My own barn find - Peugeot 505
Discussion
So the story goes, my old man bought this Peugeot 505 shorty after the fall of iron curtain in '93 (I'm from Kazakhstan, there's no such thing on PH country list). I was just 13-young Pioneer then, so you can imagine my excitement being driven in something Western among Ladas and Moskviches at the time. I was completely in love with it.
My parents separated in '94 (I stayed with mom) and the next year something happened to Pug's fuel system (presumably a paraffine plug somewhere in fuel lines caused by very poor diesel fuel), so my father just put it in his garage, locked the doors and probably threw out the keys. I was told he had removed the engine
Since then, I had no idea what happened to the car - his house was bought by someone else, and our family had no legal connections with the car.
Back in 2012, terrified by the world's end perspective, I dug out all of our family papers and thumbed through just to find the Pug's technical passport (V5 in queen's) registered to my late father. I was so excited that I just jumped in the car and drove 400 miles to find out what's with the car. I was then been refused to be let in and see the car. So that had to go in a court.
2 years since, I finally put my hands onto it, and it's beautiful
What's more amazing - how it came alive. Well, almost.
Standing tall and proud with its Turbo badge on - not so cool these days, I imagine
After 19 years in a barn - all four tyres just were pumped up and we pushed it out. Still can't quite believe the quality of those old balloons still holding pressure. Also, when did you last seen a thread like this
Before
While
And after
So the old Pug feels and looks sound for me, with a few obvious rust spots, dents and cracks here and there, but nothing major. Just how robust are those things? All I have to spend for now to get it running (I know I'm asking for it) is £80 and drive it somewhere I can get my spanners out.
I thought it was disassembled and had no engine, but the reality turned out, well, better. My initial plan was to put what's left of my Audi V8 in it with E34 getrag and rear differential, which I also happen to have, but for now I just want it to get running again. More pics if someone's interested.
My parents separated in '94 (I stayed with mom) and the next year something happened to Pug's fuel system (presumably a paraffine plug somewhere in fuel lines caused by very poor diesel fuel), so my father just put it in his garage, locked the doors and probably threw out the keys. I was told he had removed the engine
Since then, I had no idea what happened to the car - his house was bought by someone else, and our family had no legal connections with the car.
Back in 2012, terrified by the world's end perspective, I dug out all of our family papers and thumbed through just to find the Pug's technical passport (V5 in queen's) registered to my late father. I was so excited that I just jumped in the car and drove 400 miles to find out what's with the car. I was then been refused to be let in and see the car. So that had to go in a court.
2 years since, I finally put my hands onto it, and it's beautiful
What's more amazing - how it came alive. Well, almost.
Standing tall and proud with its Turbo badge on - not so cool these days, I imagine
After 19 years in a barn - all four tyres just were pumped up and we pushed it out. Still can't quite believe the quality of those old balloons still holding pressure. Also, when did you last seen a thread like this
Before
While
And after
So the old Pug feels and looks sound for me, with a few obvious rust spots, dents and cracks here and there, but nothing major. Just how robust are those things? All I have to spend for now to get it running (I know I'm asking for it) is £80 and drive it somewhere I can get my spanners out.
I thought it was disassembled and had no engine, but the reality turned out, well, better. My initial plan was to put what's left of my Audi V8 in it with E34 getrag and rear differential, which I also happen to have, but for now I just want it to get running again. More pics if someone's interested.
Thanks chaps for kind responses.
There are a few nasty rust spots have been found after I thoroughly washed the car
On the front end carrier
On the sunroof when I removed the windshield. Doesn't look good but the spot area is limited to the moving part. No leaks detected, thankfully, and it works well, just needs a little grease.
There's also a very nasty one under the passenger door, which has even deformed. Didn't take any pictures of it
The driver's side door is spotless. There a few bits missing from the bodywork, namely passenger side mirror, chrome headlight surroundings, and radiator grille fell apart. Not sure if I can find any of these parts here, so ebay is my friend.
The interior is in relatively good nick.
Just how comfy are those tweed seats! Best I've been in, have to say. My son preferred to sit in the car for almost all day, said he was very comfortable there.
Loved the shape of the instruments binnacle, there's something very elegant about it. The vinyl steering wheel is, simple as it looks, not tactile pleasant and needs to be reconditioned. The driving position is clever, with the gearlever kinked towards the driver.
I don't know if the mileage is genuine. Who cares? Definitely not me.
Engine bay looks good, bet it will start easily as soon as the fuel system gets clean.
