better pick up some part-worn tyres to go on this too, the 3mm or so left on the Kumhos it has at the moment are unlikely to get me home after a day on track
I'm keeping my eyes peeled for LSDs and if a suitable one appears, I'll buy it. Reckon I'll judge which polybush stiffness to go for after I get the purple ones in the E46, than I'll have a better idea of the effects.
Your power figures are impressive, I remember reading those in Hamster's thread when I looked through it a while back (hope you get that car back out again soon, by the way, looked like a great little project!).
I hadn't really thought about a solid flywheel conversion, how's the engine response? Just today I was thinking how leisurely your gearchanges need to be with all that inertia..
At the moment, I'm itching to get the car out, seeing it lurking behind the house is hard..
Bank holiday weekend should be spent prepping both cars, one for Blyton sprint, the other for its MOT! I think I'd better pick up some part-worn tyres to go on this too, the 3mm or so left on the Kumhos it has at the moment are unlikely to get me home after a day on track
Well, I think I had a very successful first outing at Blyton on Friday!
The morning started off damp with more showers making it wet, but it dried up into the afternoon which made for a nice chance to see how the car handled all conditions. It's downright lairy in the wet, with attempts to go quickly provoking the inside wheel spinning up, and mid-corner pokes rewarded with nice, progressive slides. I found it quite intuitive to throw around, it seems to enjoy being sideways!
When I got a bit more serious I found a car that felt a bit tired, with vague brakes, soft springs and little to no damping - but beneath this there's clearly a lot of potential and I thoroughly enjoyed it when everything's tightened up I think it's going to make a fantastic piece of kit, but even now it's great fun and quite well balanced. Makes a rather nice noise too.
I was impressed with its durability, the powertrain standing up very well indeed, kepeing itself cool and performing just as strongly at the end of the day. It developed a small tapping noise from the head at idle, but I put this down to the oil having been heated up more severely than usual and it seems to be clearing now. I got an indicated 10.8mpg on track, which is about 0.4L/min, pretty good actually. Though not as good as 36.7mpg on the trip up there!
We had an open pitlane morning on the Outer Circuit, then five timed runs each after lunch. We then swapped to the Eastern configuration for the rest of the afternoon, which was more technical and quite a good challenge! Here's an onboard video of my fastest timed run
Thanks to Mr Soiler above, yet another set of Style 30 wheels arrived just before I went up to Blyton. I thought I might need them for spare tyres, but as it turned out I came back on the same set of Kumhos I drove up on, and brakes were rather more of a concern! I eventually wore completely through the front right inside pad when braking from 100mph for a 40mph entry, which was a bit interesting and made for a careful drive home. At least it was my very last session at ten to five!
This puts more serious pads at the top of my list, perhaps EBC Redstuff. The standard items didn't fade as much as I expected at Blyton, but a step up in durability would be welcome. I'll likely change the fluid at the same time, and I'm considering a set of braided steel hoses to improve feel and confidence, anyone care to share their experience on that?
Brake dust all washed away, and lurking in my back garden again..
The morning started off damp with more showers making it wet, but it dried up into the afternoon which made for a nice chance to see how the car handled all conditions. It's downright lairy in the wet, with attempts to go quickly provoking the inside wheel spinning up, and mid-corner pokes rewarded with nice, progressive slides. I found it quite intuitive to throw around, it seems to enjoy being sideways!
When I got a bit more serious I found a car that felt a bit tired, with vague brakes, soft springs and little to no damping - but beneath this there's clearly a lot of potential and I thoroughly enjoyed it
when everything's tightened up I think it's going to make a fantastic piece of kit, but even now it's great fun and quite well balanced. Makes a rather nice noise too.I was impressed with its durability, the powertrain standing up very well indeed, kepeing itself cool and performing just as strongly at the end of the day. It developed a small tapping noise from the head at idle, but I put this down to the oil having been heated up more severely than usual and it seems to be clearing now. I got an indicated 10.8mpg on track, which is about 0.4L/min, pretty good actually. Though not as good as 36.7mpg on the trip up there!
We had an open pitlane morning on the Outer Circuit, then five timed runs each after lunch. We then swapped to the Eastern configuration for the rest of the afternoon, which was more technical and quite a good challenge! Here's an onboard video of my fastest timed run
Thanks to Mr Soiler above, yet another set of Style 30 wheels arrived just before I went up to Blyton. I thought I might need them for spare tyres, but as it turned out I came back on the same set of Kumhos I drove up on, and brakes were rather more of a concern! I eventually wore completely through the front right inside pad when braking from 100mph for a 40mph entry, which was a bit interesting and made for a careful drive home. At least it was my very last session at ten to five!
This puts more serious pads at the top of my list, perhaps EBC Redstuff. The standard items didn't fade as much as I expected at Blyton, but a step up in durability would be welcome. I'll likely change the fluid at the same time, and I'm considering a set of braided steel hoses to improve feel and confidence, anyone care to share their experience on that?
Brake dust all washed away, and lurking in my back garden again..
I managed to take advantage of some (brief!) breaks in the weather today to get a look at my brakes and drop the old oil out. Front right pads perhaps a little further down than I'd have planned..
Worthy replacements!
The left-hand pads were nowhere near as bad, still worth replacing but there was 2-3mm left on them. I imagine some of this is down to Blyton being an anticlockwise circuit and most sessions were without a passenger, so the right side would have been loaded up a fair bit more. But it may also have had something to do with this brake duct, which was missing from the right side until this afternoon:
Alongside the fog light, that fell victim to a cone in the previous owner's last track day - cheers James! - but it seems to have gone back on OK.
The car's now sitting with no oil in it, since a huge thunderstorm hit at an inopportune moment, but on Monday I'll refill it with Mobil 1 0W40 and hopefully change the stuck-open thermostat too. I say hopefully, since in order to do that I have to get the viscous fan coupling undone, with a huge 32mm spanner bought for the purpose!
In other news, a set of E46 328i caliper carriers are on their way to me. These will allow me to fit 300mm front discs from that car, up from the 286mm I currently have, but still fit 16" wheels. The calipers are identical so no other changes needed, just the discs and pads, which is nice.
I also had a bit of a trial fit of the aluminium air intake heatshield that I made for my E46, but annoyingly the layout is quite different and it'd need a bit of butchering to fit properly. It also seems harder to get a good cold air feed on this car. To that end, I'm thinking of getting a Dave F type setup - anyone know where I can still source one?!
Worthy replacements!
The left-hand pads were nowhere near as bad, still worth replacing but there was 2-3mm left on them. I imagine some of this is down to Blyton being an anticlockwise circuit and most sessions were without a passenger, so the right side would have been loaded up a fair bit more. But it may also have had something to do with this brake duct, which was missing from the right side until this afternoon:
Alongside the fog light, that fell victim to a cone in the previous owner's last track day - cheers James!
- but it seems to have gone back on OK.The car's now sitting with no oil in it, since a huge thunderstorm hit at an inopportune moment, but on Monday I'll refill it with Mobil 1 0W40 and hopefully change the stuck-open thermostat too. I say hopefully, since in order to do that I have to get the viscous fan coupling undone, with a huge 32mm spanner bought for the purpose!
In other news, a set of E46 328i caliper carriers are on their way to me. These will allow me to fit 300mm front discs from that car, up from the 286mm I currently have, but still fit 16" wheels. The calipers are identical so no other changes needed, just the discs and pads, which is nice.
I also had a bit of a trial fit of the aluminium air intake heatshield that I made for my E46, but annoyingly the layout is quite different and it'd need a bit of butchering to fit properly. It also seems harder to get a good cold air feed on this car. To that end, I'm thinking of getting a Dave F type setup - anyone know where I can still source one?!
Heh, indeed
I'm planning to go in stages with the brakes. First, standard discs with these Redstuff pads and fresh ATE Super Blue fluid. I'm hoping this will stand up alright. Then in a while I'll upgrade to the 300mm discs for a bit of extra margin. If I've underestimated how much I'm asking of the car, then I'll think about 325mm 330ci brakes but I don't want to go that far as I have twelve 16" wheels I'd like to keep using!
I emailed the seller of the first "breaking" E46 328i I found on eBay, and he was happy to send me the carriers for 30 inc P&P, which I thought was a good result. They're around 150 a side if you want new ones from a dealer..
I feared as much about the DaveF kits. I think with some choice adjustments I could get my heatshield to fit, but I want to study the DaveF setup to see where he's routed the intake as space looks a little tighter than E46 as well.