As for keeping it original vs engine swap - I'm not sure yet, it's the driving experience that should make difference. The old lump is quite torque-rich but a bit agricultural as I (poorly) remember. However, the perspective of V8 Peugeot is very tempting, as I have all the parts and only need to machine an adapter plate and do some relatively easy welding. Time will tell. It stays an oil-burner for now, but unlikely to be like that for long. Mercedes M113 is also very tempting (and suitable), as is BMW M50, since I never had a straight six.
vroom - mine is 180 km/h
bob1179
I'm in Almaty, but moving to Odessa very soon. You even used a singular respectful form of "you're welcome". Cool. I'm not skilled in Kazakh TBH 
Will keep this thread updated! Thank you all.
There are a few nasty rust spots have been found after I thoroughly washed the car
On the front end carrier
On the sunroof when I removed the windshield. Doesn't look good but the spot area is limited to the moving part. No leaks detected, thankfully, and it works well, just needs a little grease.
There's also a very nasty one under the passenger door, which has even deformed. Didn't take any pictures of it
The driver's side door is spotless. There a few bits missing from the bodywork, namely passenger side mirror, chrome headlight surroundings, and radiator grille fell apart. Not sure if I can find any of these parts here, so ebay is my friend.The interior is in relatively good nick.
Just how comfy are those tweed seats! Best I've been in, have to say. My son preferred to sit in the car for almost all day, said he was very comfortable there.
Loved the shape of the instruments binnacle, there's something very elegant about it. The vinyl steering wheel is, simple as it looks, not tactile pleasant and needs to be reconditioned. The driving position is clever, with the gearlever kinked towards the driver.
I don't know if the mileage is genuine. Who cares? Definitely not me.
Engine bay looks good, bet it will start easily as soon as the fuel system gets clean.
As for keeping it original vs engine swap - I'm not sure yet, it's the driving experience that should make difference. The old lump is quite torque-rich but a bit agricultural as I (poorly) remember. However, the perspective of V8 Peugeot is very tempting, as I have all the parts and only need to machine an adapter plate and do some relatively easy welding. Time will tell. It stays an oil-burner for now, but unlikely to be like that for long. Mercedes M113 is also very tempting (and suitable), as is BMW M50, since I never had a straight six.
vroom - mine is 180 km/h
bob1179
I'm in Almaty, but moving to Odessa very soon. You even used a singular respectful form of "you're welcome". Cool. I'm not skilled in Kazakh TBH Will keep this thread updated! Thank you all.
Thank you all again for kind responses
I've found a reliable source of parts in France through ebay, an amiable getleman with whom I put in close contact after buying a door mirror. I knew the car will require a big deal of parts, but it appears that my estimations were somehow detracted - almost twenty years in a barn wouldn't pass without a toll. For instance, the gearlever simply fell apart in my hand into rather small pieces of tar, and there's a great deal of vinyl falls down every time I touch the steering wheel. So I ordered a great deal of interior bits, all the belts and rollers, some filters and more. As for the fuel system, I removed the fuel tank (with diesel in it turned into oil varnish
), pump and injectors and gave them to a local garage.
That's about it for the moment, and as I directly flew away to Ukraine after that I hope to return soon and get all things sorted.
Not sure on the steering wheel though. I really don't like the state of it now, and thinking of replacing it with something contemporary and pleasant to look at. I'd like a Momo Prototypo but collect it would not suit to such car. Motolita perhaps? Make your suggestions please.
One more question - I'd really like to turn headlights in French way, i.e. yellow. But I have absolutely no idea how. Any suggestions?
Thank you all!
I've found a reliable source of parts in France through ebay, an amiable getleman with whom I put in close contact after buying a door mirror. I knew the car will require a big deal of parts, but it appears that my estimations were somehow detracted - almost twenty years in a barn wouldn't pass without a toll. For instance, the gearlever simply fell apart in my hand into rather small pieces of tar, and there's a great deal of vinyl falls down every time I touch the steering wheel. So I ordered a great deal of interior bits, all the belts and rollers, some filters and more. As for the fuel system, I removed the fuel tank (with diesel in it turned into oil varnish
), pump and injectors and gave them to a local garage. That's about it for the moment, and as I directly flew away to Ukraine after that
I hope to return soon and get all things sorted.Not sure on the steering wheel though. I really don't like the state of it now, and thinking of replacing it with something contemporary and pleasant to look at. I'd like a Momo Prototypo but collect it would not suit to such car. Motolita perhaps? Make your suggestions please.
One more question - I'd really like to turn headlights in French way, i.e. yellow. But I have absolutely no idea how. Any suggestions?