Sounds like your mate has found another good one! Decent suspension is right behind sorting the brakes, and I'm hopeful that controlling the body roll will help the open diff be slightly less annoying, though eventually I know I'll need an LSD to feel I can really push the car properly. I don't mind the gearshift all that much, perhaps because I'm so used to it from my road car, and anyway I always have the gear ready before the revs are right so a lightened flywheel would probably come first.
ETA - PH is being daft and dropping pound signs from posts again, insert as appropriate..
I'm planning to go in stages with the brakes. First, standard discs with these Redstuff pads and fresh ATE Super Blue fluid. I'm hoping this will stand up alright. Then in a while I'll upgrade to the 300mm discs for a bit of extra margin. If I've underestimated how much I'm asking of the car, then I'll think about 325mm 330ci brakes but I don't want to go that far as I have twelve 16" wheels I'd like to keep using!
I emailed the seller of the first "breaking" E46 328i I found on eBay, and he was happy to send me the carriers for 30 inc P&P, which I thought was a good result. They're around 150 a side if you want new ones from a dealer..
I feared as much about the DaveF kits. I think with some choice adjustments I could get my heatshield to fit, but I want to study the DaveF setup to see where he's routed the intake as space looks a little tighter than E46 as well.
Sounds like your mate has found another good one! Decent suspension is right behind sorting the brakes, and I'm hopeful that controlling the body roll will help the open diff be slightly less annoying, though eventually I know I'll need an LSD to feel I can really push the car properly. I don't mind the gearshift all that much, perhaps because I'm so used to it from my road car, and anyway I always have the gear ready before the revs are right so a lightened flywheel would probably come first.
ETA - PH is being daft and dropping pound signs from posts again, insert as appropriate..
I was very pleased with the brake carriers, and that's a lovely noise coming from the back of your car but I'm strictly focusing on cornering and stopping first!
With that in mind, the next upgrades arrived..
Mmmmm
HSD Dualtechs from Driftworks, these offer one-way adjustable damping, camber/caster front top mounts and adjustable ride height without altering spring rate - all for less money than a basic set of fixed Bilstein struts, so it was a bit of a no-brainer! They arrived a bit late and left only one weekend for fitting before my next event, but that seemed like plenty of time..
Until we had the wheels off, and then the first bolt we touched sheared clean off! No photos as I wasn't quite in the mood, but we used up a few hours and many drill bits extracting one of the front bottom mount bolts from the hub, that was no fun. Happily, apart from that everything undid and came apart dead easy, and we could have achieved the whole job in four hours otherwise. Huge thanks to Matt for his help with the whole job, because at the first hurdle I'd have been well buggered on my own!
Measuring up to make sure we got both sides even:
Very tasty top mounts:
And not a lot of droop now!
Rear dampers, old versus new.. There were a few odd handling characteristics from the rear end at Blyton, and these explained why! The left-hand damper felt a bit soft and compressed fairly easily in the hands, but the right-hand one was staggeringly slack, maybe only a third the resistance. Already I was feeling pretty happy about making this change!
Rear spring comparison. Actually not so massive a drop as it looks, since the new springs are also a lot stiffer, but the car's still gone down quite a bit at the back.
So we got the car on the ground, and went to fire it up, roll it back and forth and get it settled for alignment. Except it wouldn't start. After trying various little tricks including jumping it with an LS400 - if that ain't enough, nothing will be - no joy, which was a bit shattering. This issue has a thread all of its own but suffice to say that you should never leave the key in one of these cars for an extended period. If the key's in the ignition while the battery discharges, the car unlearns it and you cannot start. A new key from the dealer (£46, two day lead time) sorted it out.
Turns out the geometry was pretty good, about time we had some luck! The posture was nicely balanced, rear at 610mm both sides and front at 648 left, 650 right. I was happy enough with that, since that's the side I'm gonna be sitting. The front is much higher than it should be but I was concerned with arch and strut rubbing, I'd had to space the front out 15mm (with OEM setup of 225/50R16 on 7Jx16 ET46 Style 30s) and didn't want any issues just yet. Rear toe was dead straight and the front was toeing out about 40 minutes, bit too much but if we tried adjusting it on the driveway we'd likely have made it worse. Front camber nicely balanced left/right at about -3°.
I had braided hoses and fresh ATE Super Blue fluid for it, but after the various nightmares these didn't get done and the car went to Curborough without them. The suspension bedded in quite nicely beforehand, feeling really quite incredible compared to the original stuff! After running in on full soft, I wound all four dampers up to 4 clicks of 16, which felt better on track. I think it'll stand more without being overly stiff.
Here's a quick vid of a timed run towards the end of the day, 1'11.46 on the new "figure 8" layout.
The car was fantastic - I took a load of tools and four spare wheels, and didn't need anything at all! Did 30 laps or so over the day, thoroughly enjoying the new-found body control and predictability. The car feels so much better, I didn't realise how much I was instictively correcting for body roll until there wasn't really any, and all the stupid judders and rattles it used to make are gone.
EBC Redstuff front pads stood up quite well, though I didn't have any sessions over 6-7 minutes so I didn't expect much fade. I had to disable the ABS, as it wasn't a fan of the unsettled braking zones that Curborough demands, but with that done the brakes felt great. Controllable, feelsome and very powerful.
At the moment, apart from setup work to get the geometry just so, the only thing I feel the car really needs is a limited-slip diff. This new suspension has definitely minimised the problem, but particularly in fast second-gear exits you can still get a bit of a one-tyre-fire if you push too hard. That said, it can slide quite nicely if you provoke it, I'll put together a highlight reel
A very lengthy update, but also a very positive one! The car feels great now, a pleasure to drive, and if an Elise driver can have a go and say "you really undersold that, what a fantastic toy", then I reckon I've done rather well
With that in mind, the next upgrades arrived..
Mmmmm
HSD Dualtechs from Driftworks, these offer one-way adjustable damping, camber/caster front top mounts and adjustable ride height without altering spring rate - all for less money than a basic set of fixed Bilstein struts, so it was a bit of a no-brainer! They arrived a bit late and left only one weekend for fitting before my next event, but that seemed like plenty of time..Until we had the wheels off, and then the first bolt we touched sheared clean off! No photos as I wasn't quite in the mood, but we used up a few hours and many drill bits extracting one of the front bottom mount bolts from the hub, that was no fun. Happily, apart from that everything undid and came apart dead easy, and we could have achieved the whole job in four hours otherwise. Huge thanks to Matt for his help with the whole job, because at the first hurdle I'd have been well buggered on my own!
Measuring up to make sure we got both sides even:
Very tasty top mounts:
And not a lot of droop now!
Rear dampers, old versus new.. There were a few odd handling characteristics from the rear end at Blyton, and these explained why! The left-hand damper felt a bit soft and compressed fairly easily in the hands, but the right-hand one was staggeringly slack, maybe only a third the resistance. Already I was feeling pretty happy about making this change!
Rear spring comparison. Actually not so massive a drop as it looks, since the new springs are also a lot stiffer, but the car's still gone down quite a bit at the back.
So we got the car on the ground, and went to fire it up, roll it back and forth and get it settled for alignment. Except it wouldn't start. After trying various little tricks including jumping it with an LS400 - if that ain't enough, nothing will be - no joy, which was a bit shattering. This issue has a thread all of its own but suffice to say that you should never leave the key in one of these cars for an extended period. If the key's in the ignition while the battery discharges, the car unlearns it and you cannot start. A new key from the dealer (£46, two day lead time) sorted it out.
Turns out the geometry was pretty good, about time we had some luck! The posture was nicely balanced, rear at 610mm both sides and front at 648 left, 650 right. I was happy enough with that, since that's the side I'm gonna be sitting. The front is much higher than it should be but I was concerned with arch and strut rubbing, I'd had to space the front out 15mm (with OEM setup of 225/50R16 on 7Jx16 ET46 Style 30s) and didn't want any issues just yet. Rear toe was dead straight and the front was toeing out about 40 minutes, bit too much but if we tried adjusting it on the driveway we'd likely have made it worse. Front camber nicely balanced left/right at about -3°.
I had braided hoses and fresh ATE Super Blue fluid for it, but after the various nightmares these didn't get done and the car went to Curborough without them. The suspension bedded in quite nicely beforehand, feeling really quite incredible compared to the original stuff! After running in on full soft, I wound all four dampers up to 4 clicks of 16, which felt better on track. I think it'll stand more without being overly stiff.
Here's a quick vid of a timed run towards the end of the day, 1'11.46 on the new "figure 8" layout.
The car was fantastic - I took a load of tools and four spare wheels, and didn't need anything at all! Did 30 laps or so over the day, thoroughly enjoying the new-found body control and predictability. The car feels so much better, I didn't realise how much I was instictively correcting for body roll until there wasn't really any, and all the stupid judders and rattles it used to make are gone.