Thank you all!
league67 said:
If you are still in Almaty and haven't been, there is a restaurant there called 'Medved' in microdistrict 27 (IIRC). Very good chechil (spelling?) cheese and palmeny (spelling?).
Very, very cool car.
The cheese you mentioned is of Caucasian origin, and is a favourite beer snack out there. And yes you spelled that right. Not the case for pelmeni though Very, very cool car.
They are basically very fat ravioli based on pork, or meat pockets as some say, originally from China. I haven't been in the place you've mentioned, but AFAIK they specialising in Siberian cusine, and am able to give you a little chart in the PH food section if you are willing to cook these at home.Sorry for O/T. I adore Central Asian foods
Funny you should ask that. The project has been on hold for two years until early spring this year. I had trouble re-registering it since we lost all related paperwork, but since it lives in a quite corrupted country, it cost me 250 GBPs to make the car officially mine without the need to prove anything. Yeah, I know - pistonheads and their third world problems
Second job was to make it running again by cleaning fueling system, removing the fuel tank and cleaning it of pulp that was once diesel fuel. There was also about 1.5 kilos of sand in there, which wasn't really a great surprise. I also found out that the lump was actually a lowly XD2S instead of XD3T, which I thought before; the same found in Sierras of that age. Then we put in new battery, and got the engine running. Turned out the radiator thought it was actually colander, and lost all water in a matter of minutes (I only put water in it for the first start). I wasn't impressed and glued it up with so called cold welding residue.
Otherwise it was trouble free, and I did some miles in it before realising that I hated the rattly cement mixer full of mad cats and nails, that some idjit called the engine. Actually, I never wanted the diesel from the start, but first experience has proven it to be unbearable. A week ago I've driven it to my friend's garage for close inspection, but even without it I knew the suspension was all borked.
Then I went about to local scrapyards to find a suitable engine. My first thought was of early Audi V8 engines since I know them well, preferably a 32V 3.6 over 4.2 for it's sweeter, lazier torque range (great low-down and mid-range, sufficient top end). However, since I know them well, I also knew their imminent design flaws, so I had my reservations. Most of the engines for sale, though, were dismantled, and I obviously wanted it to be complete.
One day, I stumbled upon a freshly delivered-from-Germany Audi A8 D2 equipped with 298bhp ABH engine in a scrapyard dedicated to Audis and Mercs, just being dismantled. It's quite a complicated design, however, relieved from many of the initial faults. I was quite excited and wanted to get it, despite the odometer showing 172K kilometers (106, 000 miles), which is quite a bit for that engine. One of the scrappers asked me that they could put it directly in my A8, and I said there wasn't any A8's in my stable, but an old french barge. He then joked that I should put in a larger lump, 'like this old bugger', and kicked the nearby engine block, complete with heads and all needed, extracted from a 1995 S500 W140.
Turns out they struggled to sell that M119, which I always admired as an engineering marvel, but knew little about. Perhaps cars equipped with it are too reliable to break, I thought. And 'no replacement for displacement' is always what I thought. 5 litre 324bhp Le Mans legend is what to go for, isn't it? So I spent a couple of evenings reading PDFs and internet stuff about it, and made a decision. I now own a german lump and a french rustbucket. Good.
Two days ago I bought a 3.23:1 E34 525 gearbox and open diff to go with it, after understanding that the original 'box won't do, and today contacted the excellent people at Bird's Garage for Quaife differential, which must be a necessity, considering the projected torque. The new 'box should be capable enough to cope with it.
After all those buys, I'm left a bit empty pocketed, so the plan now is to put the engine in it, couple the gearbox, shorten and balance the propshaft, and make it running. Then I'll address the suspension issues and be done with it for a while. I'm a school teacher nowadays, albeit in a very expensive private school, so I don't want to put ambitions ahead of the budget. See if it works, delivers and be happy with it. Then sort out the rusty bodywork, which isn't really bad apart from the sunroof, and perhaps supercharge it.
But that's then, and I'm now, looking forward to all this nice work to be done. No pics, sorry.
Second job was to make it running again by cleaning fueling system, removing the fuel tank and cleaning it of pulp that was once diesel fuel. There was also about 1.5 kilos of sand in there, which wasn't really a great surprise. I also found out that the lump was actually a lowly XD2S instead of XD3T, which I thought before; the same found in Sierras of that age. Then we put in new battery, and got the engine running. Turned out the radiator thought it was actually colander, and lost all water in a matter of minutes (I only put water in it for the first start). I wasn't impressed and glued it up with so called cold welding residue.