EBC Redstuff front pads stood up quite well, though I didn't have any sessions over 6-7 minutes so I didn't expect much fade. I had to disable the ABS, as it wasn't a fan of the unsettled braking zones that Curborough demands, but with that done the brakes felt great. Controllable, feelsome and very powerful.
At the moment, apart from setup work to get the geometry just so, the only thing I feel the car really needs is a limited-slip diff. This new suspension has definitely minimised the problem, but particularly in fast second-gear exits you can still get a bit of a one-tyre-fire if you push too hard. That said, it can slide quite nicely if you provoke it, I'll put together a highlight reel
A very lengthy update, but also a very positive one! The car feels great now, a pleasure to drive, and if an Elise driver can have a go and say "you really undersold that, what a fantastic toy", then I reckon I've done rather well
Synchromesh said:
Stop it. Just stop it. I want it back.
Hehe, tough Cheers guys, very pleased with the progress so far. The brake lines are Driftworks' own brand, I don't actually know who makes them but since I was ordering parts from DW anyway and knew people who'd fitted them before, seemed worth adding. Nice chunk cheaper than the Goodridge benchmark.
Next event is undecided so far, my work's sprint club will be running again in September, possibly at Blyton again, but I'm hunting for a good value track day on a "proper" circuit. It'd be good to get some real miles on it!
I thought that as well, I was very impressed, especially ordering it on the Monday evening and having it arrive Wednesday morning! £46 before a 10% discount for working for an (unrelated) OEM myself too, nice policy
It is the very most basic key you could have for a late E36, though - I don't have remote locking and this one doesn't even have the little flashlight, it's just a mechanical key with EWS II transponder. I imagine the more complex ones are a fair bit more expensive.
Thus far I've found the dealer to be absolutely excellent, I use Lancaster BMW in Milton Keynes and nothing is too much trouble. Stuff not in stock arrives extremely quickly, same day if you ring in the morning, and prices are very good indeed for any BMW-manufactured parts. Parts that come from suppliers (eg. alternator, air con condenser etc) are definitely not cheap, mind.
It is the very most basic key you could have for a late E36, though - I don't have remote locking and this one doesn't even have the little flashlight, it's just a mechanical key with EWS II transponder. I imagine the more complex ones are a fair bit more expensive.
Thus far I've found the dealer to be absolutely excellent, I use Lancaster BMW in Milton Keynes and nothing is too much trouble. Stuff not in stock arrives extremely quickly, same day if you ring in the morning, and prices are very good indeed for any BMW-manufactured parts. Parts that come from suppliers (eg. alternator, air con condenser etc) are definitely not cheap, mind.
Life support required after a lonely six weeks at home while I finished off my year's placement:
But with the battery charged back up, she fired without any trouble and ran fine. There were some tappety noises from the head, but a short drive cleared those and then she sailed through an MOT with no problem at all. I'm preparing for another day at Blyton this coming Friday, which involves a shakedown to make sure all was still well (seems so), fitting a less restrictive intake system (more on that to come as parts arrive next week), and bleeding the brakes as the pedal was very, very long. I had some issues with that:
Both rear bleed nipples looked like this, which didn't impress me much. Anyone have any ideas which don't involve replacing the calipers? I bled the fronts anyway, and got a fair bit of air out of those which has helped the pedal feel a bit but it's still spongier than I'd like (and much longer than my E46's very nice response).
Getting back into this after doing a few thousand miles in my E46 reminds me that it's very, very direct and a fair bit quicker!
But with the battery charged back up, she fired without any trouble and ran fine. There were some tappety noises from the head, but a short drive cleared those and then she sailed through an MOT with no problem at all. I'm preparing for another day at Blyton this coming Friday, which involves a shakedown to make sure all was still well (seems so), fitting a less restrictive intake system (more on that to come as parts arrive next week), and bleeding the brakes as the pedal was very, very long. I had some issues with that:
Both rear bleed nipples looked like this, which didn't impress me much. Anyone have any ideas which don't involve replacing the calipers? I bled the fronts anyway, and got a fair bit of air out of those which has helped the pedal feel a bit but it's still spongier than I'd like (and much longer than my E46's very nice response).
Getting back into this after doing a few thousand miles in my E46 reminds me that it's very, very direct and a fair bit quicker!
Thanks - I did try molegrips but the problem was that mine are too wide, so I couldn't clamp just the surface that's meant to have flats, I was getting the nipple itself too. I'll have to see if I can find some narrower ones, but it really does look like they've been welded in place for all the car's 17 years which is confusing!
Another very successful day at Blyton Park, this time on the much more technical Eastern layout. Recommended - it took a few sessions to really get my head round it and the great big long right-hander "Curva Grande" doesn't seem to have any correct answer, so there's plenty of challenge there for an airfield track.
Plenty of challenge for my brakes, too after four ten-tenth laps I got a big vibration under braking, initially thought a wheel bearing might have collapsed but after a cooldown lap, my rear brakes were still pluming smoke and had scored the discs, despite having lots of friction material left! Oops. EBC Redstuff pads on order for those to match the front!
Other than that, no problems at all, the car performed brilliantly and I was thoroughly impressed with the suspension setup. I had the wheel alignment sorted out, since it appeared to be all to cock since fitting the coilovers, and this was £85 well spent since I had about forty minutes total front toe out, not evenly distributed, and a rear right that toed out while the rear left toed in, crabwise.. Now though, I have the following settings:
Front: -2.00° camber, -12' (1.6mm) total toe (out).
Rear: -1.50° camber, +10' (1.2mm) total toe (in).
I didn't have the caster measured, and the way I have the coilovers installed means I can't adjust it. Less camber at the rear is intentional since it has camber gain when loaded up, the front doesn't. These were based on some collective wisdom for E36 M3 setups and felt hugely better (unsurprisingly), it's now a very adjustable platform and great fun to slide around.
Here's a video of my fastest timed run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaKVF37VNdY
And for comparison, take a look back at the absurd lack of body control, failed damper-based juddering and general sogginess when I started out back in May: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpo3WM6pgqM
It really isn't an exaggeration to say it's like driving a different car! I'm thrilled with the results, and notching up a class win and second overall in the sprint series is a nice bonus
Oh, and if it sounds a bit different, that might be something to do with this little setup..
Sounds fantastic, massively louder and gives the car so much more "urge", I love it! Heatshield seems to do its job fine, no apparent loss of power and the inlet temp doesn't seem to rise in hard use. I've got a dyno run booked on Saturday so it'll be very interesting to see a) how it performs as standard anyway, and b) what impact the open filter has when fitted.
Plenty of challenge for my brakes, too
after four ten-tenth laps I got a big vibration under braking, initially thought a wheel bearing might have collapsed but after a cooldown lap, my rear brakes were still pluming smoke and had scored the discs, despite having lots of friction material left! Oops. EBC Redstuff pads on order for those to match the front!Other than that, no problems at all, the car performed brilliantly and I was thoroughly impressed with the suspension setup. I had the wheel alignment sorted out, since it appeared to be all to cock since fitting the coilovers, and this was £85 well spent since I had about forty minutes total front toe out, not evenly distributed, and a rear right that toed out while the rear left toed in, crabwise.. Now though, I have the following settings:
Front: -2.00° camber, -12' (1.6mm) total toe (out).
Rear: -1.50° camber, +10' (1.2mm) total toe (in).
I didn't have the caster measured, and the way I have the coilovers installed means I can't adjust it. Less camber at the rear is intentional since it has camber gain when loaded up, the front doesn't. These were based on some collective wisdom for E36 M3 setups and felt hugely better (unsurprisingly), it's now a very adjustable platform and great fun to slide around.
Here's a video of my fastest timed run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaKVF37VNdY
And for comparison, take a look back at the absurd lack of body control, failed damper-based juddering and general sogginess when I started out back in May: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpo3WM6pgqM
It really isn't an exaggeration to say it's like driving a different car! I'm thrilled with the results, and notching up a class win and second overall in the sprint series is a nice bonus
Oh, and if it sounds a bit different, that might be something to do with this little setup..
Sounds fantastic, massively louder and gives the car so much more "urge", I love it! Heatshield seems to do its job fine, no apparent loss of power and the inlet temp doesn't seem to rise in hard use. I've got a dyno run booked on Saturday so it'll be very interesting to see a) how it performs as standard anyway, and b) what impact the open filter has when fitted.
Ah yeah, I almost forgot, a colleague on the last Blyton sprint managed to capture this rather pleasing bit of oppo
And after a few comments that the Kumhos are pleasingly smokey on launch, one of the marshalls decided to take this to demonstrate.. Seems they were right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQDoE2yuOM
Next outing is planned for 1st November, open pit day on Bedford's GT layout, where I'll be sharing the car with my other half! Should make for a great day. New rear discs and Redstuff pads required before then, but otherwise I think it's in good shape
And after a few comments that the Kumhos are pleasingly smokey on launch, one of the marshalls decided to take this to demonstrate.. Seems they were right!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AQDoE2yuOM
Next outing is planned for 1st November, open pit day on Bedford's GT layout, where I'll be sharing the car with my other half! Should make for a great day. New rear discs and Redstuff pads required before then, but otherwise I think it's in good shape
Thanks! I agree with you there, it's actually worse on the new suspension setup because the car barely rolls at all - this looks pretty pedestrian but was on the limit:
I think replacement bleed nipples are definitely a good idea, thanks for the link. My front ones are fine, it's the rears that are causing the problem, but it's hard to find definitive info on what thread they are. The fronts use a 7mm spanner and the rears a 6mm, and I have read in places that some rear calipers have M6x1 threads. I'm hoping BMW have been sensible and only used the ludicrously small 6mm nut to indicate an M6 thread within...
Maybe I'll just take a punt on M6x1 and hope I can coax the originals out somehow. These ones look nice, for having 8mm nuts which a) is more sensible and b) makes it possible to fit a socket over the nipple end!
I think replacement bleed nipples are definitely a good idea, thanks for the link. My front ones are fine, it's the rears that are causing the problem, but it's hard to find definitive info on what thread they are. The fronts use a 7mm spanner and the rears a 6mm, and I have read in places that some rear calipers have M6x1 threads. I'm hoping BMW have been sensible and only used the ludicrously small 6mm nut to indicate an M6 thread within...
Maybe I'll just take a punt on M6x1 and hope I can coax the originals out somehow. These ones look nice, for having 8mm nuts which a) is more sensible and b) makes it possible to fit a socket over the nipple end!
I thought I'd put the best bits of the footage I have so far into a little video telling the story - if you have a few minutes spare, take a look and let me know what you think
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHRaiBCeRRk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHRaiBCeRRk
Thanks! Yours looks a lovely example, I really like that. A baby, at a whole three thousand miles younger than mine!
Now tempted by updating to clear lenses.. and replacing the missing fog lamp.. must keep reminding myself it's a track car and I should spend my money on brakes instead
Now tempted by updating to clear lenses.. and replacing the missing fog lamp.. must keep reminding myself it's a track car and I should spend my money on brakes instead
Parking my E46 side by side with PHer BorkFactor's example sparks off the amber/clear debate nicely!
I do like the look of my E36 at the moment, but yours struck me as looking a lot more modern and I think the lenses play a big part.
Ever helpful it's on the wrong bloody side! Though I have before now thought "Well, if one's missing I might as well take the other out to match and run some ducting through"..
A little bit down the to do list at the moment, though, first is replacing those nightmare rear bleed nipples and second is deciding what brake discs to go for. Ideally something that won't start overheating and warping once it gets hot against decent pads, but then it needs to keep to the budget approach too
I do like the look of my E36 at the moment, but yours struck me as looking a lot more modern and I think the lenses play a big part.
722Adam said:
McSam said:
Now tempted by updating to clear lenses.. and fitting a cold air feed through the missing fog lamp aperture... because track car.
Sorted that for you it's on the wrong bloody side! Though I have before now thought "Well, if one's missing I might as well take the other out to match and run some ducting through"..A little bit down the to do list at the moment, though, first is replacing those nightmare rear bleed nipples and second is deciding what brake discs to go for. Ideally something that won't start overheating and warping once it gets hot against decent pads, but then it needs to keep to the budget approach too
Thanks all! I've been through my share of E36 build threads, both before choosing this car and for inspiration as I go on, and while this is nowhere near the calibre of some I'm glad it's being read
Jordan, many thanks, please feel free to drop me an email (since your page tells me you don't accept PMs).
Thanks for all the info, cmoose - your car looks a great example! What seats are those, and how much effort were they to fit? As much as I like the sports leather front seats I have now, I can't help thinking they'd be better off fetching money on eBay than weighing this car down! Z3 rack is on my to do list, part number is very valuable info, thanks for that.
After previous advice, I already have a set of E46 front caliper carriers to fit 300mm discs, as soon as the current parts need replacing, on they go. As an added bonus, the discs are only a couple of quid extra and the pads are the same cost!
As for discs, I've decided to give Brembo MAX a go. The rears need replacing, the Brembos cost scarcely more than boggo parts and seem to be reasonably well reviewed so I'll get a set fitted along with Redstuff pads. Nice to know you never had any issues with standard discs on track, I'm hoping so long as my pads are good enough not to overheat, I'll find the same!
Jordan, many thanks, please feel free to drop me an email (since your page tells me you don't accept PMs).
croyde said:
I love my E36 323. Bought it at 6 months old back in '98 and it's still with me. Brilliant car.
Cost me £18k back then and probably worth £500 if I sold now, if I'm lucky. Not selling as I have just bought 4 new tyres at over £400 the lot
Great to hear of a lifetime car like that, I really love the idea and would like to do it myself some day - but for now I'm rather limited to my pre-loved examples! Keep it going Cost me £18k back then and probably worth £500 if I sold now, if I'm lucky. Not selling as I have just bought 4 new tyres at over £400 the lot
Thanks for all the info, cmoose - your car looks a great example! What seats are those, and how much effort were they to fit? As much as I like the sports leather front seats I have now, I can't help thinking they'd be better off fetching money on eBay than weighing this car down! Z3 rack is on my to do list, part number is very valuable info, thanks for that.
After previous advice, I already have a set of E46 front caliper carriers to fit 300mm discs, as soon as the current parts need replacing, on they go. As an added bonus, the discs are only a couple of quid extra and the pads are the same cost!
As for discs, I've decided to give Brembo MAX a go. The rears need replacing, the Brembos cost scarcely more than boggo parts and seem to be reasonably well reviewed so I'll get a set fitted along with Redstuff pads. Nice to know you never had any issues with standard discs on track, I'm hoping so long as my pads are good enough not to overheat, I'll find the same!
g3org3y said:
Intermittent wiper info
Top bearding, well I never! Since my E46 has a thumbwheel-type switch on the stalk, and this doesn't, I presumed there was no adjustment but that's very cool, completely manual control and you can change it on the fly too! I'll give it a go. Could actually come in handy on track, when there's enough rain that you need an occasional sweep but not enough to use any normal intermittent setting, would save me wasting concentration doing it manually.Edited by McSam on Sunday 5th October 22:07
g3org3y said:
McSam said:
I drove it to work for a week and could see how, when you're tired or had a long day or just plain can't be arsed, it would annoy you.
In other words.. It's perfect.
In other words.. It's perfect.
Try driving an E30 cabrio as a daily! The E36 is ruddy luxury by comparison.
The E36 presents very nice blend of old school mechanicals and comfort. Leather, aircon - what more do you want? Everyone knows that auto lights and auto wipers are for the mentally feeble. The only feature I'd like is cruise control and that's because of the reasonably frequent drives I do from London to Scotland.
I think I'd be happy enough using it as a daily, but it's amazing how much it highlights the huge gap between it and my E46, which feels like a lovely wafty barge by comparison.The only trouble is, both cars have the same steering wheel, except in the E46 where the vast majority of my miles are done, it has audio and cruise buttons on it - so in the E36 I often find myself going for switches that aren't there!
Glad to hear you had good experience with the Brembo Max discs, especially as some deliveries turned up this week:
These will be going on the rear this weekend, hopefully along with braided hoses all round!Hamster69 said:
Morning.
I have been through a few sets of pads on track now. Brembo's, Ferrodo DS3000 and now performance friction. I can not rate the Performance friction carbon metallic pad highly enough. Much cheaper than the Ferrodo's. Much less dust, no fade that I have experienced and great stopping. Discs are your choice. I found standard brembo a to be fine.
Thanks for the tip, that sounds quite impressive. I've just had a quick look and found these, are they the same compound you've used? If so, scarcely any more than the EBC pads so I might give them a look next!I have been through a few sets of pads on track now. Brembo's, Ferrodo DS3000 and now performance friction. I can not rate the Performance friction carbon metallic pad highly enough. Much cheaper than the Ferrodo's. Much less dust, no fade that I have experienced and great stopping. Discs are your choice. I found standard brembo a to be fine.
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