Otherwise it was trouble free, and I did some miles in it before realising that I hated the rattly cement mixer full of mad cats and nails, that some idjit called the engine. Actually, I never wanted the diesel from the start, but first experience has proven it to be unbearable. A week ago I've driven it to my friend's garage for close inspection, but even without it I knew the suspension was all borked.
Then I went about to local scrapyards to find a suitable engine. My first thought was of early Audi V8 engines since I know them well, preferably a 32V 3.6 over 4.2 for it's sweeter, lazier torque range (great low-down and mid-range, sufficient top end). However, since I know them well, I also knew their imminent design flaws, so I had my reservations. Most of the engines for sale, though, were dismantled, and I obviously wanted it to be complete.
One day, I stumbled upon a freshly delivered-from-Germany Audi A8 D2 equipped with 298bhp ABH engine in a scrapyard dedicated to Audis and Mercs, just being dismantled. It's quite a complicated design, however, relieved from many of the initial faults. I was quite excited and wanted to get it, despite the odometer showing 172K kilometers (106, 000 miles), which is quite a bit for that engine. One of the scrappers asked me that they could put it directly in my A8, and I said there wasn't any A8's in my stable, but an old french barge. He then joked that I should put in a larger lump, 'like this old bugger', and kicked the nearby engine block, complete with heads and all needed, extracted from a 1995 S500 W140.
Turns out they struggled to sell that M119, which I always admired as an engineering marvel, but knew little about. Perhaps cars equipped with it are too reliable to break, I thought. And 'no replacement for displacement' is always what I thought. 5 litre 324bhp Le Mans legend is what to go for, isn't it? So I spent a couple of evenings reading PDFs and internet stuff about it, and made a decision. I now own a german lump and a french rustbucket. Good.
Two days ago I bought a 3.23:1 E34 525 gearbox and open diff to go with it, after understanding that the original 'box won't do, and today contacted the excellent people at Bird's Garage for Quaife differential, which must be a necessity, considering the projected torque. The new 'box should be capable enough to cope with it.
After all those buys, I'm left a bit empty pocketed, so the plan now is to put the engine in it, couple the gearbox, shorten and balance the propshaft, and make it running. Then I'll address the suspension issues and be done with it for a while. I'm a school teacher nowadays, albeit in a very expensive private school, so I don't want to put ambitions ahead of the budget. See if it works, delivers and be happy with it. Then sort out the rusty bodywork, which isn't really bad apart from the sunroof, and perhaps supercharge it.
But that's then, and I'm now, looking forward to all this nice work to be done. No pics, sorry.
Thanks chaps, as available, I will. My goal is to make it a thoroughly enjoyable and interesting everyday performance analogue car, and I'd be happy with it being slower or not stickier to the apex than anything else equipped with 300+bhp. This is a car to put in an occasional large powerslide on a roundabout on my way to things. And a smile on my face. No more.
Edited by Veeayt on Tuesday 4th April 18:07
Dr G said:
My next-door neighbours, small world.
I too am glad to see this thread back to life!
Thank you all. I too am glad to see this thread back to life!
Bird's comes up as my closest Quaife dealership, mere 4,500+ miles away. That's not true, of course - there must be loads of those in continental Europe. They are pleasant people to be in touch with, though. Anyway, it's quite an expensive thing at 700 quid for an old 'box. Hopefully the craftsmanship will judge the price.
I'm going to be on hold with the project at least until autumn, since my son and I have to be in Italy for a month or two, and that pretty much depletes my budget
I'll try and weld engine mount points and arrange the transmission during summer without spending any dough further. It will be all DIY jobs. Math shows that I would need at least 5K to get the drivetrain running at that, so I'm exactly 5K short now. Still, I shall finish this project until spring 2018, no matter what.RoverP6B said:
A very interesting project... always had a soft spot for the old 505. By the way, you speak very good and characteristically idiomatic English - anyone would think you'd spent donkey's years rubbing shoulders with fellow petrolheads in England... have you? Or just picked it up through the internet?
Yeah, mainly picked my spoken English here. Pistonheads - learning matters Offline though, I speak with thick generalized American accent Largely thanks to Hollywood, I should think. So I would sound funny. Never actually been in an English-speaking country. Came on Pistonheads because Flemke mentioned his thread on Evo pages around 10 years ago.vsonix said:
Earlier version M52B28 would be a better choice than the M50B25 I think if you like the torque. And no harder to fit either.
Yes, they are slightly better engines than M50's in the block design department. I don't mean any peripherals. However, they are aluminium, so can't hold boosted power. The M50 block can hold anything up to 1000bhp. However, I don't like straight sixes as much as V8's, so...Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff